Balance Change Council

[THTB]

Jade?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

how is delayed tele3 not a good mid HC string?

I'm clearly just asking here.... i mean... KL can jump alot in most matches... and this is how you approach (till people learn to back dash at least).

Because the teleport is an easy move to punish.
Also it wouldnt work in the scenario I'm talking about, against Cage using KL you wouldnt land a d3 and then go into tele delayed 3, he'd need all of his 1121 string to hit mid and start at 9f or something and a 7f d3 to compensate for an 8f spin.

Also, KL can only jump as much as his opponent allows it, remember that.

 

[Big Pampering]

how is delayed tele3 not a good mid HC string?

I'm clearly just asking here.... i mean... KL can jump alot in most matches... and this is how you approach (till people learn to back dash at least).

how are you going to start offense with delayed tele 3? youd get blown up just think about it.

 

[THTB]

I'M WITH YOU ON THIS ONE, lAO DOESN'T NEED ANY NERFS, SCRUBS DON'T KNOW HOW TO POKE OUT OF HIS PRESSURE, MOST IF PRESSURE, IT SEEMS TO BE THAT THEY PLAY TOO MUCH ONLINE, kUNG lAO IS PERFECTLY BALANCE, ONLY SCRUBS AREN'T.
tHIS GAME jUST NEED BUFFS ON LOW TIERS AND LEAVE TOP THE WAY THEY ARE, BUFFING LOWS AND NERFING TOPS WILL UNBALANCE THE GAME AND LOWS WILL BE TOP TIER, THIS THREAD MAKES ME PUKE, I THOUGHT NO THREAD LIKE THIS WILL EVER BE MADE. I'LL START SOME DRAMA SOON SO IT IS CLOSED DON'T WORRY.

It's called smart balancing. No one said bottom tiers had to be buffed to top tiers and top tiers nerfed to low tiers.

I like really strong shit, but there's honestly a point when just buffing the weaker characters isn't enough. You have to overcompensate to truly balance that way.

Foxy, in order to deal with KL's jumping you have to basically do nothing if he jumps, or guess.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

how are you going to start offense with delayed tele 3? youd get blown up just think about it.

not really... you can set the move up fairly easily.

I get what you all are saying though. Was just curious how you coudln't count that move as a good HC mid.... because it is. His pressure comes from fear.... and you have to fear that move.... because you have to anticipate a teleport when he jumps in/away.
And lets be honest.... 80% of the cast are only going to take about 30% max on an AA combo. and 99.9% of the players still try to d1 teleport. so yeah.

 

[Big Pampering]

It's called smart balancing. No one said bottom tiers had to be buffed to top tiers and top tiers nerfed to low tiers.

I like really strong shit, but there's honestly a point when just buffing the weaker characters isn't enough. You have to overcompensate to truly balance that way.

its not fair for someone who has worked that much on a character to get nerfed. it is only fair if you buff the characters that are not good enough, that way the low tier character players will be happy and high tier players can keep playing their game and find new stuff instead of stuff to replace their stuff they already worked so hard on.

just close the gap a little, not too much just to be sure, you dont want to overbuff a character

 

[THTB]

its not fair for someone who has worked that much on a character to get nerfed. it is only fair if you buff the characters that are not good enough, that way the low tier character players will be happy and high tier players can keep playing their game and find new stuff instead of stuff to replace their stuff they already worked so hard on.

just close the gap a little, not too much just to be sure, you dont want to overbuff a character

There's nothing wrong with nerfing a character, so long as the nerfs you bring don't change the character into an overall different character that is flat out horrible. What I mean is, it is possible to nerf a character, and not alter their playstyle whatsoever.

Maybe the KL changes aren't the best, and maybe we're bitching. LET US BITCH, THOUGH XD! I'm kidding, but if you could realistically balance KL, what would you do?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

not really... you can set the move up fairly easily.

I get what you all are saying though. Was just curious how you coudln't count that move as a good HC mid.... because it is. His pressure comes from fear.... and you have to fear that move.... because you have to anticipate a teleport when he jumps in/away.
And lets be honest.... 80% of the cast are only going to take about 30% max on an AA combo. and 99.9% of the players still try to d1 teleport. so yeah.

