Closed Beta Jade Discussion

[GLoRToR]

Maybe it's because I suck but Scorpion seems like a horrible matchup for Jade...Anybody else struggling really bad against him??

Yes. Scorpion is The Anti-Zoning Character of the game. His skillset by default is to get around zoning so that he can bop Sub-Zero better.
You need to avoid trying to zone Scorpion. Jade should be having tools to deal with him in the final version of the game.
Top players strongly agree that her rushdown tools need a bit of adjustment.

 

[gitblame]

I am struggling today vs oponnents who can flawless block B3434 consistently. Has someone been able to lab this? Can she do something except cutting string off? I saw some people doing B343 BF2 but I don't know if they do it for this purpouse or just because punishing BF2 is super weird and people treat it like it's safe for now.

 

[GLoRToR]

I am struggling today vs oponnents who can flawless block B3434 consistently. Has someone been able to lab this? Can she do something except cutting string off? I saw some people doing B343 BF2 but I don't know if they do it for this purpouse or just because punishing BF2 is super weird and people treat it like it's safe for now.

Did you try asking REO?

 

[gitblame]

His chat has like 600 people now. Hard to get noticed XD

 

[GLoRToR]

His chat has like 600 people now. Hard to get noticed XD

I'll go ask him for you hold on.

 

[GLoRToR]

His chat has like 600 people now. Hard to get noticed XD

Staggers, he says.

 

[Espio]

I am struggling today vs oponnents who can flawless block B3434 consistently. Has someone been able to lab this? Can she do something except cutting string off? I saw some people doing B343 BF2 but I don't know if they do it for this purpouse or just because punishing BF2 is super weird and people treat it like it's safe for now.

Jade players really gotta mix it up. That string can be staggered at two points and safe plus you can end the first three hits in pole vault, go for throw, walk back and down 4 or back 1. If they are looking to flawless block punish then they literally cannot also simultaneously be dealing with your plethora of options. I need/want to see more back 3 staggers. They are so good. An 11 frame mid that is -2? People got the flawless block down pat cause there's not enough mind games being applied by the Jade players. Key to success a lot of times isn't even being risky, it's making sure the opponent doesn't get too comfortable with your tactics. The more variables at play the more Jade players will be able to harass with the full string too.

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

I think you misunderstand the term "punishable". If there is a way to hit a move before you can block after using the move, that move is punishable. It doesn't require the move to be open to punish from every single move in the game, if a lot of characters have a tool which can punish it then it's punishable. If a few do, it's selectively punishable. If none, then it's safe.



When your character's primary purpose is zoning and a rushdown character can zone you because you have to fear him rushing you down at full screen because your main counterzoning tool is full combo punishable, you aren't being contradictive to expect better.


It shouldn't. It should be safe to it. Which means its activation should take fewer frames than Nomad Dash can reach you. Kabal would still be, in his current skillset, vastly superior upclose. This wouldn't make Jade imbalanced, this would make her able to contend with Kabal: He would have to work on getting in and she would have to work on keeping him out.


No.

The idea I'm trying to present here is that Glow should be in the -8f range on its activation so that not a lot of things can punish it at range. Preferably not even Scorpion's teleport.
At the same time you can't just glow in people's face because 8 frames are plenty to bop someone.

If you are being zoned out by Kabal then you are playing the match up wrong. Jade can already contend with Kabal well. Glow is an anti zoning tool. Not an anti rushdown tool. Its meant to give you the edge over other zoners. Not keep rushdown character out more, that's what your zoning tools are for. You can react to any of Kabals projectiles with Glow and not be punished for it.

 

[Vagrant]

I will say I'm really bummed that the jade beta thread has been completely centered around this bickering session.

Espio thanks for at least breaking some of her stuff down. That was more the direction I hoped the thread was going to take. It would be nice if we could limit the "is she bad, or is she good" discussions to one single thread and discuss what jade players should actually be doing in the other threads. Maybe mods could move the forums in that direction for MK11, though I understand the site is not just for competitive tech talk.

I don't want to silence people who want to talk about her strength vs the rest of the cast but I do want to prioritize discussion that is focused around using what she DOES have effectively.

 

[GLoRToR]

If you are being zoned out by Kabal then you are playing the match up wrong.

No, because Kabal also has zoning tools that can contend well with Jade's.

Jade can already contend with Kabal well.

She can, the matchup might be slightly in Kabal's favour because he does more damage, he has the same type of air projectile that's more plus, and he has his FB which is a match changer.

Glow is an anti zoning tool. Not an anti rushdown tool. Its meant to give you the edge over other zoners. Not keep rushdown character out more, that's what your zoning tools are for.

I never said otherwise. You seem confused on what I'm saying here.
I'm saying that I think Jade's Glow needs to be slightly less negative.

You can react to any of Kabals projectiles with Glow and not be punished for it.

Which means you used a vastly unsafe move and he'll recover sooner and have the advantage to get in on you. Making Glow slightly less negative will make it slightly better in the Neutral.

 

[GLoRToR]

I will say I'm really bummed that the jade beta thread has been completely centered around this bickering session.

Espio thanks for at least breaking some of her stuff down. That was more the direction I hoped the thread was going to take. It would be nice if we could limit the "is she bad, or is she good" discussions to one single thread and discuss what jade players should actually be doing in the other threads. Maybe mods could move the forums in that direction for MK11, though I understand the site is not just for competitive tech talk.

I don't want to silence people who want to talk about her strength vs the rest of the cast but I do want to prioritize discussion that is focused around using what she DOES have effectively.

