Match-up Discussion Catwoman match up chart

[16 Bit]

NW's footsies don't matter if you can duck my mids, brah. As for CW WUs, Staff spin gets beat by Catscratch.

NW doesn't have any huge advantage over CW. Like you said there's no point in Escrima and my strengths in staff (zoning, range, decent WUs) are easily countered. Zoning gets blown up by Cat Dash, Range doesn't matter cause of your hitbox, and you can Neutral jump and punish all over my WUs.

Combine that with Catwoman's faster normals, slightly outdamaging NW, 50-50s and cause she can't jump in for free maybe, I can't see NW having an advantage.

5-5 Hold dat

Selina cannot duck his standing 2. That and ground pound are his main footsies tools. She doesn't duck his best moves.

She doesn't have infinite scratches. You only have to respect her wakeup if she has scratches. If she is neutral jumping NW on wakeup it means she's respecting his options. This is not what she wants to do. You can neutral jump her wakeup scratch, except she doesn't always have access to it.

She beats zoning on a read. Because GP is so fast it's not easy to get it out in time for the armor to be active. She has to guess and it's either punishable or he gets pressure when blocked.


Every Nightwing says the same thing and it's all a bill. "well I mean, you have options, you could jump a ground pound, you could duck a NW jump 2". True and you have options to cover those options. The point is Nightwing is the one in control. He is the one that dictates the footsies game. I want to hear something new not meta 1 bill's of goods like she ducks under the standing 1.

 

[oNe87_Kentucky]

I feel that the Joker - Catwoman matchup is without a doubt in her favor. Her normals and footsies shit on joker. She can punish any zoning tools with catdash and can raw b3 over a canister. Jokers teeth setups are free to her mb catdash. Her hitbox causes lots of whiffs left and right leaving joker with his retarded recovery. She can get under his acid wakeup for a punish eventually leaving him to just standing there and taking the mixup. All joker really has going for him is instant j3, otg mixups, and yolo parries after her j2 but hey I may be wrong so I'm willing to run a long set with you on psn or xbl.

 

[JTB123]

Gotta say I feel like the lack of MU knowledge excuse takes a lot of credit away from 16Bit, he is an extremely talented player who puts in a ton of work. I think chalking that up to "well his opponent didn't know the match up" is a little shitty.

 

[RunwayMafia]

wait Borg beats frost? Is it because she can't check IANBs because her ground thingy doesn't hit in the air?

I wouldn't necessarily say that Cyborg "beats" Killer Frost, but yeah, he can sure make the MU hard for her. He can literally go ham with the fireballs and her iceberg is kind of useless. Daggers are the only hope.

 

[Sajam]

Selina cannot duck his standing 2. That and ground pound are his main footsies tools. She doesn't duck his best moves.

She doesn't have infinite scratches. You only have to respect her wakeup if she has scratches. If she is neutral jumping NW on wakeup it means she's respecting his options. This is not what she wants to do. You can neutral jump her wakeup scratch, except she doesn't always have access to it.

She beats zoning on a read. Because GP is so fast it's not easy to get it out in time for the armor to be active. She has to guess and it's either punishable or he gets pressure when blocked.


Every Nightwing says the same thing and it's all a bill. "well I mean, you have options, you could jump a ground pound, you could duck a NW jump 2". True and you have options to cover those options. The point is Nightwing is the one in control. He is the one that dictates the footsies game.

I forgot to mention when we chatted that d1 to bait mb cat dash because she thinks it's ground blast is so good. Plus his jump 2 in staff is really good in this MU, but if she knows he's trying to use it defensively/to air to air she can blow it up with mb catdash.

I think she can definitely overwhelm him when he's on defense, but she has to get there first. I'm not sure what the MU number is but I could see it being even, maybe it being advantage NW but I haven't played it enough to know.

 

[16 Bit]

I think MB Cat Dash is the biggest bill of goods for Selina. So many that don't play the MU just assume you literally can never throw a fireball against her. That's not how it works.

 

[Sajam]

Gotta say I feel like the lack of MU knowledge excuse takes a lot of credit away from 16Bit, he is an extremely talented player who puts in a ton of work. I think chalking that up to "well his opponent didn't know the match up" is a little shitty.

I don't know if that was directed at my post, but I think there are way more reasons he wins that just MU knowledge. When you watch him play it's very clear he understands the game better than a lot of people and he's really good at it, and the super small details he abuses in some MUs are really interesting to see.

