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Balance Change Council

PPJ

()
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
I'd give Kabal these buffs:

EX dash now does 5% damage
11b43 now +1 on block
212 now special cancellable
b2 increased damage
X-ray now does 36%, has full armor, and -12 on block

nerfs will come later
 

NariTuba

disMember
You can remove the resets by turning every frame of an airborne second net into airborne state, and extend the net's hitstun.
Remove their hitbox entirely for the duration of the second net animation. That might work... however, they would just time the net earlier so they come out of it just in time for BAM, bombzzzz.
That's what NRS did for patch 1.05, they extended the invincibility of the opponent while caught on the second net. It denied previously available net resets but just like you said it took Tony-T about 24hs to find a way to delay the reset so theyd get relauched.

Extending the invincibility causes other problems too, like giving Cyrax a free mixup after a second net. As it stands, the slow dissolving net is +11 which gives you a 4 frame window to connect his fastest jab IF they are at point blank range (in the corner). Midscreen you need to sacrifice damage for positioning to make it work.
If they extend the invincibility you get more time to connect with standing one, ie time to dash into position, so you can get even more damage AND the mixup.

The airborne state during second net would work, they would be relaunched but it would combo so the gravity and scaling would still be on. I wouldnt know if thats a variable that can be directly tweaked, but it makes sense.

Removing the second net entirely would also work. The only reset left would be the b2 reset (like someone mentioned before in this thread). I dont fully understand it tho... TONY-T you think the b2 reset can be made to be consistent if the net resets were to be taken out?
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
That's what NRS did for patch 1.05, they extended the invincibility of the opponent while caught on the second net. It denied previously available net resets but just like you said it took Tony-T about 24hs to find a way to delay the reset so theyd get relauched.

Extending the invincibility causes other problems too, like giving Cyrax a free mixup after a second net. As it stands, the slow dissolving net is +11 which gives you a 4 frame window to connect his fastest jab IF they are at point blank range (in the corner). Midscreen you need to sacrifice damage for positioning to make it work.
If they extend the invincibility you get more time to connect with standing one, ie time to dash into position, so you can get even more damage AND the mixup.

The airborne state during second net would work, they would be relaunched but it would combo so the gravity and scaling would still be on. I wouldnt know if thats a variable that can be directly tweaked, but it makes sense.

Removing the second net entirely would also work. The only reset left would be the b2 reset (like someone mentioned before in this thread). I dont fully understand it tho... TONY-T you think the b2 reset can be made to be consistent if the net resets were to be taken out?
Removing the second net entirely, though, takes away his standing reset entirely...that's a big reason I suggest it. I don't wanna see that option taken away.
 

NariTuba

disMember
Removing the second net entirely, though, takes away his standing reset entirely...that's a big reason I suggest it. I don't wanna see that option taken away.
I know, I was against this too when it was first suggested. Honestly he wouldnt lose much at all tho... he can still end the combo with a hanging net if he didnt start with a net... which would mean we would all start hit confirming into Exbomb like Kitanas have been doing for a while now. As far as catching them with a raw net you can still get a solid bomb setup and 50+% out of it midscreen, and a hard knockdown setup in the corner...
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
i honestly cant see anyone getting it consistent. i cant get it consistent. maybe 1 out of 5 attempts? I think if it was left in, it wouldnt be considered a threat.
This is saying a lot, because your combo execution is really high...arguably moreso than some top players.
 

NariTuba

disMember
i honestly cant see anyone getting it consistent. i cant get it consistent. maybe 1 out of 5 attempts? I think if it was left in, it wouldnt be considered a threat.
Thats what I thought from the combos I tried. I think its more consistent when you use the second hit of b2 only, but I only got that after weird specific circumstances. Maybe changing the combo around this can make it consistent?

EDIT: you know what nevermind... I just tried for a while and it seems very random regardless of how you use the b2.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Because the teleport is an easy move to punish.
Also it wouldnt work in the scenario I'm talking about, against Cage using KL you wouldnt land a d3 and then go into tele delayed 3, he'd need all of his 1121 string to hit mid and start at 9f or something and a 7f d3 to compensate for an 8f spin.

