Closed Beta Jade Discussion

[gitblame]

I tried to do this, but I couldn't

 

[xWildx]

I was starting to come around on Jade, but then I got hit with a 37% Kabal combo that ended in a restand.

All from comparable range to anything Jade can do.

Yes, let me smack you with this 15% stick, Kabal, that’ll teach you.

 

[GLoRToR]

If Kabal throws a projectile at you and you react with Glow how are you at a disadvantage? Kabal is still full screen and you have Glow up.

Glow takes longer to stop recovering than Kabal takes ND to come out.
If Kabal throws a projectile at full screen and you activate glow, he has ample time to tap forwards and dash in at you and he'll be anywhere from sweep to in your face.
We want to avoid this, by making Glow a bit safer.

 

[GLoRToR]

Where's this discord at? I'd love to join it and really educate people on Jade and why she isn't good at all because this is essentially like me reliving MK9 Jade all over again and MKX Necromancer Shinnok again....

I have no idea currently. Maybe it isn't even up yet. We'll see.
@Espio ?

 

[Espio]

I have no idea currently. Maybe it isn't even up yet. We'll see.
@Espio ?

I don't know if there is one or not. I did character discords back for injustice and will never do them again and for the record, they have the same or worse complaining. People need to learn to ignore people.

 

[GLoRToR]

People need to learn to ignore people.

People need to learn to understand people. And to read.

The amount of times I've said the very same things to the very same accusations because people can't understand written text is astronomical.

When someone "complains" (has a problem with something) they usually perceive it as a problem. It's either a problem or it isn't. Facts are hard to argue with.

Insulting someone who's complaining is tantamount to shouting at the wind to stop blowing.

 

[StormGoddess]

Ok, so playing Jade exclusively for this beta weekend, i had fun learning her and can't wait for the full game with a training mode. That said while fun , she seems....incomplete???
I think she can be good in the right hands and may just not be a beginner friendly character but her gameplay design seems confusing and lacking.

Maybe she isnt suppose to be what i assume (a space control anti-zoning character ) while her anti zoning is ok, her buttons are slow and the areas that she can control-baraka,skarlet and Kabal can match if not best her in that space by having the same or longer normals but they also comes out faster. On top of that her damage doesn't compare.
if she doesn't have damage or high combo potential outside of the corner(she has good corner carry)her buttons should have good priority IMO


her vault cancels dont warrant taking up a slot by themselves IMO.

It functions essentially like Laura's or Kens v-skill dashes in SFV. its extremely unsafe and doesnt lead into a combo of true + frames. Its seems to be false pressure and shenanigans. i guess at best it give Jade a run at the cost of a bar of defense.

it already cost a bar of defense so you can't even use it like Ken and Laura(its just a regular move for them), so either just have vault have that cancel ability and take a bar of defense to cancel or equip vault cancel taking a slot and seriously buff the cancels .

So i know that this is a beta , i ll reserve judgment until the final release.
also some of her krushing blow requirements are wack...

i know many think she's not fun but i did have fun.
it also helps that i absolutely LOVE her visual design

so until the final release
#BUFFKOTALSBRIDE

 

[Bronzefist]

I think it's totally fair to point out potential issues in the beta, after all, that is what it's for.

Jade is a really fun character who has the potential to play a very powerful space control game, there are just a few issues I think NRS should address. Nothing crazy:

I think the hit box on a few moves like F2 and the second hit of B12 should be adjusted to more accurately reflect where her staff is. I see a lot of people just jumping right through the arc of her attack.

Her damage is low and I don't think her pokes fully compensate for it. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Scarlet slightly out ranges her (for example, her sweep is just as long as Jade's, but comes out faster and doesn't need a move slot) and doesn't give up combo capability or zoning for it. Scorpion's arsenal of forward advancing sword moves and kicks also rival her poking and generally come out quicker while leading to higher rewards. I don't necessarily think they should change any of her moves range or start up, but I think they should lead to higher damage, either in the form of more combo ability, or simply a buffed shadow kick ender.

I really do believe she'll diminish over time if they don't give her something else. As people optimize their combos and start routinely nailing 25-45% off a touch (with KB help), and Jade is by design limited to around 15-20%, it will be harder and harder to keep up. Her zoning isn't THAT good to make up for it.

And, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I think they should take another look at her KBs. Other than the universal D2/throw ones and her 124 string, I think the others are extremely luck based. 3 of her potentially game changing moves should not depend on the opponent being asleep -- especially when Kabal, Scorpion, and Baraka all have scoutable, reliable KBs that can be used with precision (and that's just the beta characters, take what we've seen on Kombat Kasts with Sub-Zero, Kang, and others, much more skillbased and reliable KBs)

The B12 string not comboing properly online is a bug that should be fixed. People shouldn't be able to jump out of the gap in F21.

