What's new

Match-up Discussion Catwoman match up chart

BartenderJeeves

Almost a bartender, but not exactly a bartender.
No, you're probably right that she loses vs more than half the cast and wins almost no matchups.

I'm just saying as a community we should be embarassed that we let a character like that sort of dominate our tournament scene (next to theo) because in something like the Street Fighter community, we would never see that.
This isn't Street Fighter and the fact that 16 Bit constantly outplays his opponents makes his character dominant.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Well let's be honest, she doesn't even have as many winning matches as CYBORG (Grundy, Frost, Green Lantern, and Joker among possibly others,) and probably loses less too (I'm not sure Cyborg has 15 losing matchups) yet the community is good enough at the Cyborg matchup to make sure he has never gotten top 8.

Considering we can shut Catwoman down even harder, we really should all learn the matchup better and actually do it.

Kudos to Bit though for winning with a char that is literally worse than Cyborg, that takes a lot of skill.
Maybe 16 bit is better than anyone who uses Cyborg. Also, if you look at Bit's path, he isn't getting any of CW's super hard MUs until later in the tournament.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Maybe 16 bit is better than anyone who uses Cyborg. Also, if you look at Bit's path, he isn't getting any of CW's super hard MUs until later in the tournament.
Player skill has nothing to do with placing in a tournament. It's all based on how good the character is. Why would you even argue with him?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Well let's be honest, she doesn't even have as many winning matches as CYBORG (Grundy, Frost, Green Lantern, and Joker among possibly others,) and probably loses less too (I'm not sure Cyborg has 15 losing matchups) yet the community is good enough at the Cyborg matchup to make sure he has never gotten top 8.

Considering we can shut Catwoman down even harder, we really should all learn the matchup better and actually do it.

Kudos to Bit though for winning with a char that is literally worse than Cyborg, that takes a lot of skill.
Since when the fuck did Cyborg beat Joker?
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Maybe 16 bit is better than anyone who uses Cyborg. Also, if you look at Bit's path, he isn't getting any of CW's super hard MUs until later in the tournament.
Yeah but she loses to HALF of the ENTIRE CAST, including basically all of the top tiers. That's pretty fucking terrible you know? Are you saying a character THAT BAD should really be winning this much? There is a 50% chance that Bit runs into a bad matchup every tournament match he gets, can you imagine trying to play through a tournament with a character like that, and then consistently placing better than you currently do? Do you think you could do that? Do you think that should even be possible?

Now he is.
Haha I respect this post.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Yeah but she loses to HALF of the ENTIRE CAST, including basically all of the top tiers. That's pretty fucking terrible you know? Are you saying a character THAT BAD should really be winning this much? There is a 50% chance that Bit runs into a bad matchup every tournament match he gets, can you imagine trying to play through a tournament with a character like that, and then consistently placing better than you currently do? Do you think you could do that? Do you think that should even be possible?



Haha I respect this post.
He didn't run into aqua, bane or sinestro. 4-6s are winnable, especially for a good player.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
He didn't run into aqua, bane or sinestro. 4-6s are winnable, especially for a good player.
Of course 4-6s are winnable, but nobody is perfect.

Are you saying that Bit is so much better than you, that he uses a considerably worse character, consistently places better, and there's nothing the community can do about it because Bit is such a godlike player?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I think WC, coming from Shang, can relate hella to Bit. Both chars weren't the worst but didn't exactly have an easy time against the top tiers and both had/have talented players that win disadvantageous matchups and thrive on matchup experience on their behalf and inexperience on the opponent's.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Of course 4-6s are winnable, but nobody is perfect.

Are you saying that Bit is so much better than you, that he uses a considerably worse character, consistently places better, and there's nothing the community can do about it because Bit is such a godlike player?
I mean, 16 bit placed two slots higher than me at MLG and one slot below me at SCR. Bit's path: 4x4, Big boi, Fox, Tyrant, Whitboy, Theo. All of those MUs are fine except Theo. It is what it is. If Bit had to play me or theo earlier than he might not have placed. Likewise if I had Ducky's path (Whiteboi and then King) I probably would not have placed. That's just how it works.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
The main reason NW beats CW is that he destroys her on wakeup. It's really the main reason why a lot of these matches are 4-6 instead of 5-5. People really don't take advantage of being able to vortex her. The footsies are probably about even in a lot of these mu's. If she has no scratches she and gets knocked down she could be done.

