Batman matchup chart Injustice 2

[Qwark28]

Can I just hop in to say that it's beyond stupid to say 2 chars can equally zone each other when one has a

Gunshot

and the other one has

Projectile that moves him backwards
Upwards projectile that can hit mid and launch
Bats that allow free movement and punishes

Not that either character has no options to maintain a lifelead via zoning. But let's not be mentally deficient about the comparison.

 

[Jugghead]

Can I just hop in to say that it's beyond stupid to say 2 chars can equally zone each other when one has a

Gunshot

and the other one has

Projectile that moves him backwards
Upwards projectile that can hit mid and launch
Bats that allow free movement and punishes

Not that either character has no options to maintain a lifelead via zoning. But let's not be mentally deficient about the comparison.

It sounds like you're saying Batman can out zone Joker? In a head to head zoning battle I think Joker wins. His gunshot is too fast for the batarangs and the bats will be useful to get a free batarang (which they can duck) but will serve much better to apply pressure.

That being said, Batman can zone out some other characters better than Joker can, like Cheetah.

 

[Vengeance135]

It sounds like you're saying Batman can out zone Joker? In a head to head zoning battle I think Joker wins. His gunshot is too fast for the batarangs and the bats will be useful to get a free batarang (which they can duck) but will serve much better to apply pressure.

That being said, Batman can zone out some other characters better than Joker can, like Cheetah.

If this sounds condescending then I'm really sorry, I think what qwark is trying to say is that it can't be even if joker has only gun shot while batman has two types of batarangs that can be mb at any time and bats. I explained the zoning game earlier as to why batman wins. Check it out good sir and sorry if that sounded condescending. I'm not trying to be an ass, my thing is if you know the MU then by all means let's discuss it, but if you don't, then don't pull stuff out your butt and argue it to death. If you don't know then you don't know lol I don't know shot about the Brainiac MU lol

 

[Rude]

@Rude Ay you wanna come in and tear king a new asshole because he didn't provide reasoning for every single one of his mus?

I don't main Batman I don't give a shit.

 

[Vengeance135]

It's just sometimes it seems a little condescending how you guys explain whats going on in the match up. But Your right thats what tym is here for to explain and learn about the game, so apologies to you joker player's

I apologize if I sounded condescending in anyway. I really didn't mean to sound like that. My thing is if you don't know the MU then you don't know it. Don't just take one general Idea and run with it. I love the MU discussions because sometimes someone cam say something I didn't know.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

I could definitely see your perspective of things. I'm sorry if it came off as condescending, I actually had it in my mind to try not to be condescending in that post lol. I was just trying to make the point of how good trait bats are in the MU

I wasent talking about you specifically bro i actually thought your post was really helpful. but Other joker players came off a bit brash like king is supposed to know every single thing in the match up.

Anyone here on xbox hit me up im always looking to play good players

 

[Vengeance135]

I don't main Batman I don't give a shit.

Lmfao

 

[Red Hood MKX]

It's

It's typically interesting and helpful when you get the perspective from a person who mains another character about the Batman MU. I go on other characters threads to get that info. I'm interested in what Green Arrow and Poison Ivy players thought of the Batman MU.

Yes i agree thats why i admitted i was wrong and made a mistake its really always helpful to hear people's thoughts and opinions on match ups

 

[Jugghead]

If this sounds condescending then I'm really sorry, I think what qwark is trying to say is that it can't be even if joker has only gun shot while batman has two types of batarangs that can be mb at any time and bats. I explained the zoning game earlier as to why batman wins. Check it out good sir and sorry if that sounded condescending. I'm not trying to be an ass, my thing is if you know the MU then by all means let's discuss it, but if you don't, then don't pull stuff out your butt and argue it to death. If you don't know then you don't know lol I don't know shot about the Brainiac MU lol

I was just talking about what @Qwark28 said.

I was not pulling anything out of my ass. I know the MU well enough to know in purely zoning war, Joker has the advantage because of gunshot. I went and read some of your comments and you said that kind of zoning war would not happen. Probably not, but that's because Joker has the advantage and it's not smart for the Batman player. Either way, that was the point I was making. I didn't get the sense you disagree that Joker wins the zoning war.

In my opinion, Joker can't out zone Batman if Batman tries to get in (bats, J2, slide). Batman can out zone Joker if Joker tries to get in (all his projectiles). Joker wins the zoning war (gunshot). It sounds like you also came to the same conclusion, so what are your arguing with me about?

 

[Vengeance135]

I was just talking about what @Qwark28 said.