There is a lot to learn and adapt to. No one should be writing off a character based on their performance in the beta. But, some of these issues can be identified and I hope NRS is paying attention to them.

I was starting to come around on Jade, but then I got hit with a 37% Kabal combo that ended in a restand.

All from comparable range to anything Jade can do.

Yes, let me smack you with this 15% stick, Kabal, that’ll teach you.

These are all my thoughts and experiences as well. It's VERY frustrating working your ass off to keep Scorpion and Kabal in Jade's optimal footsie range, only to have either of them guess correctly once and you're eating a 25% minimum combo. Plus I'm not totally convicted she really has that big of a footsie range advantage over them. I've had some Kabal strings hit my right through my b+2 wiggle stick, and take huge damage from the ensuing combo or krushing blow.

I'm still a shit player, so maybe these match ups will increase with my experience, but as it stands right now her low combo/punish damage is pushing me away from the character.

I'm sure there are buffs/changes on the way, so I'll be interested to see how she turns out in later builds (assuming more betas). I'll revisit her again and hope for the best.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Jade players really gotta mix it up. That string can be staggered at two points and safe plus you can end the first three hits in pole vault, go for throw, walk back and down 4 or back 1. If they are looking to flawless block punish then they literally cannot also simultaneously be dealing with your plethora of options. I need/want to see more back 3 staggers. They are so good. An 11 frame mid that is -2? People got the flawless block down pat cause there's not enough mind games being applied by the Jade players. Key to success a lot of times isn't even being risky, it's making sure the opponent doesn't get too comfortable with your tactics. The more variables at play the more Jade players will be able to harass with the full string too.

It's probably just me and/or the lack of a practice mode, but I find it really hard to stagger B3434 because of the way you have to input it. So I find myself mashing as fast as I can just to get it to come out. Thus, I always get the full string or just B3 (if I didn't mash fast enough).

I really need practice mode dammit. lol

 

[Espio]

It's probably just me and/or the lack of a practice mode, but I find it really hard to stagger B3434 because of the way you have to input it. So I find myself mashing as fast as I can just to get it to come out. Thus, I always get the full string or just B3 (if I didn't mash fast enough).

I really need practice mode dammit. lol

I think the problem you guys have is you are rushing the inputs. You don't have to rush them. Precision comes from finesse. Also Back 3 the easy -2 stagger is literally just back 3 by itself. That should be easy. The other one you just hit the three buttons. Just have to calm down and a lot of this will come to you.

 

[TaserFace007]

I really liked her as a zoning character in this game. With the up, down and air projectiles added, she was a lot of fun to play and she worked well. Additionally, everyone else had some long reaching attacks so they had decent ways to get in and it wasn't an Injustice type thing where you just had to crouch and inch your way in if the other guy was using projectiles - it was still a well paced fighting game when using them.

Any other loadouts were kind of useless, though. She needs some combos and mid screen popups. The whole point of a variation system is that there should be more than one viable variation and she doesn't have one. If she's going to be a mid screen footsies character who punishes the other player, she needs to be able to actually punish them instead of slightly inconveniencing them. Making her pole vault or fidget spinner moves pop up on a MB and have them be exclusionary with the projectile abilities or have them cancel out her projectile immunity when equipped would give her a second playstyle.

It's good to have her combo potential suck when she's so great from long range, but if you don't select the abilities which make her great from long range, you need to add in that combo potential to compensate for it or else you get … what she was without them.

 

[GLoRToR]

I really liked her as a zoning character in this game. With the up, down and air projectiles added, she was a lot of fun to play and she worked well. Additionally, everyone else had some long reaching attacks so they had decent ways to get in and it wasn't an Injustice type thing where you just had to crouch and inch your way in if the other guy was using projectiles - it was still a well paced fighting game when using them.

Any other loadouts were kind of useless, though. She needs some combos and mid screen popups. The whole point of a variation system is that there should be more than one viable variation and she doesn't have one. If she's going to be a mid screen footsies character who punishes the other player, she needs to be able to actually punish them instead of slightly inconveniencing them. Making her pole vault or fidget spinner moves pop up on a MB and have them be exclusionary with the projectile abilities or have them cancel out her projectile immunity when equipped would give her a second playstyle.

It's good to have her combo potential suck when she's so great from long range, but if you don't select the abilities which make her great from long range, you need to add in that combo potential to compensate for it or else you get … what she was without them.

QFT.
This is exactly what REO said too.

 

[TaserFace007]

Well, if he agrees with me then REO is a goddamned genius.

 

[DDustiNN]

I used the teleport, the extra combos, and the air glaive. With those I felt like I had tools for everything. I did best at mid-range or with corner pressure. Scorpion up close is a 50/50 beast and often made my brain explode. So I finally went and learned how to play him, then I started doing much better at blocking his strings.

