Blazblue Cross Tag Battle

Discussion in 'Fighter's Depot' started by Living Corpse, Jul 17, 2017.

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  1. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.


    I'll try for sure. I'm messing with Mai, Hibiki and Ragna ATM, deciding who/if I want to dedicate the time required to be decent with.

    BBtag is a lot of fun, I don't actually think of it as a dbfz-alike, both games make sure execution is relatively easy and well within the reach of the average player, but they are really really different in the way they go about it. Both are air dashers of course..

    I dunno, I went into BBtag thinking it was going to be a dbfz-alike, but the more I'm reading and learning and playing the more its coming across as very much a "traditional" anime game like BB or GG. It's a little faster, and your BnBs don't take 8-fingered hands or 6months to learn, but *shrug*

    I'm not meaning to argue, nor am I saying one game is better than the other, just that I think the game is worth looking at entirely in it's own light, and not necessarily as a reskin of an existing game.

    Anyway lol, I'll try to catch the bb lobby when I can, and I really recommend checking out BBtag a little more closely. I am, and it's got a lot of strong selling points.
     
    #126
  2. Psyren136

    Psyren136 Premium Supporter
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    Oh yeah for sure. Im definitely going to be digging more into it, i just haven't yet. Been starting over learning BB, Tekken 7, INJ2 again. I just came back to enjoying fighting games so im taking my time enjoying different things.

    I don't care much for DBFZ and haven't really liked playing it at all.
     
    #127
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  3. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.

    Gotcha. Dbfz is super fun for me, but I can't play it constantly. I have to step away occasionally.

    We are in a FG golden age and it's hard to choose lol.

    Ok, back to BBtag stuffs,

    Rachel really caught my eye after digging in to what she actually does. Interesting zoning options, traps and setups, mix, unique wind mechanic really changes movement and options.. very cool. I love her animations as well.

    Thinking about her and Carmine possibly, kinda cool from a thematic perspective. Team Secundus.

    Team Primaris is going to probably be Es and Blake. I really like Ruby, but Es and Blake both nudge her out. Es is fucking amazing.






    edit: Digging up japanese tournament BBTag footage. Apparently, in Japan there are only about 4 characters in the game.. Es, Ruby, Ruby and Es.
     
    #128
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
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  4. x TeeJay o

    x TeeJay o Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
    Moderator

    Lol yeah the only character she used in tournaments heavy is Es,Ruby,Jin,Yu sadly. There’s some Blake,Waldstein,Hyde thrown in there as well. But for the most part it’s just the S characters used. I use Rachel/Vatista. Dope ass team
     
    #129
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  5. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.


    LOL, I have that exact team in training mode atm fiddling with it. Vatista I tried, didnt like too much originally, but I came back to her once I got a little more used to how the game feels, and I like her a lot now. Rachel just has some cool shit with her movement and her traps. Her instant OH stuff is satisfying as fuck and not terribly difficult to pull off, though I dont have it as tight as possible yet. The George + assist/tag/switch stuff makes for some silly crossup nonesense, and Im dumb, and slow, and JUST now realized you can Slipheed your Lobelia's into the air with 69, and create some really cool pressure scenarios... Both characters can zone and frustrate, and both can go in and be aggressive. Very fun team so far with a lot of flexibility built in. Good damage too.. I havent looked super close at how hard Rachel can actually hit, but Vatista can get very respectable damage midscreen and corner. It's not HUGE damage or anything, but more than I thought.

    Any interesting team synergy stuff you want to share, id appreciate. Im pretty sure Im going to run this team slong side my undecided-but-gonna-include-Es team. Hell, Es slots into either Rachel or Vatista fair well too.
     
    #130
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  6. SHAOLIN

    SHAOLIN 内部冲突

    Any Linne players in here?
     
    #131
  7. Psyren136

    Psyren136 Premium Supporter
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    I haven't figured out a team yet. I like Yu but i'm not sure who else im crazy about. Rather play BB or persona chars
     
    #132
  8. x TeeJay o

    x TeeJay o Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
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    Yeah Es is like #2 in the game I ran her with Rachel until Vat came out. There is a few tidbits I can share here like these


    Cross Combo
    Burst Punish

    Active Switch DP Punish
     
    #133
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  9. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.

    Very nice.

    This kind of team is very foreign to me, I usually play bully/powerhouse style characters, but Im really digging the options available and the ability to switch up playstyles and adapt to the match or just my mood.