His opponent not knowing what the hell to do against his character is just another thing they have going against them.

 

[Sultan]

wait Borg beats frost? Is it because she can't check IANBs because her ground thingy doesn't hit in the air?

That and so much more, it's Frost's worst match-up, bar none. Basically Frost loses 30% or more trying to get near Cyborg, and when she does he can zip-line away with impunity. IANB blow up all of her approach options - slide doesn't work (a follow up IANB will catch the slide that went under the first NB, ground NB beats slide for free), her only decent option is a daggers trade which is only possible if he gets reckless with his IANB. On top of this dance to get near him, he has total interactable control, so certain stages are completely damning. The only saving grace is that the start of the match range isn't too bad for Frost, so she can occasionally catch early momentum and ride it to victory.

It's a vortex or die match-up for Frost.

(sorry about making this thread about Frost, lol. Carry on.)

 

[Dizzy]

NW's footsies don't matter if you can duck my mids, brah. As for CW WUs, Staff spin gets beat by Catscratch.

NW doesn't have any huge advantage over CW. Like you said there's no point in Escrima and my strengths in staff (zoning, range, decent WUs) are easily countered. Zoning gets blown up by Cat Dash, Range doesn't matter cause of your hitbox, and you can Neutral jump and punish all over my WUs.

Combine that with Catwoman's faster normals, slightly outdamaging NW, 50-50s and cause she can't jump in for free maybe, I can't see NW having an advantage.

5-5 Hold dat

"I have no options! This match is 5-5."
- @GGA Wafflez

 

[16 Bit]

I have an announcement. Carl disagrees with this MU chart.

 

[JTB123]

I don't know if that was directed at my post, but I think there are way more reasons he wins that just MU knowledge. When you watch him play it's very clear he understands the game better than a lot of people and he's really good at it, and the super small details he abuses in some MUs are really interesting to see.

His opponent not knowing what the hell to do against his character is just another thing they have going against them.

Not at all, in fact what you said is kinda my point. Especially this:

When you watch him play it's very clear he understands the game better than a lot of people and he's really good at it, and the super small details he abuses in some MUs are really interesting to see.

Bit's MU knowledge is why he is so dangerous, and in this game MU knowledge is everything. It's the same reason I find watching your NW so enjoyable.

 

[RM Truth]

I have an announcement. Carl disagrees with this MU chart.

Catwoman-Doomsday 7-3 because of Cat Evade and Bounce Cancels.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

I believe the match up with superman is 5-5.He can't zone you with lasers + his f2 whiffs even in the corner with b3.Played the matchup so many times with Hidan.
Also the match up with lex might be 3-7.It seemed so hard when i played with Niveks Lex or maybe i was doing something wrong.
Very good matchup chart btw

About time you made an account on TYM. Long time no see!

 

[Eh SnOwY]

I have an announcement. Carl disagrees with this MU chart.

Well he disagreed that REO is the best MK9 Player so who cares...

 

[GGA Max]

@GGA 16 Bit

are you saying Bane Aquaman and Sinestro are equally CW's hardest MU's?

 

[Shaazzyam]

Selina cannot duck his standing 2. That and ground pound are his main footsies tools. She doesn't duck his best moves.

She doesn't have infinite scratches. You only have to respect her wakeup if she has scratches. If she is neutral jumping NW on wakeup it means she's respecting his options. This is not what she wants to do. You can neutral jump her wakeup scratch, except she doesn't always have access to it.

She beats zoning on a read. Because GP is so fast it's not easy to get it out in time for the armor to be active. She has to guess and it's either punishable or he gets pressure when blocked.


Every Nightwing says the same thing and it's all a bill. "well I mean, you have options, you could jump a ground pound, you could duck a NW jump 2". True and you have options to cover those options. The point is Nightwing is the one in control. He is the one that dictates the footsies game. I want to hear something new not meta 1 bill's of goods like she ducks under the standing 1.

Firs of all, his best move isn't his raw 22 frame non-cancellable -4 overhead that leads to no pressure. I play plenty of NWs from my own experience to know that nobody is just throwing that out. His okay tracking ground pound that you can forward dash isn't even his best move. It's probably his d1, S1, J2, or even his j1. 3 of those 4 options Catwoman can avoid by doing B3 or even just sitting there. I can't see too much advantage in not having my best normals work tbh. Seems like everyone is having trouble understanding that?

