Match-up Discussion Catwoman match up chart

[Shaazzyam]

I dream of a day when NW is not upplayed anymore.


Today is not that day.

 

[Justice]

Still, a community letting a char with only 3 winning matchups and 15 losing matchups get top 8 consistently is pretty pathetic I think. You don't see that in any other community as far as I know.

You also don't see any top-tier Catwomen in any other scene either. Bit is the only one out of many at that level that stuck with the character when the others said "Fuck this bitch! She ain't braindead like everyone else!"

I firmly believe that Selina beats Superman but I can't prove it Arguments definitely can be made for 5-5 however. Sure Evading Lasers doesn't move Selina forward, BUT it's a spent opportunity by Supes which gives us a Scratch plus a potential opportunity to touch him. This is all Catwoman really needs is just one little love scratch to put him in 50/50 hell. We can even dodge F2 with D3! I know , I know! I almost knocked out the guy that told me that too until we hit the lab and he proved it to me.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Cat dashes can be baited and full combo punished with Dab shenanigans: jumping wildly, whiffing normals, full screen breath, etc.

Yeah, some SM players think she wins because they can't play exactly how they want. Change up your strategy, and you're back on top.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

You also don't see any top-tier Catwomen in any other scene either. Bit is the only one out of many at that level that stuck with the character when the others said "Fuck this bitch! She ain't braindead like everyone else!"

For sure, but a dedicated player for a low tier character doesn't make the character not low tier.

And @RM Truth for sure it happens sometimes, but Bit places very consistently. I'm just saying as a community we need to level up considerably if we are letting a low tier get top 3 consistently.

 

[16 Bit]

Curious as to the Raven numbers - I (who am I?) always had it in CW's favour. Raven's limited oki game (basically an ambigious jump-in after knockdown) can be avoided by Catwoman and Raven has no ability to escape CW's oki game outside of blocking correctly (all of Raven's offensive wake-up can be stuffed before they hit). In addition, Raven has no armour outside of the slow f3/b3 and Catwoman hits pretty quickly, while MB Cat Dash makes a mockery of Raven's slow linear single-hit zoning (yes it requires meter - so do all of Raven's combos).

I always felt completely on the back-foot when playing against CW as no matter how patient and/or unpredictable I was, Catwoman got in pretty easily and then starting doing Catwoman related activities

Raven's oki seems strong against Catwoman. Ducky has great ambiguous setups that stuff her wakeups or Dash goes past it then gets whiff punished.

Catwoman doesn't get in easily against Raven. Raven's backwalk speed is broken lol. If Raven is backwalking Catwoman HAS to take a risk to get in. She will never get in walking. She has to dash, jump or low whip. Raven can sit on a life lead well. It's actually close to fighting Sinestro, except Raven lacks a godlike footsies tool and can't wake up so it evens out.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Bits matchup chart goes right with how he's performed.

Every time he faces someone in a tourney match lately..... he's clutched it out in that match. Maybe the match-up is losing maybe not, but he's def outplayed his opponents to ENOUGH of a degree to get him out of the FT3.

That has to say something about the character as well.

Also keep in mind..... who has Bit like catwoman experience? Someone who labs CATWOMAN against your main? I wouldn't guess many.

Seems legit, especially if half of those 4-6's turn to 5-5's down the road.
Then again if MORE people find the holes..... she might stop placing?

Damn...... both Chef and Bit are right.

@GGA 16 Bit do you feel in tourney matches against other players (not in GGA) that they don't see the holes or have the knowledge yet to stop you?

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Am i allowed to dispute the ares mu number? on the grounds that me and bit have never played :] I know i felt it was even with astronout but it turns out he was a fraud.

EDIT: Should i feel bad about wanting to dispute one of her three winning matchups

 

[16 Bit]

I dream of a day when NW is not upplayed anymore.


Today is not that day.

If you think the NW number is wrong make your case. Escrima is a bill but staff is a problem. He out footsies her. He regulates jump ins. He destroys her on knockdown. What's your argument?