Also, KL can only jump as much as his opponent allows it, remember that.
I agree it's easily punished if read, but then again is it really? I mean PL stole Evo TWICE doing the shit! It can't be that bad lol.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Can somebody please explain the point behind this change that people say NW needs, despite the fact that he doesn't even have an overhead that's not later in a string?
It would still make him better nonetheless, anything that makes him better he needs lol
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
It would still make him better nonetheless, anything that makes him better he needs lol
It wouldn't even make him better. Defending is predominantly done in crouch block anyway, and since Nightwolf doesn't even have a single-hit overhead, the f3 being low is pointless. There's already no reason to stand block...unless you give him an overhead, it's literally a change that doesn't do anything.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
It wouldn't even make him better. Defending is predominantly done in crouch block anyway, and since Nightwolf doesn't even have a single-hit overhead, the f3 being low is pointless. There's already no reason to stand block...unless you give him an overhead, it's literally a change that doesn't do anything.
Well than make his f2 an overhead, that would be pretty tight lol. Nightwolf would be kind of similar to Liu Kang if he had a low combo starter and an overhead that gave frame advantage on hit
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Well than make his f2 an overhead, that would be pretty tight lol. Nightwolf would be kind of similar to Liu Kang if he had a low combo starter and an overhead that gave frame advantage on hit
f2 leads to free lightning lol. He gets a combo on either option, so long as he has a bar.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
f2 leads to free lightning lol. He gets a combo on either option, so long as he has a bar.
That's what I'm saying, Nightwolf would be a ton better if f3 was a low and f2 was an overhead. Than this character would actually have "mixups." If he obtained these buffs along with f3 and f31 being neutral on block, and f3 having a faster startup, Nightwolf could actually be very tournament viable
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
I have always thought like what if they put the frame data in the options on a fighting game, and you could change the start up frames of any move, and change the +/- on block and on hit of every single move in the game... than you could actually fix and balance the game by yourself and play with your friends at home. That would be tight as fuck! lol
 

ShadowBeatz

Dropper of Bass and Bombs
I have always thought like what if they put the frame data in the options on a fighting game, and you could change the start up frames of any move, and change the +/- on block and on hit of every single move in the game... than you could actually fix and balance the game by yourself and play with your friends at home. That would be tight as fuck! lol
Excuse me while I fap to the idea of Net being +50 on block
 
This is what I'm talking about! :) Shit like this...doesn't have to be dramatic nerfs...just little stuff that can aide in some matchups becoming better for characters without having to resort to giving characters the ARNOLDASFUCK treatment.

Hell, I agreed that Reptile's elbow dash should be -20. This would help characters like Sindel, Stryker, and Jade, without having to resort to a number of huge changes that could affect a lot of other things in the process.
all those characters need buffs. the problem I have with nerfing and buffing at the same time: for example sonya-subzero used to be 4-6 or worse. after the nerfs to subzero and buffs to sonya, it became 6-4 sonya favor which is stupid. you cant be fair by making one winning matchup a losing one for a character. they can only make it fair by making it a little less to the point where it is 5-5 or almost a 5-5.
 
I have always thought like what if they put the frame data in the options on a fighting game, and you could change the start up frames of any move, and change the +/- on block and on hit of every single move in the game... than you could actually fix and balance the game by yourself and play with your friends at home. That would be tight as fuck! lol
injustice will have this, and I believe I heard doa players say they have the framedata ingame as well.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
all those characters need buffs. the problem I have with nerfing and buffing at the same time: for example sonya-subzero used to be 4-6 or worse. after the nerfs to subzero and buffs to sonya, it became 6-4 sonya favor which is stupid. you cant be fair by making one winning matchup a losing one for a character. they can only make it fair by making it a little less to the point where it is 5-5 or almost a 5-5.
Of course. What I'm highlighting, though, is particular instances where something causes a particular problem with several characters that needs to be addressed. It doesn't have to be very large changes...just small alterations here and there to help compress the gaps between bottom and top.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
injustice will have this, and I believe I heard doa players say they have the framedata ingame as well.
On DOA it tells you all the frame data, but you can't change it. I'm saying if you could actually change the frame data of any move you want yourself in the options menu or something. Like let's say if I wanted Stryker to be better, just go to options and change the start-up frames of his b1 to like 8 frames. It would be so sick if you were actually in control of the frame data yourself and you could change whatever you want and just play the game like that with your friends
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
On DOA it tells you all the frame data, but you can't change it. I'm saying if you could actually change the frame data of any move you want yourself in the options menu or something. Like let's say if I wanted Stryker to be better, just go to options and change the start-up frames of his b1 to like 8 frames. It would be so sick if you were actually in control of the frame data yourself and you could change whatever you want and just play the game like that with your friends
That would seriously screw you up when you go to a tournament though lol
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
That would seriously screw you up when you go to a tournament though lol
That's true lol. Didn't think of that. But you have to admit that would be pretty sweet to just balance the game yourself, or just have fun some nights and give characters ridiculous shit :D
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
That's true lol. Didn't think of that. But you have to admit that would be pretty sweet to just balance the game yourself, or just have fun some nights and give characters ridiculous shit :D
Ya, maybe they could give you the ability to save your settings and share them online and maybe there ends up being some sort of tournament standard that everyone had to use at them....

with that all said...can you imagine the insane amount of arguing about buffs and nerfs that would go on? It wouldn't be worth it lol.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
While a really cool idea, the constant up playing and downplaying would be atrocious lol. Constant patches by the communit. You would have to set up a rule where official patches could only be released like once every 30-60 days lol.