Alot of the fear comes from the 6f spin, make it 8f then people arent gonna fear doing a d3 or d1 after everything, he doesnt even have a mid hitting move to properly punish a d1.

There's nothing wrong with nerfing a character, so long as the nerfs you bring don't change the character into an overall different character that is flat out horrible.

Maybe the KL changes aren't the best, and maybe we're bitching. LET US BITCH, THOUGH XD! I'm kidding, but if you could realistically balance KL, what would you do?

KL isnt broken, so dont fix him.
In a perfect game, KL would be like he is now. The reasons KL beats characters badly as he may right now, is not because he's rediculous, but because the other characters lack an answer themselves.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Alot of the fear comes from the 6f spin, make it 8f then people arent gonna fear doing a d3 or d1 after everything, he doesnt even have a mid hitting move to properly punish a d1.




KL isnt broken, so dont fix him.
In a perfect game, KL would be like he is now. The reasons KL beats characters badly as he may right now, is not because he's rediculous, but because the other characters lack an answer themselves.

fair enough. I pretty much have no qualm with that.

I wish KL was the balance in this game. Everyone needs a schtick like KL. You last thought was the best one by far.

 

[THTB]

Alot of the fear comes from the 6f spin, make it 8f then people arent gonna fear doing a d3 or d1 after everything, he doesnt even have a mid hitting move to properly punish a d1.




KL isnt broken, so dont fix him.
In a perfect game, KL would be like he is now. The reasons KL beats characters badly as he may right now, is not because he's rediculous, but because the other characters lack an answer themselves.

Foxy, there's something wrong when it's a number of characters who have a problem with something another character has. You can't just give all these characters answers to one character because it affects everyone else in the process. You may give a character one thing to deal with one particular matchup, but then it can potentially affect every other matchup the character has...which admittedly, Konqrr's changes are likely not the solution.

 

[Konqrr]

I just really hate how a 6f move is a launcher, has a hitbox from head to toe, front to back, and gives him over 30%. It is too late to do anything about it now. He should have a string launcher and a different mid-hitting move that is useful instead.

 

[Maxter]

It's called smart balancing. No one said bottom tiers had to be buffed to top tiers and top tiers nerfed to low tiers.

I like really strong shit, but there's honestly a point when just buffing the weaker characters isn't enough. You have to overcompensate to truly balance that way.

Foxy, in order to deal with KL's jumping you have to basically do nothing if he jumps, or guess.

Those smart balances discussed here can ruin a character completely, imagnie Lao spin was 8 frames,: after any blocked combo string any character , can just spam a low poke, any low pokes interrupt Lao's pressure.
his d1 is 7 frames and d3 like 9, all his standing moves are avoided by poking, no matter how slow those pokes are, he won't hit them with his combo strings, and b3 is too slow, his only move to make people respect his pressure after combo strings is the spin, people always fear a spin is loosed at point blank range, as i said before we here are no developers and we have no idea to balance a game, threads like this have been made several times, and they all suck. Lao is Balanced and doesn't need nerfs really, he was touched many times.

 

[GamerBlake90]

GamerBlake90 When would you want to do this?

I can do this on any day of the week.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

he was touched many times.

You make it sound like he was molested

 

[THTB]

Those smart balances discussed here can ruin a character completely, imagnie Lao spin was 8 frames,: after any blocked combo string any character , can just spam a low poke, any low pokes interrupt Lao's pressure.
his d1 is 7 frames and d3 like 9, all his standing moves are avoided by poking, no matter how slow those pokes are, he won't hit them with his combo strings, and b3 is too slow, his only move to make people respect his pressure after combo strings is the spin, people always fear a spin is loosed at point blank range, as i said before we here are no developers and we have no idea to balance a game, threads like this have been made several times, and they all suck. Lao is Balanced and doesn't need nerfs really, he was touched many times.

That's why I went on to say maybe these aren't the right changes, as well as commented on what Foxy said about characters not having answers for KL's stuff.

While that isn't the direction that should be taken, there's still this particular problem...what do you propose doing that would:

1. Keep KL intact, yet truly ideal and...
2. Not cause characters to have something that dramatically affects their positions on the tier list to the point where everything is flip flopped.