    And yeah Es is suppppppper strong. Her damage is sort of stupid.. she breaks 5k by hitting A a couple times, then 2c and a special lol. I've loved that character since BBCF though, so she's going to get some play time for sure. Just not sure who to pair her with. You can't go wrong by and large, she's a Cell-alike in that she slots in anywhere and can benefit and be benefited by, anyone. I really like Blake.. but I dunno. A piece of me wants to not be a pure bastard, and pair her with someone that isnt so over-played.
     
    #134
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  10. JBeezYBabY

    JBeezYBabY Mr. Righteous

    Vatista & Carmine = Sex

    I LOOOOOOOOVE the synergy with my team!

    BTW GGs @TopTierHarley. Sorry to it had to be short, but this negro was on his way out to a day party. But most def down to play again if ya want dis ass whoopin'! ;)
     
    #135
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  11. JBeezYBabY

    JBeezYBabY Mr. Righteous

    !!!RUMOR ALERT!!!

    Apparently, this rumor surfaced at Anime Expo that just happened in AZ over the weekend. Ryuko and Satsuki from Kill La Kill might make the roster :eek:
     
    #136
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  12. x TeeJay o

    x TeeJay o Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
    Moderator

    It’s no rumour. The cross tag dev said that during an interview. It’s legit
     
    #137
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  13. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.

    This is long.

    TL ; DR - Yay Kill la Kill characters and hooray I found my characters, but boo Blake isnt one of them.

    THAT is dope news. Ryuko is one of the coolest anime characters I've ever seen. I watch a lot of anime, but still. Satsuki is amazing too.. Ryuko is gonna be suuuuuper hard not to play when she drops. My imagination is rolling, thinking of possible abilities and such.. FUCK YEAH.

    I didnt know it was confirmed though. What I had heard was at Anime Expo the BBTag guy, Mori? I dont know how its spelled, but I think it's pronounced Mori.. Said something like 'Based on the volume of cheering in the room, maybe we could see them in BBTag" or something to that effect.. Which makes me think its a possibility, but not a confirmation.


    Ok, on to the game we have in front of us,

    After some soul searching and a great deal of deep sighing.. I think I'm going to set Blake aside. I LOVE that character, and seeing her gameplay was one of the first things that really drew me into checking out BBTag.. but I just cant quite fit her into what I want to do, and what I'm 'good' at doing. As a player, my in-built tendencies and instincts mesh the most successfully with simple, pressure/bully style characters who's gameplan is raw aggression and who rely on very basic Oh/Low and/or throw mix to get their openings. I love the idea of setups and traps and conditioning and frame traps and yadda yadda, but I'm bad at all of it. I always find the most success using basic, effective pressure into big damage, into extremely basic oki, etc.

    Blake can do that certainly, but she's at her best when played intelligently - and I don't play intelligently lol.

    So! I have found my teams and locked them in. No deviation for at least 2 months. I have two teams for a reason, and I don't expect to keep them both for long. It's possible I guess, but doubtful. No time limit on eliminating one team though.

    Team 1 - Rachel/Vatista. As mentioned before. Zoning and space/pace control that can transition into mix/traps/pressure (Rachel) and strong neutral control/footsies/pressure (Vatista). It's a flexible team that lets me slow the game down a little bit (a little concern of mine. Im old. I need time to process), and gives me options in a variety of situations vs a variety of characters. It's also reasonably uncommon - which the snowflake in me enjoys.

    Team 2 - Es/Carmine. So yeah. I get zero originality points for this team.. Es is one of the best characters in the game, she can play from anywhere, zone or rush or bully or mix and her damage is kinda idiotic given all her options and her range. Carmine is just big ass damage, control, etc. Both characters can bully the opponent, both hit like a truck towing a trailer full of other trucks that all have smaller trucks in their truck beds and pictures of trucks painted on their truck hoods, both (at the basic level) have straight forward neutrals based on around big ass normals , etc. This is a "me" team. Lots of damage, easy over-arching gameplans.

    T1 is to try and reconcile what I like, with what I'm good at, and to do something a little different and have fun with it. Maybe I can make it work, and maybe I can learn and expand my skillset. If I cant or dont like it or whatever, I have a more standardized team Im also working with. It's doubtful I'll keep both teams, t2 is my fall-back if my t1 experiment doesn't pan out.

    I have no idea why I think my team choice warrants this post. I cant imagine anyone gives three shits in a hundred. But Im bored. So here we are.
     
    #138
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  14. Marinjuana

    Marinjuana Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes

    [​IMG]

    Jubei's 2A is fugly, cool character though. Looks like he has some dirty mixups, and I like his hairball assist.
     