I was not pulling anything out of my ass. I know the MU well enough to know in purely zoning war, Joker has the advantage because of gunshot. I went and read some of your comments and you said that kind of zoning war would not happen. Probably not, but that's because Joker has the advantage and it's not smart for the Batman player. Either way, that was the point I was making. I didn't get the sense you disagree that Joker wins the zoning war.

In my opinion, Joker can't out zone Batman if Batman tries to get in (bats, J2, slide). Batman can out zone Joker if Joker tries to get in (all his projectiles). Joker wins the zoning war (gunshot). It sounds like you also came to the same conclusion, so what are your arguing with me about?

Okay you confused me here sir,

You said "In my opinion, Joker can't out zone Batman if Batman tries to get in (bats, J2, slide). Batman can out zone Joker if Joker tries to get in (all his projectiles)."

On this I completely agree, so how would joker win the zoning war? It's not practical to sit at full screen and trade projectiles the entire game. Zoning is much more then just doing that.

My argument to other people when they said joker can outzone batman was that they are wrong and I stated why multiple times. You literally said what I said in a summary but then said joker wins the zoning war.

If you mean in an impractical situation if they were both at full screen trading guns vs batarangs only and did nothing else the entire match then yeah Joker would win. But I thought that is my chart was based off what the characters can do to each other on a competitive level.

If joker could completely keep batman out at a far distance, then he would win the zoning war, but he can't. He shoots his gun once, batman gets a free dash, he shoots it again, another free dash and then batman is in punishing range with bats that can be activated after another gunshot.

I'm sorry man I'm just hella confused here lol

 

[Vengeance135]

I was just talking about what @Qwark28 said.

I was not pulling anything out of my ass. I know the MU well enough to know in purely zoning war, Joker has the advantage because of gunshot. I went and read some of your comments and you said that kind of zoning war would not happen. Probably not, but that's because Joker has the advantage and it's not smart for the Batman player. Either way, that was the point I was making. I didn't get the sense you disagree that Joker wins the zoning war.

In my opinion, Joker can't out zone Batman if Batman tries to get in (bats, J2, slide). Batman can out zone Joker if Joker tries to get in (all his projectiles). Joker wins the zoning war (gunshot). It sounds like you also came to the same conclusion, so what are your arguing with me about?

And I for sure didn't imply you were pulling anything out your ass. That was a general statement lol

 

[ForeverKing]

Can I just hop in to say that it's beyond stupid to say 2 chars can equally zone each other when one has a

Gunshot

and the other one has

Projectile that moves him backwards
Upwards projectile that can hit mid and launch
Bats that allow free movement and punishes

Not that either character has no options to maintain a lifelead via zoning. But let's not be mentally deficient about the comparison.

Yeah but it doesn't matter if your one zoning option beats all the opponent's zoning options. It's bad that Batman moves backwards when throwing a batarang in this match up because he wants to get closers to Joker, not farther away.

Not saying Joker wins the match up, I have no idea what the match up number is. But Joker definitely wins the zoning war.

 

[Vengeance135]

Yeah but it doesn't matter if your one zoning option beats all the opponent's zoning options. It's bad that Batman moves backwards when throwing a batarang in this match up because he wants to get closers to Joker, not farther away.

Not saying Joker wins the match up, I have no idea what the match up number is. But Joker definitely wins the zoning war.

Okay hold on lol I think we may have had a miscommunication here.

I was under the assumption you were talking about competitive play. But if you are talking just specific tools and their general effectiveness, not counting anything else other then just the batarang vs the gun shot at completely full screen then you are for sure right, joker definitely wins the zoning war.

But if we are talking practicality and competitive play with all other tools included then Joker doesn't win.

My bad bro, I misunderstood what you were saying.

And I swear I'm not being condescending. I thought you were talking competitive play lol my bad

 

[Jugghead]

Okay you confused me here sir,

You said "In my opinion, Joker can't out zone Batman if Batman tries to get in (bats, J2, slide). Batman can out zone Joker if Joker tries to get in (all his projectiles)."

On this I completely agree, so how would joker win the zoning war? It's not practical to sit at full screen and trade projectiles the entire game. Zoning is much more then just doing that.

My argument to other people when they said joker can outzone batman was that they are wrong and I stated why multiple times. You literally said what I said in a summary but then said joker wins the zoning war.

If you mean in an impractical situation if they were both at full screen trading guns vs batarangs only and did nothing else the entire match then yeah Joker would win. But I thought that is my chart was based off what the characters can do to each other on a competitive level.

If joker could completely keep batman out at a far distance, then he would win the zoning war, but he can't. He shoots his gun once, batman gets a free dash, he shoots it again, another free dash and then batman is in punishing range with bats that can be activated after another gunshot.