Because that is a particular problem that came to light from what Foxy said.

 

[Seapeople]

Those smart balances discussed here can ruin a character completely, imagnie Lao spin was 8 frames,: after any blocked combo string any character , can just spam a low poke, any low pokes interrupt Lao's pressure.
his d1 is 7 frames and d3 like 9, all his standing moves are avoided by poking, no matter how slow those pokes are, he won't hit them with his combo strings, and b3 is too slow, his only move to make people respect his pressure after combo strings is the spin, people always fear a spin is loosed at point blank range, as i said before we here are no developers and we have no idea to balance a game, threads like this have been made several times, and they all suck. Lao is Balanced and doesn't need nerfs really, he was touched many times.

I think the difference in this thread from others like it is that nobody's really taking it seriously since there's never going to be another patch, so there's no harm done in making wishlists imo.

 

[THTB]

I think the difference in this thread from others like it is that nobody's really taking it seriously since there's never going to be another patch, so there's no harm done in making wishlists imo.

Pretty much. I mean, to an extent, it's a serious discussion, because it's an interesting concept. But it's not like anyone expects anything out of this. It's no more than a fun project to do.

 

[Big Pampering]

Foxy, there's something wrong when it's a number of characters who have a problem with something another character has. You can't just give all these characters answers to one character because it affects everyone else in the process. You may give a character one thing to deal with one particular matchup, but then it can potentially affect every other matchup the character has...which admittedly, Konqrr's changes are likely not the solution.

the only nerfs would maybe limit his mobility slightly so matchups like noob, kenshi and those kind of character dont lose 7/3 matchups. maybe instant 3 being negative on block. but its such a small change, there are much bigger issues. for example noob saibot is a horrible character to begin with and kenshi is a really good character already , kung lao is his only 7/3 at the highest level, while kenshi himself wrecks a lot more characters 7/3.

 

[THTB]

the only nerfs would maybe limit his mobility slightly so matchups like noob, kenshi and those kind of character dont lose 7/3 matchups. maybe instant 3 being negative on block. but its such a small change, there are much bigger issues. for example noob saibot is a horrible character to begin with and kenshi is a really good character already , kung lao is his only 7/3 at the highest level, while kenshi himself wrecks a lot more characters 7/3.

This is what I'm talking about! Shit like this...doesn't have to be dramatic nerfs...just little stuff that can aide in some matchups becoming better for characters without having to resort to giving characters the ARNOLDASFUCK treatment.

Hell, I agreed that Reptile's elbow dash should be -20. This would help characters like Sindel, Stryker, and Jade, without having to resort to a number of huge changes that could affect a lot of other things in the process.

 

[NariTuba]

It would remove a big amount of resets (the ones that require two bombs to be placed) while keeping his one bomb and ex bomb 60% combos intact.

He could still take 86% in the corner with 1 bar, 72% midscreen 1 bar and 80% midscreen with 2 bars

 

[Rathalos]

Kabal

Reduce meter gain on Gas Blast and Nomad Dash by 75%.
Fix NDC 2.
Increase damage scaling on his BnB's by a bit.
Severely increase the damage scaling after a EX ND.

Scorpion

Fix the winning animation for costume 2.

 

[Konqrr]

He could still take 86% in the corner with 1 bar, 72% midscreen 1 bar and 80% midscreen with 2 bars

Damn lol... leaky boat ftw

Would one net per combo plus the one bomb during combo fix this dude?

 

[THTB]

Damn lol... leaky boat ftw

Would one net per combo plus the one bomb during combo fix this dude?

My second net adjustment! Seriously, if the opponent never hits the ground when the bomb hits them, how can a reset occur?

Rathalos, GB takes 27 to build a bar without having it blocked, and you need 44 NDCs to get a bar.

 

[Rathalos]

My second net adjustment! Seriously, if the opponent never hits the ground when the bomb hits them, how can a reset occur?

Rathalos, GB takes 27 to build a bar without having it blocked, and you need 44 NDCs to get a bar.

Every little bit helps.

Make F4 cost a bar of meter.

 

[THTB]

Every little bit helps.

Make F4 cost a bar of meter.

Lol.

I honestly can't wait to hear what REO would do to help balance Kabal.