 

[16 Bit]

Am i allowed to dispute the ares mu number? on the grounds that me and bit have never played :] I know i felt it was even with astronout but it turns out he was a fraud.

It's not a MU I play often. Some theory crafting there. So sure.

 

[Espio]

The other thing people don't seem to get: Having a lot of 4-6's isn't a death sentence to character viability. If you have the knowledge and the footsies plus reads, you should be able to win a 4-6 consistently especially in a FT3 setting.

3-7 and worse is when match ups begin to become hindering to a character in actual noteworthy ways. If it's true she only has around three match ups worse than 4-6, it's not hard to believe that she could place well in the hands of a great player who understands the meta of their character and has more match up knowledge.

For my two characters, I personally wouldn't argue in either direction because the difference between 5-5, 6-4 and 4-6 is negligible enough that anybody can win with solid enough play so that's my two cents.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

It's not a MU I play often. Some theory crafting there. So sure.

Me neither, he got off of cw for some reason even though i did better vs his bg and kf lol. I know that its hard for ares to deal with her pressure because of the push back, ares advancing normals are so slow, but when he scores knockdowns it can be a nightmare for her.

 

[16 Bit]

Me neither, he got off of cw for some reason even though i did better vs his bg and kf lol. I know that its hard for ares to deal with her pressure because of the push back, ares advancing normals are so slow, but when he scores knockdowns it can be a nightmare for her.

I just figure she out footsies him pretty bad since his backwalk speed is awful and his normals kind of suck. She even goes under b+1 with b+3 easily. Plus I don't know what he's supposed to do about her jumping back. Who knows though.

@4x4lo8o actually plays this MU pretty good on Ares' end. He was blocking my usual shenanigans. He said he actually had MU exp against her.

 

[Justice]

For sure, but a dedicated player for a low tier character doesn't make the character not low tier.

You yourself called her top 10 and now you're calling her low tier and saying we need to level up against her? Make up my mind prz!

In my saltier moments with her, I have been known to call her "so low on the tier list that there's a blank tier between her and Joker/Cyborg". The truth of the matter is, she takes a lot of knowledge (and by extension hard work) to win with. This is not something that many people are willing to invest especially at the tournament level. So because of this I don't think we'll ever get a true representation of the utter scariness that is Catwoman simply due to lack of representation. I mean no offence to all of us loyalists that are still slugging it out with her but seriously, we're all just trying to recreate what Bit is already doing.

 

[Sajam]

This is probably what Catwoman's MU chart should look like.

Lots of people don't understand why Bit does well in tournament, but I think it's pretty clear. Nobody has any idea how to fight his character, and his MU knowledge against the majority of the cast is super impressive. Dealing with 50/50s is hard, especially in a tournament setting where your nerves can get the best of you and make you second guess all your choices. If your character doesn't have a real wakeup, you won't ever be allowed to wake up, and more than likely you have no idea the timing to stuff his. If you don't understand how to deal with Catwoman's j2/small hitbox (if that effects your character), then you will definitely be blown up for it.

Despite lots of characters beating Catwoman, if you don't know any of the things listed above, you probably won't be able to win.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

You yourself called her top 10 and now you're calling her low tier and saying we need to level up against her? Make up my mind prz!

Well let's be honest, she doesn't even have as many winning matches as CYBORG (Grundy, Frost, Green Lantern, and Joker among possibly others,) and probably loses less too (I'm not sure Cyborg has 15 losing matchups) yet the community is good enough at the Cyborg matchup to make sure he has never gotten top 8.

Considering we can shut Catwoman down even harder, we really should all learn the matchup better and actually do it.

Kudos to Bit though for winning with a char that is literally worse than Cyborg, that takes a lot of skill.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I just figure she out footsies him pretty bad since his backwalk speed is awful and his normals kind of suck. She even goes under b+1 with b+3 easily. Plus I don't know what he's supposed to do about her jumping back. Who knows though.