    #139
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  15. Tanno

    Tanno The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind

    After Viennality, I'm gonna play this game casually. I'm not cut out to be good with the tag games. I'll stick on 1vs1 games, like BBCF, GGXrd and Tekken. Sorry, bois. I did go to Viennality to test myself against the others, while I learn a lot of things about getting better at those FGs.
     
    #140
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  16. JBeezYBabY

    JBeezYBabY Mr. Righteous

    EEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! :D:D:D:D

    @EntropicByDesign Your first team seems coo, but Rachel needs time to zone tho. Id say put her in first to setup and Vatista can cover you with her beams.
    Es - I still haven't tried her but i know shes one of the most damaging characters in the game. Teamed with Carmine? BEAST MODE! Be careful with Carmine tho, cuz he uses ALOT of his life each dissolve throw attack but you know how to gain a bit of health back, right? Man, tactics mode is fuggin AWESOME in this game!

    Still haven't used Jubei yet, but I hear hes glitchy as fuck. Think ill try him next ;)
     
    #141
  17. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.

    Yeah, most of the combo stuff Im trying to implement with Carmine is light on his self-harm mechanic, and ends with his AAAA seq to recover some health whenever possible. I'm not worrying about his post KD tech too much right now, just focusing on learning a solid neutral and not literally bleeding myself out. I've got some decent meterless 7-8k solo stuff that's pretty light on self-harm. Some decent throw routes too.. though his 236.a doesn't seem to be universal unless he has blood out already.

    I've also got some truly stupid ResBlaz stuff that's literally 11-14k damage solo and no self harm due to the life regen, but I dont have it anything like down in muscle memory yet.

    Es is pretty straight forward and broken as hell.

    Yeah Rachel and Vatista are def taking some time to get used to. Rachel's zoning is a lot of fun though. I played a little earlier with her and running the gauntlet she lays down is no joke. Even when someone gets in, if you've got some Lobelias out (wtf does Lobelia mean?), and get a bat conversion off, they'll have a hard time doing anything, since they'll likely get interrupted and shocked. I need to look into combo routes on her though, I dislike what I have currently. It's not the damage - her damage is weak - it's just the route itself. I dunno, it's awkward. May have to just man-up and deal with it, but if I can find a better route, I'm down.

    Vatista is almost like Es. She's straight forward and does good-but-not-Es damage. Just sit back and chuck her orbs, mixing IA A and B with grounded A and B. If you're fast enough you can get three on screen at the same time - but it's only for a moment. Keep her lasers out as a threat and occasionally don't IA, but actually jump, etc. I will say I hate her main combo ending route, the sj.AB j.BC is feels finnicky as shit. Even when I get all 5 hits of the j.b's it feels like the angle has to favor you or they fall out. Maybe I just don't have it down properly yet and I'm missing some timing nuance(s).

    4 characters is a tall order, but luckily Carmine and Es are pretty damn straight forward execution wise. Carmine has some kinda specific timings, and his BB AAAA ending sequence is a little tight, but all in all, he's not hard, and Es is a cakewalk.

    Edit, Carmine is thought to be a strong character, but I think with time he's going to evolve into one of the strongest characters in the game. I've been watching tournament footage (do you have any good links to Carmine play? Pls let me know) and random game footage, etc, and I rarely see him used well right now. Watching some of the NLBC stuff and I hate critiquing players that can annihilate me on my best day and their worst, but.. they are playing him like shit. Landing clean AAA confirms and netting sub 5k AND losing health - all with no chance for opponent to burst - so it's a clean combo.. and I KNOW they can hit confirm AAA because I'm terrible and I can, in real sets, almost every time. I see them not using B sequences in combos, but then chucking blood full screen and giving up a ton of health. I've seen several games where the Carmine was winning, clearly dominating the neutral and landing hits and so on, but his health wasnt that far off the "losing" players, through occasional incidental hits, and super bad use of blood. Now, I know that some of what high lvl players are doing with short combos or seemingly odd choices comes down to operating off a read, or trying to bait something, or trying to set up a specific situation, etc etcu but that doesn't explain a lot of what I see. It's like he's being used as a disposable character, designed to power the enemies health down and use himself up in the process, and I REALLY don't think that's anything like what he's capable of... And the non-pro, random online Carmines are just trying to land huge damage combos that hurt them damn near as much as the other player because.. swag? Carmine has some 8-9k stuff that does every bit of 5k to himself, so congrats. You've gained 3-3.5k worth of life lead. Pls Carmines, learn these:

    AAA.2c.2b.B x 236.A <microdash> BB, AAAA
    That's 6990 or so, call it 7k, A autocombo confirm that's super easy - even the microdash has a large window, and ends with self heal, you lose very very little health. Want Oki/post KD pressure? Assist if you got it, if you don't, you can forgo the self heal and use the AAA sequence to enable an ender of your choice, and even without self-heal, that combo is light on self-harm.