Jade doesn’t have super combo potential, but she definitely has tools to win. Lots of stuff to keep your opponent guessing. I did quite well with her the majority of the time, especially last night and tonight. I also do much better when I’m playing offensively rather than defensively.

She reminds me of Mileena in MKX. Not very safe, but very fun and rewarding.

 

[Marinjuana]

I didn't want to make my Jade zoning-focused as much as I wanted to have her be defensive and be effective in the corner. I feel that her base kit gave her good neutral control in the beta. So for my loadouts I was going for a better pressure/mixups and Deadly Assassin(The extra strings) was always in my loadout. B2124 in particular was extremely useful as a hit confirm, mixup, high reward punish, etc.

One thing that was clear to me was that Jade lacked good ways to pressure with some of her strings with her base kit. You can only do so much with staggers and cancels into her normal specials. B343 and 212 were good but there were several kustom moves that gave her a little more there.

The low projectile was a nice little mixup but I think it was a little on the slow side for that and I didn't use it too much in my load outs, but obviously it's a good projectile. Delia's Dance gave you a nice fast but unsafe low that was +1 on hit, allowing for pressure. But Delia's Dance had a pitiful hitbox and could have inconsistencies comboing at range, I think if they touch it up a bit it will be a lot better. The polesmash was also a low when not amplified but I think the main draw there was the amplify for teleport. The main one I settled on for this was PoleVault which has a lot of utility as an ender, for the run-in to -5 mid and as a mixup because of how it elevates Jade's hurtbox. I used the cancel a lot early on but it was a little much to use without practice mode, I did feel like it was useful but I honestly can't say anything about the frames.

And then I settled in with the classic Shadow Kick, which I found useful for more consistent positioning. I used Shadow Kick Amp all the time so it was pretty nice. I actually got some good mileage out of the KB from Shadow Kick(3 kicks in a row), you can do stuff like end a combo in the amplified kick and then do another on Oki and if it hits the opponent will be in the danger zone for 230 damage. I absolutely love this, it's a viable strategy that resembles classic Jade spamming Shadow Kicks.

Random note, her projectile reflect is maybe not as bad as it seems because the opponent can get hit by the amplified version and it can reflect air projectiles and whatnot but it's pretty slow. I also won a match on her forward throw KB earlier, it was rad.

Overall I had a lot of fun playing her and can't wait to try her out in the main game. I felt like she had a ton of depth to her neutral game with unique aspects like the projectile immunity, the unique strings and her punishes.

 

[NothingPersonal]

So, the beta is over. My general thoughts on Jade didn't change much. Her zoning, considering glow, is fine. Her range is fine. Her strings are also fine. Her overall design as a midrange spaciing character is fine. The cons:the most unbalanced aspect of her is the risk/reward factor. Her best tools, the ranged normals, are unsafe and do little damage. My solution would be to either speed up her normals, make them safe and remove gaps in the strings, since none of her specials are safe for you to cancel in. Or increase either increase the damage of her normals, or give some of them juggle properties, maybe b12, f4, etc. Another cool thing would be to make the poll vault -2-3, so you could make a variation that would be safe up close. Maybe make ot take two slots to compensate.
These are my thoughts overall. I enjoyed playing her and i'll look into her obce the game comes out to see what the final product is.

 

[MK9]

Her up close game is to weak, I mean give her at least a poke that is semi useful. The start up is to slow. Scorpion stager hit or d3 up close she has nothing to counter.

I swear a landed d3 was s free throw with scorp, I even got throw out of my fatal blow once.

I’m going to hate online play, characters are made with a preset, if u use a modify preset I won’t be playing you.

 

[hatyr]

Day 1 of beta, didn't care for her really. Same with the next day, the next, and the day after that. Last day of beta, something clicked and played nothing but Jade all day. Had a warming up period (particularly with those B3434 style inputs) but once I got into it she's probably my favorite out of the 5. Will try her undoubtedly at release.

 

[jmt]

Ill echo the thoughts that almost everyone has shared here. I like her, she’s a lot of fun but as the game sits right now in the beta Jade isn’t viable at the highest level. Excited to get the full game. Jade feels like a side character that you only use for certain matchups that she excels at. Can’t see her being a “main” right now. She 100% needs improvements.

 

[Skylight1]

Ok, so playing Jade exclusively for this beta weekend, i had fun learning her and can't wait for the full game with a training mode. That said while fun , she seems....incomplete???
I think she can be good in the right hands and may just not be a beginner friendly character but her gameplay design seems confusing and lacking.