MB B3 blows up Ground pound and standing 2 as they are pretty much single-hitting. So how effective they actually are in neutral is in question.

I'm not trying to make it out to seem like NW has no options or Catwoman has no weaknesses, (even though btw I can't actually neutral jump cat scratch because NW jump is crap) I just know my character enough to realize that he doesn't have much of and advantage in this MU. Both characters take a lot of risks.

"I have no options! This match is 5-5."
- @GGA Wafflez

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though.

 

[16 Bit]

@GGA 16 Bit

are you saying Bane Aquaman and Sinestro are equally CW's hardest MU's?

Not exactly. I'm saying they're all quite bad. If I had to go into more detail and rank them from hardest to easiest it'd be Sinestro > Aquaman > Bane.

Between you, Theo and Cowboy no one bodies me like Cowboy.

 

[M2Dave]

So Catwoman is about as good as Deathstroke.

Interesting match up chart.

 

[16 Bit]

Firs of all, his best move isn't his raw 22 frame non-cancellable -4 overhead that leads to no pressure. I play plenty of NWs from my own experience to know that nobody is just throwing that out. His okay tracking ground pound that you can forward dash isn't even his best move. It's probably his d1, S1, J2, or even his j1. 3 of those 4 options Catwoman can avoid by doing B3 or even just sitting there. I can't see too much advantage in not having my best normals work tbh. Seems like everyone is having trouble understanding that?

MB B3 blows up Ground pound and standing 2 as they are pretty much single-hitting. So how effective they actually are in neutral is in question.

I'm not trying to make it out to seem like NW has no options or Catwoman has no weaknesses, (even though btw I can't actually neutral jump cat scratch because NW jump is crap) I just know my character enough to realize that he doesn't have much of and advantage in this MU. Both characters take a lot of risks.




Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though.

You're right, his overhead doesn't lead to pressure. It leads to a full combo and then great oki that takes advantage of her poor wakeups.

Maybe they should just throw it out? Maybe it's better against her than people think? The best NW in the mu I've played uses it extensively.

She doesn't have infinite meter to do mb b+3. If she did she'd beat Martian and many other characters. That would be awsome but until Paulo grants me this amazing buff it's a read. A pretty good one, but one that requires meter and leaves her at his mercy when blocked. The guessing game is in his favor after a blocked b+3.

 

[Chongo]

You're right, his overhead doesn't lead to pressure. It leads to a full combo and then great oki that takes advantage of her poor wakeups.

Maybe they should just throw it out? Maybe it's better against her than people think? The best NW in the mu I've played uses it extensively.

She doesn't have infinite meter to do mb b+3. If she did she'd beat Martian and many other characters. That would be awsome but until Paulo grants me this amazing buff it's a read. A pretty good one, but one that requires meter and leaves her at his mercy when blocked. The guessing game is in his favor after a blocked b+3.

don't listen to shazzy he knows nothing

I can see both 6-4 nw and 5-5. Her hitbox and b3 are probably her best tools in the mu since she ducks a lot of things, but if I block a b3 i'm glad since I get to play a guessing game in my favor.

I wanna play one offline and grind the mu out.

 

[Shaazzyam]

Let's agree to disagree, then. I don't feel like this is going to get anywhere.

All I'm going to say is Emperor Murk, one of the most dedicated NW mains I know and master of up-playing, thinks this is a 5-5.

 

[16 Bit]

Let's agree to disagree, then. I don't feel like this is going to get anywhere.

All I'm going to say is Emperor Murk, one of the most dedicated NW mains I know and master of up-playing, thinks this is a 5-5.

That's fine, he can have it be 5-5 in his MU chart.

 

[Chongo]

Let's agree to disagree, then. I don't feel like this is going to get anywhere.

All I'm going to say is Emperor Murk, one of the most dedicated NW mains I know and master of up-playing, thinks this is a 5-5.

he also did say that there were no 7-3s or worse in this game

 

[The PantyChrist]

I think we will get a more accurate idea of match ups when discussing from personal experience rather than what others say

 

[Euphoric]

Still, a community letting a char with only 3 winning matchups and 15 losing matchups get top 8 consistently is pretty pathetic I think. You don't see that in any other community as far as I know.

Xian?