    AAAA, asst, AAAA

    There ya go. 7k-ish and double self heal with no self harm. Getting it to work depends on your partner and what assists you have available, and can be a pain to get right, but it's there and it's an option. 7k, no self harm, and double self heal. That's pretty damn good, off your A auto confirm.

    ****I don't like to level criticism at players who are better than I ever will be, and there is absolutely a chance that there is more to the weird Carmine play im seeing thsn I understand.. I'm just calling it like I see it, based on what I've seen, and based on my own understanding of the character. I really feel like, minus his lack of mix options, Carmine might be one of the best characters in the game.

    Anyway, question for you all becAuse I'm not at the PC and I'm bad.. is it possible to call an assist on screen and hold them there - P, PD, and have them delay using their assist until you tell them to, WHILE keeping control of your original character?
     
    #142
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  18. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.

    Naoto can insta kill from any amount of health, LOL.. I did not know she could do that.
     
    #143
  19. JBeezYBabY

    JBeezYBabY Mr. Righteous

    That move is weird to hit tho. U gotta do that air combo bullet attack for the insta kill to stick. Its alot of conditioning that i have no time for. I tried her....aaaand not feeling her moveset. Vatista is better :)

    As far as footage, i haven't uploaded footage in a LOOONG time but i save EVERYTHING. Remind me, and ill upload some footage of my Carmine/Vatista team. As a matter of fact, why dont WE play? I mean, I already played 2 TYMers w/ Victories on my side! Looking to turn my 2/2 into 3/3. How about it, Mr. E ?Question mark? :D
     
    #144
  20. Im back from a short vacation and looking forward to playing some matches. Will anyone be available for matches tonight?
     
    #145
  21. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.


    I play PC, I might pick this up on PS4, but I dunno. I know PS4 is the better option, but my PS4 is hotly contested by my GF, Niece and Mom when she's visiting, so I keep buying PS4 games and then never play them.

    As to Naoto, her marks probably aren't her gameplan but there are a few decent ways to get the mark on the opponent. Imo it's more a fear thing. If I manage to mark you early, then almost any touch is death, making it so you have to play perfectly, and I can kinda act like an idiot. Marking isn't a goal, but it's one of those "when the opportunity arrises" kinda things. Just something fun and swaggy to land, and a genuine asset to her zoning game if you mark early.

    I'm not feeling Vatista much. She's mega strong, I'm just not clicking with her. So might swap Naoto in her place. I lose her.neutral control, but gain another hybrid zoner/trap character - and Naoto has strong neutral, just not Vatista strong. God help her (Naoto) if she whiffs something.
     
    #146
  22. JBeezYBabY

    JBeezYBabY Mr. Righteous

    #147
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  23. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.


    Not bad.

    A couple things,

    Firstly, I'd work on your combos for sure. You landed a ton of confirms that could have converted into wwaayy more damage. If Carmine lands a 5A you should always be taking 7.2-8k life, no meter and assist-less.. and when you're cycling in to the combo you can make the call to end with a self heal sequence or an Oki/setup/pressure sequence. Both do equivalent damage and the life-loss for the combos as a whole is on par with what you're already doing, and it's less with the self heal option - which you can follow with an assist to maintain momentum (can be risky).

    A* 2C B-214.A, (hold 6)AB-236.A (hold 6 or microdash) BB AAAA - 7300~ damage or so with a self heal ender. You can end this in AAA 236.a/b/c as well and forgo the self heal for a pinwheel, it doesn't combo but locks them down and let's you keep up the pressure.

    A* 2C B-214.A, (hold 6)AB-236.A, j.AA, j.AABB or j.AABC or j.AAC. - 7200-7500 damage or so, and the different jumping enders give you different situations. Life loss isn't bad, but it's obv more noticeable. J.c bleeds you badly. Anytime you do BB remember only the first B costs life. On this combo the j.AABB ender is interesting because if you time the last B late, you will hit the ground well before they do. I like to immediately go into a pair of 2As to see if they're watching their toes. I've even had them recover airborne into my unblockable DP - but that's a gimmick. You can throw, OH, you have some nice options here. They can DP you, so be careful, but that goes for almost any pressure scenario in the game.