I'm sorry man I'm just hella confused here lol

I think we have different definitions of a "zoning war". I consider it when both players primarily zone an entire game, who has the advantage? We both agree Joker. Another way I would put that is "Joker out zones Batman" (I think I used "out zone" incorrectly earlier).

We both agree if Joker zones and Batman tries to get in, Batman has the advantage. I would describe that as "Joker can't zone out Batman".

I'm not saying those are the correct definitions of those terms, but that's what I thought they meant.

 

[Qwark28]

Yeah but it doesn't matter if your one zoning option beats all the opponent's zoning options. It's bad that Batman moves backwards when throwing a batarang in this match up because he wants to get closers to Joker, not farther away.

Not saying Joker wins the match up, I have no idea what the match up number is. But Joker definitely wins the zoning war.

You're looking at this from a perspective in which you approach Joker. In which case, you have your movement and your bats, which you can use after a ducked gunshot to either get in or punish if midrange. You also have the choice to make a read and pre emptively throw them for a full combo punish with hook. A ducked gunshot is basically the same as saying "your turn" and since you're waiting for it in neutral, you can focus on any grounded or air approach.


From a perspective in which Joker approaches Batman, he has his movement and his gunshot. Your zoning moves you backwards, making the "your turn" aspect of typical projectiles much less effective as the dash they will do on their "turn" effectively closes less distance character wise. Then you have a wall which is the MB uprang, that launches for full combo and is + on block IIRC. You also have your bats, which help cover for your mistakes and let you approach safely, that's a level of control Joker doesn't have.

 

[Vengeance135]

I think we have different definitions of a "zoning war". I consider it when both players primarily zone an entire game, who has the advantage? We both agree Joker. Another way I would put that is "Joker out zones Batman" (I think I used "out zone" incorrectly earlier).

We both agree if Joker zones and Batman tries to get in, Batman has the advantage. I would describe that as "Joker can't zone out Batman".

I'm not saying those are the correct definitions of those terms, but that's what I thought they meant.

Ah we do lol but I understand what your saying now. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Vengeance135]

You're looking at this from a perspective in which you approach Joker. In which case, you have your movement and your bats, which you can use after a ducked gunshot to either get in or punish if midrange. You also have the choice to make a read and pre emptively throw them for a full combo punish with hook. A ducked gunshot is basically the same as saying "your turn" and since you're waiting for it in neutral, you can focus on any grounded or air approach.


From a perspective in which Joker approaches Batman, he has his movement and his gunshot. Your zoning moves you backwards, making the "your turn" aspect of typical projectiles much less effective as the dash they will do on their "turn" effectively closes less distance character wise. Then you have a wall which is the MB uprang, that launches for full combo and is + on block IIRC. You also have your bats, which help cover for your mistakes and let you approach safely, that's a level of control Joker doesn't have.

Thank you

 

[Rebelo]

Haven't agreed with many things you have posted but I agree with you on this one. I watched Kings set with Rebelo today from about a month ago. The video ended at 17-5.

I was actaully drinking that knight and let him no before we played it was pretty scumbag for him to record without even telling but its w.e it doesnt usally look lile that when me and him play ; )

 

[zabugi]

Id say he wins all matchups coz he's batman

 

[Tundra81]

I was actaully drinking that knight and let him no before we played it was pretty scumbag for him to record without even telling but its w.e it doesnt usally look lile that when me and him play ; )

Would you say the match up is 5-5? Wasn't shitting on your GL btw, I just feel like this one is a losing MU.

 

[Savage8-8]

Ill try to clarify the zoning discussion between Batman and joker. Joker can outzone Batman. Meaning that if Batman chooses to stay at a distance and throw projectiles, joker wins. Now just bc that's the case that does not mean Batman can't get in. Batman has no trouble getting in on joker.

Just bc Batman can get in does not mean he wins the zoning war. Joker has no issues getting in on Batman as well. But if both choose sit at distance, joker comes out on top.

 

[Rebelo]

Would you say the match up is 5-5? Wasn't shitting on your GL btw, I just feel like this one is a losing MU.

Yea 5 5 man

 

[Illmatix]

I like this, a match up chart that realizes Batman has a tough time getting in against zoners. That and his wake up game are actually easily exploitable.

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

I would say Batman-Cheetah is 7-3 in Batman's favor. Possibly even 8-2, though that's pessimistic. It's definitely her worst MU.

Agree on Ivy and Canary.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

@ForeverKing have any of these matchups changed since the patch in your opinion? I'm interested in Supergirl and Aqua now. And how do you think he fairs against Starfire?