Maybe she isnt suppose to be what i assume (a space control anti-zoning character ) while her anti zoning is ok, her buttons are slow and the areas that she can control-baraka,skarlet and Kabal can match if not best her in that space by having the same or longer normals but they also comes out faster. On top of that her damage doesn't compare.
if she doesn't have damage or high combo potential outside of the corner(she has good corner carry)her buttons should have good priority IMO


her vault cancels dont warrant taking up a slot by themselves IMO.

It functions essentially like Laura's or Kens v-skill dashes in SFV. its extremely unsafe and doesnt lead into a combo of true + frames. Its seems to be false pressure and shenanigans. i guess at best it give Jade a run at the cost of a bar of defense.

it already cost a bar of defense so you can't even use it like Ken and Laura(its just a regular move for them), so either just have vault have that cancel ability and take a bar of defense to cancel or equip vault cancel taking a slot and seriously buff the cancels .

So i know that this is a beta , i ll reserve judgment until the final release.
also some of her krushing blow requirements are wack...

i know many think she's not fun but i did have fun.
it also helps that i absolutely LOVE her visual design

so until the final release
#BUFFKOTALSBRIDE

I can sum it all up for you within one word.. Gimmick. She's a huge gimmick and what do we with gimmicks? We laugh at them and go on to something that's worthwhile. She's becoming a harlequin at this point =/.

 

[Skylight1]

Her up close game is to weak, I mean give her at least a poke that is semi useful. The start up is to slow. Scorpion stager hit or d3 up close she has nothing to counter.

I swear a landed d3 was s free throw with scorp, I even got throw out of my fatal blow once.

I’m going to hate online play, characters are made with a preset, if u use a modify preset I won’t be playing you.

Everyone is relying super heavily on her B3434 before the game even comes out so that move is already going to be blown up before the game can reach a month into it's lifespan. And I agree... If someone is using custom presets, I'm automatically declining their challenge. If you can't commit and play to the built-in variations then what's the point at this rate?

 

[Skylight1]

My thoughts on playing Jade exclusively throughout the entire beta was man is she a crock of crap or what! I should've taken down my Jade frames like I did with Baraka for the stress test but I didn't but for what I remember, only a few of her regular normals was plus (S4 was plus 3 on block but is a high, S1 is plus if I'm not mistaken at -1 but is yet again another high.) and from what I gathered she onLy has a few combo starters: 21 (being a mid-mid) and B212(4) and with all of this they all feel slow outside of 21. She doesn't have a midscreen presence whatsoever and having to rely on B12 and F4 is shoddy at best. They both have slow start-up frames and for the abysmal damage you get off of them, they serve no purpose other than checking your opponent and keeping them honest but in actuality, it'd be best to use B3434 followed by deadly butterfly (BF2) to really start anything.

I played exclusively (on purpose) the pure rushdown variation which is Edenian Assassin. Edenian Assassin consisted of the B2124 string (which everyone uses in their custom modified variations) and for good reason as it isn't a bad tool to have in your disposal but shouldn't be abused outside of wiggle stick (B2) to check your opponent and gain its max range. This variation also contains 322 an 322D1 which are pretty decent strings (322 being -5 on block and 322D1 being -12) and they lead nicely into deadly butterfly. The downside for some of us is that it doesn't contain the projectile immunity nor does it contain the super zoning tools of Air glaive and the Edenian Spark (DB3 it does however contain DB2 which is a projectile reflector which I used for instinctively for Kabal and his sawblade zoning. Vast majority of my wins came from this variation and while yes you don't have the core tools in her tool-kit, you still can achieve a lot with this variation though admittedly, it is harder if you're interested in her as a zoner.

Damage is a huge issue and I don't even need to go into details about it. I will say that her crushing blow was registering for me two different percentages. One time it registered for me as 29% and then the other was at 32%. I don't know if anyone else was experiencing this but it was weird (I have a picture I just need to get it off of my xbox).

All in all, I wasn't impressed with a lot of what she has: yes, she may have zoning and she may have range but in a game that is heavily neutral based and footsie based, she doesn't crack the charts whatsoever and it's much wiser to play Skarlet or even Kabal who can do what she does for free and even achieve higher damage than what she can dish out right now. Range means absolutely nothing if you can't get any damage for it.

@AfroBreezy @GLoRToR

 

[DarksydeDash]

In the final build, I really hope they give us her staff grab. That's one of her legacy moves and I'm surprised it didn't return.

 

[DarksydeDash]

It's probably just me and/or the lack of a practice mode, but I find it really hard to stagger B3434 because of the way you have to input it. So I find myself mashing as fast as I can just to get it to come out. Thus, I always get the full string or just B3 (if I didn't mash fast enough).

I really need practice mode dammit. lol

I swear that special canceling B3434 is very strict too so you're not alone.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Run canceling strings with staggers in them like B3434, F41, F34, looks to be really good because if they are trying to flawless block, you can reset your offense and still be able to hit confirm into pole vault