I almost fully agree with you.
The reason some of us are discussing her strength is that the beta is the last margin where you can still call out certain things. The first patch is a while after release and we'd rather not have glaring issues right on release.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Can you bait a Kabal or Scorp into nomad dashing or teleporting with the parry? It looks like it has a similar startup to glow, would be funny if you could punish them that way

Yes lol.. when you equip low blast that alone checks kabal on the ground. If he’s jump happy or throwing disc just glow. I started baiting kabal dash pretty much instant once I equipped blast

 

[xKhaoTik]

All I know is jade makes people salty. On one end, it’s the jade players who think she’s trash. On the other end, it’s the salty players who are getting bopped by Jade players.

The beta salt is real

 

[gitblame]

Stop. First impressions were like this. Kabal has 40% restands. Jade has 16% punishes. Of course poeple at first thought she is not that good. That's natural cycle. We bitch about things. Then we realize the things are not that bad and we stop bitching about things.

I think she's great. Like I haven't event thought about maining Jade before, now I am. If Reptile is not in, she will be my green character to play. Definetly I will keep her in my team.

 

[trufenix]

Oh imagine that, came in here without my ignore on to find Glortor shitting up yet another have forum.

Im a huge Jade fan but I suck who wants to help me?

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

No, because Kabal also has zoning tools that can contend well with Jade's.


She can, the matchup might be slightly in Kabal's favour because he does more damage, he has the same type of air projectile that's more plus, and he has his FB which is a match changer.


I never said otherwise. You seem confused on what I'm saying here.
I'm saying that I think Jade's Glow needs to be slightly less negative.


Which means you used a vastly unsafe move and he'll recover sooner and have the advantage to get in on you. Making Glow slightly less negative will make it slightly better in the Neutral.

If Kabal throws a projectile at you and you react with Glow how are you at a disadvantage? Kabal is still full screen and you have Glow up.

 

[Flawless2]

If Kabal throws a projectile at you and you react with Glow how are you at a disadvantage? Kabal is still full screen and you have Glow up.

I think he means depending on when you throw glow out on react, they can potentially throw out nomad dash before you recover and are able to block

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

I think he means depending on when you throw glow out on react, they can potentially throw out nomad dash before you recover and are able to block

If that's the case you deserve to be dashed on for having such shit reaction time lol.

 

[Bronzefist]

How do u stay on the ground (delay wakeup) after being knocked down?

 

[Wrenchfarm]

I think it's totally fair to point out potential issues in the beta, after all, that is what it's for.

Jade is a really fun character who has the potential to play a very powerful space control game, there are just a few issues I think NRS should address. Nothing crazy:

I think the hit box on a few moves like F2 and the second hit of B12 should be adjusted to more accurately reflect where her staff is. I see a lot of people just jumping right through the arc of her attack.

Her damage is low and I don't think her pokes fully compensate for it. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Scarlet slightly out ranges her (for example, her sweep is just as long as Jade's, but comes out faster and doesn't need a move slot) and doesn't give up combo capability or zoning for it. Scorpion's arsenal of forward advancing sword moves and kicks also rival her poking and generally come out quicker while leading to higher rewards. I don't necessarily think they should change any of her moves range or start up, but I think they should lead to higher damage, either in the form of more combo ability, or simply a buffed shadow kick ender.

I really do believe she'll diminish over time if they don't give her something else. As people optimize their combos and start routinely nailing 25-45% off a touch (with KB help), and Jade is by design limited to around 15-20%, it will be harder and harder to keep up. Her zoning isn't THAT good to make up for it.

And, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I think they should take another look at her KBs. Other than the universal D2/throw ones and her 124 string, I think the others are extremely luck based. 3 of her potentially game changing moves should not depend on the opponent being asleep -- especially when Kabal, Scorpion, and Baraka all have scoutable, reliable KBs that can be used with precision (and that's just the beta characters, take what we've seen on Kombat Kasts with Sub-Zero, Kang, and others, much more skillbased and reliable KBs)

The B12 string not comboing properly online is a bug that should be fixed. People shouldn't be able to jump out of the gap in F21.

There is a lot to learn and adapt to. No one should be writing off a character based on their performance in the beta. But, some of these issues can be identified and I hope NRS is paying attention to them.

 

[cavemold]

Overall I find her very meh . I like her look but play style is not very fun for me

 

[santanabar]

How do u stay on the ground (delay wakeup) after being knocked down?

Hold L2 (hope they change it)

 

[Skylight1]

You seem to be mistaken about my intentions.
Which is no surprise because I've already explained why I brought up her frame data.
Seems you have trouble reading.
And trust me, the discord is going to be full of people who actually complain.
Not me. I'll be too busy labbing.

Where's this discord at? I'd love to join it and really educate people on Jade and why she isn't good at all because this is essentially like me reliving MK9 Jade all over again and MKX Necromancer Shinnok again....

 

[prd689]

At first I was frustrated playing Jade, but have overcome that and adapted to her style. Despite not doing giant midscreen combos, or corner combos, she is very good.

My only complaint would be hitboxes not being created equal between characters. Her f2 and b12 are such giant overheads, but hitboxes on them are so bad. I guess the same could be said for bf2 in the corner whiffing like 2 or the 4 or however many hits there are.

Other than a few hitbox issues, I'm really enjoying playing with her.

 

[Agilaz]

Does reversal Shadow Kick punish Kabal's hook restand? 12f special to punish -12 blocked restand, but the knockback was pretty huge from what i remember.

can't try it myself right now but i've been wondering about this