That being said this mu chart is bullshit because she beats scorp 7-3.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
I just figure she out footsies him pretty bad since his backwalk speed is awful and his normals kind of suck. She even goes under b+1 with b+3 easily. Plus I don't know what he's supposed to do about her jumping back. Who knows though.

@4x4lo8o actually plays this MU pretty good on Ares' end. He was blocking my usual shenanigans. He said he actually had MU exp against her.
Why don't I get a notification when people tag me?


I really hate this matchup, I think it's potential 3-7 territory for Ares.

As you guys have described, the footsies game isn't good at all for Ares. But there's not really a viable zoning or keep away game for Ares to play either so Ares is sorta left with nothing to do in the match up. For me it basically comes down to put her in the corner, and if you can't you don't win.

It seems like it should be a zoning match up for Ares, but fireball is slow enough that it's pretty easy to evade, crouch, jump, or b3 under every single time. And the recovery is long enough that she gets a free dash afterwards. Straight sword can slow her down if she's really recklessly trying to dash in but most of the time she'll just crouch it and even if it hit Ares doesn't get much and you don't get another one for 9 seconds. So straight Axe ends up being the only effective zoning tool he has. It can't be evaded or b3'd under so she has to block it and it does good chip and good damage and a knockdown on hit. But you only get 1 every 9 seconds and she can mb catdash through(not on reaction).

Ares also can't zone at all once she's in ji2 range, she can jump over and full combo. I think she can even jump over Axe on reaction(may want to test that one, but I'm pretty sure that's what our Catwoman player is doing).

She can pretty much go to town on knockdown. Her b1/f1 strings can stuff wu Godsmack and they both advance her forward which can make punishing a problem if Ares teleports behind her. She can mn Catdash to catch any wakeup teleport that isn't meterburned. She can also blow up his teleports with jumps the same way any other character can. She has a bunch of other really stupid shit she can do against Ares wake ups but I'll let catwoman players figure it out themselves in case I don't get dq'd next time I run into 16 Bit in the brackets.

The footsies and midrange game is absolutely miserable. Ares normals are slow and short range. Ji2 is really hard to deal with. It can be hard to even touch her since she can back dash after any of her strings on block and Ares options for punishing it are terrible(he basically has to throw a projectile). b3 is hard to deal with.

Ares does pretty well if he knocks he down. He can stuff wake ups with d1/b2 for a mix up(unfortunately it's not a 50/50 and can be fuzzied and he doesn't get as much catwoman does on her mix ups, but it's good enough) or with 22 for pressure. He also does really well if she's in the corner. She doesn't have great options for getting out and is suseptible to most of his corner bullshit, although she can use trait wake up to get out of ambiguos Godsmacks for free
 
Last edited:

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
She has a bunch of other stupid shit she can do against Ares wake ups but I'll let catwoman player figure it out themselves in case I don't get dq'd next time I run into 16 Bit in the brackets.
I described you to my brother as "someone who always seems to get the shit end of situations" yesterday.
 

Cabronium

Stream monster: Qperg.
Of course 4-6s are winnable, but nobody is perfect.

Are you saying that Bit is so much better than you, that he uses a considerably worse character, consistently places better, and there's nothing the community can do about it because Bit is such a godlike player?
I think bracketology is a major factor to most players success. Maybe if Bit had to have played Cowboy and not Tyrant then it would have been different but thats not how things were set up.

So there is the option in tourney to counter pick. Something that 16bit said in his interview at MLG before GF was stating that he was not going to pick frost against Theo's Aquaman knowing that KF does a hell of a lot better against Aquaman than catwoman does. After that interview i noticed many people on twitter disagreed with what 16bit said. CDjr as my biggest reference (not to blow him up) There argument was that you should always give yourself a better chance to win with that money on the line. However, he said his alt KF would do worse in the match than CW because it is not his main or the character he feels more comfortable with.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
RIP Super into Ultra. It was never allowed to live.
That's the least of his nerfs, he would've been just as viable if that was the only change. No hard knockdown without meter, no decent setups with delayed wakeup, hands nerfed, damage nerfed, ex waterfall gimmicks nerfed, etc.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
I described you to my brother as "someone who always seems to get the shit end of situations" yesterday.
I don't mean to play the victim, but it does feel like I've had a lot shitty tournament experiences that are beyond my control. I'm sorta reconsidering going to Evo and traveling in the future.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
I don't mean to play the victim, but it does feel like I've had a lot shitty tournament experiences that are beyond my control. I'm sorta reconsidering going to Evo and traveling in the future.
I don't know why it always happens to you...

Evo isn't THAT far at least, you should still try to go.