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Batman matchup chart Injustice 2

ShaolinGunFu

ShaolinGunFu

Warrior
TheGangstaFace said:
@ForeverKing have any of these matchups changed since the patch in your opinion? I'm interested in Supergirl and Aqua now. And how do you think he fairs against Starfire?
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im not the best bman but i often play one of the best aquamans, and although its obviously better now, his trait was the defining factor. many great batmans have came up with great strategic adaptations for it but when you look into the matchup, the matchup also looks into you
 
Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
Alright I really need help here. I've heard repeatedly that Batman beats Superman because he limits his mobility and then has a good enough upclose game.

But if I'm Batman, first off at the beginning of the round is Superman f23s, I have to block that. No normals are fast enough to beat that and just doing a raw parry is not worth the risk reward. So at the jump, disadvantage.

If Superman backs up I now have to go to him or throw bats. If I throw bats I'm creating distance between him and me, not what I want to do. From full screen Superman can really do what he wants. Grounded lasers, air lasers, ground lasers etc until he has bar for a mb. Meanwhile I'm trying to inch my way forward and any counter bats I throw push me backward.

Mid screen is the toss up. I'm close enough that Superman can jump for the air laser read then air dash forward for a j2 f23 combo, or dash backwards for more air lasers or just neutral jump and make me pause expecting something. Regardless mid screen there's control. Unless I'm making a hard read on it Batman is not in the lead here either. I can have trait out but trait's only useful on reaction to Superman's offense. I release them preemptively and lose them or they track badly. Not to mention a conversion off them isn't even gurateneed. Some pressure yes but if I didn't take a hit this entire time, I maybe have a single bar. Maybe.

By the time I'm close enough to use buttons I'm already in f23 range where I don't have the ability to challenge him. His normals are too fast. My normals are all negative enough that a d1 can challenge without much fear even with bats out. Block f23 breath, now it's time for a guessing game where throughout the entire game Batman does not have the offense. He is defensively guessing Superman's offense. Assuming I managed to get trait out and keep it at this point, this is when I'd have the biggest chance to get something started but that's a lot of ifs.

Throughout this entire situation unless I hard read a mb grapple or up bat or mb upbat I don't see how Batman is going even let alone winning this MU. So someone help me out here. I don't understand what makes Batman win this MU outside of people just over respecting his pressure.
 
T

Two First Names

Noob
Harlequin969 said:
Alright I really need help here. I've heard repeatedly that Batman beats Superman because he limits his mobility and then has a good enough upclose game.

But if I'm Batman, first off at the beginning of the round is Superman f23s, I have to block that. No normals are fast enough to beat that and just doing a raw parry is not worth the risk reward. So at the jump, disadvantage.

If Superman backs up I now have to go to him or throw bats. If I throw bats I'm creating distance between him and me, not what I want to do. From full screen Superman can really do what he wants. Grounded lasers, air lasers, ground lasers etc until he has bar for a mb. Meanwhile I'm trying to inch my way forward and any counter bats I throw push me backward.

Mid screen is the toss up. I'm close enough that Superman can jump for the air laser read then air dash forward for a j2 f23 combo, or dash backwards for more air lasers or just neutral jump and make me pause expecting something. Regardless mid screen there's control. Unless I'm making a hard read on it Batman is not in the lead here either. I can have trait out but trait's only useful on reaction to Superman's offense. I release them preemptively and lose them or they track badly. Not to mention a conversion off them isn't even gurateneed. Some pressure yes but if I didn't take a hit this entire time, I maybe have a single bar. Maybe.

By the time I'm close enough to use buttons I'm already in f23 range where I don't have the ability to challenge him. His normals are too fast. My normals are all negative enough that a d1 can challenge without much fear even with bats out. Block f23 breath, now it's time for a guessing game where throughout the entire game Batman does not have the offense. He is defensively guessing Superman's offense. Assuming I managed to get trait out and keep it at this point, this is when I'd have the biggest chance to get something started but that's a lot of ifs.

Throughout this entire situation unless I hard read a mb grapple or up bat or mb upbat I don't see how Batman is going even let alone winning this MU. So someone help me out here. I don't understand what makes Batman win this MU outside of people just over respecting his pressure.
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He replied like that because it's obvious you haven't labbed the matchup. Backdash at the start of the round and whiff punish his f2. After f23 on block you can probably batarang and beat all of his options, and if it doesn't beat all of them than meterburn will.
 
Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
Two First Names said:
He replied like that because it's obvious you haven't labbed the matchup. Backdash at the start of the round and whiff punish his f2. After f23 on block you can probably batarang and beat all of his options, and if it doesn't beat all of them than meterburn will.
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Your saying after f23 breath on block Batman can actually throw a bat and won't get entirely stuffed by a follow up f23
 
ATP2014

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
I personally think Batman vs Superman is even. But I am in the minority there. Can explain if needed.
 
Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
Two First Names said:
Batarangs move backwards. But if you're right and that doesn't work double backdash will.
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I have done double back dash to avoid it. Most time the first back dash will make f2 whiff but I'm still in range for the 3 (sometimes it'll make both whiff but the distance for that is weird). I can then back dash again but now on defense again because he'll recover before me.

That's where the whole, hard read mid range comes from that can turn it my favor or take 400 damage and straight into the corner.
 
T

Two First Names

Noob
Harlequin969 said:
I have done double back dash to avoid it. Most time the first back dash will make f2 whiff but I'm still in range for the 3 (sometimes it'll make both whiff but the distance for that is weird). I can then back dash again but now on defense again because he'll recover before me.