@4x4lo8o actually plays this MU pretty good on Ares' end. He was blocking my usual shenanigans. He said he actually had MU exp against her.

That pretty much sums up the matchup right there. His footsie tools get taken out of the equation because of it. It's painfully annoying to deal with.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Despite lots of characters beating Catwoman, if you don't know any of the things listed above, you probably won't be able to win.

She's so awesome.

 

[Sultan]

@GGA 16 Bit
What would you say are K.Frost's advantages in the match-up?

IMO, it really boils down to Frost's superior defensive tools allowing her to halt CW's momentum / force her to hang herself effectively. Outside of that one advantage, it feels like their tools are pretty evenly matched.

 

[Backfire]

Her MU numbers are similar to Harleys. They win a few, lose a few but most are even.

 

[16 Bit]

@GGA 16 Bit
What would you say are K.Frost's advantages in the match-up?

IMO, it really boils down to Frost's superior defensive tools allowing her to halt CW's momentum / force her to hang herself effectively. Outside of that one advantage, it feels like their tools are pretty evenly matched.

Playing footsies with KF is extremely dangerous because of slide. KF has good anti-air so jumping in is high risk. KF has a fully invincible wakeup that leads to a vortex that CW must respect. Because of parry post slide guessing game is in KF's favor.

 

[Big Pampering]

Catwoman is a bill, but you can go a long way as long as a character has sufficient tools that will grant the player good damage with the right reads. She does seem to have a lot of 6-4's, but 6-4's are winnable and that is what this community often forgets.

 

[Shaazzyam]

If you think the NW number is wrong make your case. Escrima is a bill but staff is a problem. He out footsies her. He regulates jump ins. He destroys her on knockdown. What's your argument?

NW's footsies don't matter if you can duck my mids, brah. As for CW WUs, Staff spin gets beat by Catscratch.

NW doesn't have any huge advantage over CW. Like you said there's no point in Escrima and my strengths in staff (zoning, range, decent WUs) are easily countered. Zoning gets blown up by Cat Dash, Range doesn't matter cause of your hitbox, and you can Neutral jump and punish all over my WUs.

Combine that with Catwoman's faster normals, slightly outdamaging NW, 50-50s and cause she can't jump in for free maybe, I can't see NW having an advantage.

5-5 Hold dat

 

[RunwayMafia]

I agree with the majority of this list. Also, LOL at the non catwoman players disputing the numbers of a man who has traveled, placed, and put his time and reputation on the line for the sake of character loyalty.

Slightly off-topic, but I can only imagine Ra Helios literally dying at this list. You know he's out there....waiting...lurking...

 

[juicepouch]

Well let's be honest, she doesn't even have as many winning matches as CYBORG (Grundy, Frost, Green Lantern, and Joker among possibly others,) and probably loses less too (I'm not sure Cyborg has 15 losing matchups) yet the community is good enough at the Cyborg matchup to make sure he has never gotten top 8.

Considering we can shut Catwoman down even harder, we really should all learn the matchup better and actually do it.

Kudos to Bit though for winning with a char that is literally worse than Cyborg, that takes a lot of skill.

wait Borg beats frost? Is it because she can't check IANBs because her ground thingy doesn't hit in the air?

 

[Qwark28]

Joker is one of the few I wouldn't take to heart. It's one of my least played MU. It's probably the least useful number I posted outside Grundy. However my theory is he has a good anti-air, he can actually play footsies with her with sweep and crowbar, and he can jump in because her d+2 sucks. She can blow up his jump ins with jump back 2 but he can punish that with gun. Then he should be able to play his oki game well against her shite wakeups. I don't really see a reason it shouldn't be a close MU.

I've played this with Nikolass, our local catwoman, it's 5-5. One of the most annoying things in this matchup is how her catdash will go through j2 due to the whiff and then return to trip guard him. You basically take a chance to mix her up with crossups.