    *- note, these combos can start with AA or AAA as well for more time to confirm, but the more As, the tighter it all becomes. 2A 5A also works, but of course the scaling is much higher. I find 5AA to be a nice compromise between ease of execution and time to confirm. These combos are not at all difficult though.

    Secondly, you are landing a ton of lasers, but that's not going to work vs opponents who know how to deal with zoning. You should work on mixing your orbs and lasers, and learn to IA.Orb - it's crazy easy in this game. This will let you drop an ia.orb and then shoot an angled laser, covering the ground and air approach.. if an opponent makes a read on the laser you're going to use, they can usually get a full combo from almost full screen (character dependant ofc) so those lasers are a big commitment and risk vs someone who knows how to navigate them.. they can eat two or even three, and more than even the odds with one correct read. The lasers are negative on block even at full screen. So if they just block one, they can get a lot of the screen back, and I've heard - have not tested - that some characters can Distortion punish blocked lasers. lots of balls. Balls everywhere. Ia.Ball, ground ball, jumping ball, then use the lasers to cover gaps with orbs on the screen.
     
    #148
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  24. JBeezYBabY

    JBeezYBabY Mr. Righteous

    I think ive seen a combo simular with the AA attacks link with EX Pinwheel - B, then a regular A pinwheel, but seeing the combo done in matches was very inconsistent. Im starting with the safe BnB options first until i branch out into more damaging combos because the more damagaing combos with Carmine damages himself.

    Ive gotten a cute combo where i heal myself but i need to get it into muscle memory. And im trying to use my assist as much as possible to build my Resonance meter. Thats basically my strategy thus far, but thanks for the input. Much appreciated :)
     
    #149
  25. EntropicByDesign

    EntropicByDesign Confused and afraid.


    Try the combos I posted, they are extremely easy, even in an online environment with lag. Stick 5A 2C as your opener and dont do 5AA, and its *extremely* easy. No need to use ex pinwheel or anything, and like I said, the first combo listed is very very easy, and it self heals. Up to you of course, just passing some info along to a fellow Carmine player. He's mega powerful, but you have to leverage that power, otherwise he's just a normal character that hurts himself, lol.

    Also, I dont mean to come across like I'm some amazing player, or like I'm a better player, or anything of the sort, just offering up some advice on the footage.

    I play differently. I dont care at all about winning early on. So when I play the first thing I do is gather my starter-kit stuff, which always looks something like:

    Very basic frame data. (what's unsafe, what's +, etc. nothing deep, just very basic stuff on my core kit)
    Find my AA and punish options.
    Find my BnBs - Midscreen/Corner/Punish/AA to start.
    VERY basic oki option(s).

    I try to use match footage from respected players to gather as much of this as possible, online match footage when possible because I play online and some of the things you see in offline tournaments doesnt translate to online play. Usually takes me an hour or two to get it together unless its a character that has a guide or something that has a lot of it correlated already. Occasionally longer, but rarely.

    I do my best to find 2-3 combos that can cover all the main situations Im going to be in, and then I start to practice them. If they are exceptionally difficult, Ill tinker with them, and modify as needed to get the combo as reliable as possible with a minimum of damage loss. 1-4% is fine by me. Id rather drop the 'right' combo in early matches and lose, while slowly getting my (near) optimal stuff down to muscle memory, than win using something I'll have to entirely discard at some point.

    That's just how I play.. My focus when I'm learning a character or game or whatever isnt on winning, but strictly on learning the end-game tactics and combos and what-have-yous, so that I can compete with the best players I possibly can. Just my take on things.



    The Carmine combos. Recorded these real quick just to give you a basic visual.

    Self heal, 7400~ midscreen 5A starter.
    Self Heal, 6990~ midscreen 5A starter, 400 less damage, but even easier than the first combo and slightly less life loss.
    Same starting sequence as the first two combos, but shows a potato aerial ender option. 7k. This isnt optimal at all, its just extremely easy. I didnt delay the last jump sequence like I should have btw, I did the BB earlier than I should have, but you get the idea. yes, I know teching differently doesnt allow the 2A's after, etc, it's just an example. No lself heal. Can end the last jumping sequence in a handful of different ways for differing results.

    Further edit. You can start all these with a triple A sequence if you want the entire time for the hit confirm. In the grounded versions, just omit the BB after the 236.A and in the air version, Superjump instead of regular jump. Air version is tight though.
     
    #150
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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