That's where the whole, hard read mid range comes from that can turn it my favor or take 400 damage and straight into the corner.
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Jump back instant air sparkles get creative
 
Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
ATP2014 said:
I personally think Batman vs Superman is even. But I am in the minority there. Can explain if needed.
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The only reason I could believe Batman used to beat Superman was because of Bat pressure. Like I'm watching Theo v King and that's the biggest thing going on here that gave Batman an edge. Now this MU is at best a 5-5.

Other times King is getting a good up bat, trait, mb grapple conversion.
Other times Theo just won't stop jumping and is hanging himself.
 
TheGangstaFace

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
@Harlequin969 @ATP2014 I used to think the matchup was even too but Foreverking actually helped me out with this one. You wanna play the midscreen game. He wins the zoning war for sure but once you get in mid screen start throwing up bats. Superman players wanna jump cuz of the lasers or the air dash and they're certainly terrified of a mechanical bat. So if they jump and get hit by an up bat, you confirm into shooting the mechanical bat for a full combo with Mb grapple. And once superman isn't jumping then you control the midscreen range like Batman does in a lot of matchups. As far as the start of the round goes, you can actually forward jump or backdash to avoid f23. Oh also if the Superman keeps air dashing you, you better punish that shit with your 6f D2. It's for sure 6-4 Batman
 
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Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
TheGangstaFace said:
@Harlequin969 @ATP2014 I used to think the matchup was even too but Foreverking actually helped me out with this one. You wanna play the midscreen game. He wins the zoning war for sure but once you get in mid screen start throwing up bats. Superman players wanna jump cuz of the lasers or the air dash and they're certainly terrified of a mechanical bat. So if they jump and get hit by an up bat, you confirm into shooting the mechanical bat for a full combo with Mb grapple. And once superman isn't jumping then you control the midscreen range like Batman does in a lot of matchups. As far as the start of the round goes, you can actually forward dash or backdash to avoid f23. Oh also if the Superman keeps air dashing you, you better punish that shit with your 6f D2. It's for sure 6-4 Batman
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Thanks. The mid screen upbat control and conversions is definitely something I want to work on. My issue with backdashing f23 is just that more often than not I still have to block the 3 which puts me in the same position. Double backdashing is risky for the most part. I haven't been able to get d2 punishes on air dash into j2 but I think that's a mix of my unfamiliarity with it as an aa and online causing me some trouble.
 
TheGangstaFace

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Harlequin969 said:
Thanks. The mid screen upbat control and conversions is definitely something I want to work on. My issue with backdashing f23 is just that more often than not I still have to block the 3 which puts me in the same position. Double backdashing is risky for the most part. I haven't been able to get d2 punishes on air dash into j2 but I think that's a mix of my unfamiliarity with it as an aa and online causing me some trouble.
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Probably. Im gonna post a link to my stream. Check the archive for yesterday where I played a set with a friend of mine. I'm no King and he's no Theo but it shows how the matchup should be played from Batman's end
 
ATP2014

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
I understand the power of up bat vs Superman. But at the same time, Superman doesn't need to do air lasers or jump. At mid-range, you can dash punch, ground laser, walk forward f2, or backdash to get back into a zoning position.

Considering that Superman wins full screen and point blank, I don't think that Batman's advantage at mid-range is enough to justify Batman winning 6-4. I have played quite a few Superman players, but none post-patch.
 
TheGangstaFace

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
ATP2014 said:
I understand the power of up bat vs Superman. But at the same time, Superman doesn't need to do air lasers or jump. At mid-range, you can dash punch, ground laser, walk forward f2, or backdash to get back into a zoning position.

Considering that Superman wins full screen and point blank, I don't think that Batman's advantage at mid-range is enough to justify Batman winning 6-4. I have played quite a few Superman players, but none post-patch.
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Superman is fucked in pressure situations and free on knockdown and dash punch is a high lol. When Batman can do Batman things he can wreck. Also Superman not being able to jump is a big disadvantage. Quite a few mind games come from superman being airborne
 
Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
TheGangstaFace said:
Superman is fucked in pressure situations and free on knockdown and dash punch is a high lol. When Batman can do Batman things he can wreck. Also Superman not being able to jump is a big disadvantage. Quite a few mind games come from superman being airborne
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Despite having all the answers for the MU I think it's a 5-5 just because if Batman makes the wrong read he's losing a lot of health and positioning advantage. Like I think for both character's there's not a lot of room for error if both players are playing on point.
 
TheGangstaFace

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Harlequin969 said:
Despite having all the answers for the MU I think it's a 5-5 just because if Batman makes the wrong read he's losing a lot of health and positioning advantage. Like I think for both character's there's not a lot of room for error if both players are playing on point.
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Nah superman has a lot more to lose. A full combo into a restand when he makes a mistake or just a full combo into more pressure. Superman sends you almost full screen. And Mb roll and mechanical bats at the same time can really blow up his lasers
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Champion
For the record I think it's 5-5 but 6-4 Superman is preposterous imo.

The reason I didn't post detailed information to help is because you posted as if certain situations are set in stone when you clearly haven't explored all of your options, and that annoyed me.
 
Meep8345

Meep8345

Apprentice
Two First Names said:
He replied like that because it's obvious you haven't labbed the matchup. Backdash at the start of the round and whiff punish his f2. After f23 on block you can probably batarang and beat all of his options, and if it doesn't beat all of them than meterburn will.
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Two First Names said:
Batarangs move backwards. But if you're right and that doesn't work double backdash will.
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What? You are literally saying its obvious he hasn't labbed the MU but neither have you?
 
T

Two First Names

Noob
Meep8345 said:
What? You are literally saying its obvious he hasn't labbed the MU but neither have you?
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I don't have to to know that backdashing works consistently (just tested it) I play Grodd and used to pocket both of them. I didn't lab the match up for other options because that one works consistently, so what you read was a bunch of theory fighting. Just labbed it now though. S1 blows through f23 f23 as well.
 
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