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Aw, C'mon Puddin' -- Harley Quinn General Discussion Thread

Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Ramon said:
you cant keep harley full screen. She can dash safely between shots with no worries unless you do MB low shots, then she just has to wait. you're respectable full screen zoning ends after 2 dashes. and you have a 50/50 that puts me at the end of the stage...cool so you do around 35% with all the chip but with one guess your lead will melt away along with you staying in my face with no wakeup. It's not pretty.
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DS doesn't need her always at fullscreen , her wakeups are pretty limited so whenever i get a combo on her i can option to vortex her for free so you're looking at 30%+vortex wich your wakeups can't beat and i can punish even going for the vortex,into a 50/50 or throw OR i can simply take around 35% and put her fullscreen again and start to back up into gunshots and interactables wich she can barely use because gunshots.

Yes with one guess she does more damage but that's pretty much every character with over 40% damage does to deathstroke , doesn't matter because in the end he decides the pace of the match.

Her chances do go up when she gets a lifelead tho, that's why i'm keeping it at 6-4 DS favor
 
deg222

deg222

Best Zatanna that uses Aquaman
IMO, there's no way in hell DS Harley MU is in Harley's favor. Sure we can get in 2 dashes after 2 blocked/whiffed gunshots, but gunshots aren't his only tools. He has both great offensive options (f3 +10ish on block for example) and good air control. His J3 is pretty hard to AA, if he does a deep J3, you can AA it with d2, if he does an early J3, you have to crouch underneath it because a d2 will get stuffed. And we can't simply air to air with j1 because then he can opt to use his j1 which beats ours.

Even though we do much more damage than him, it's not always easy to start the offense on DS.
 
Jermball

Jermball

Noob
Crathen said:
DS doesn't need her always at fullscreen , her wakeups are pretty limited so whenever i get a combo on her i can option to vortex her for free so you're looking at 30%+vortex wich your wakeups can't beat and i can punish even going for the vortex,into a 50/50 or throw OR i can simply take around 35% and put her fullscreen again and start to back up into gunshots and interactables wich she can barely use because gunshots.

Yes with one guess she does more damage but that's pretty much every character with over 40% damage does to deathstroke , doesn't matter because in the end he decides the pace of the match.

Her chances do go up when she gets a lifelead tho, that's why i'm keeping it at 6-4 DS favor
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harley can deal with zoning, but she still gets screwed by it. I would say this is true, but most of DS wakeups are predictable and unsafe (sword flip GUARENTEES full combo B22 punish that leads into another mixup. LGS can be jumped and gunshoted, and this is your best option considering harley can spam gunshots and prevent HGS or machine gun shot from starting up. Let me ask this crathan, when you vortex.. does anyone try PD vs it? thats invincible on wake-up, and tantrum stance should only be used to get out unless they produce reckless offense. I still believe based on how good the DS can keep harley out of her sweet spot this match is 6-4, but if harley has experince against DS, it's 5-5 def.
 
Ramon

Ramon

Heavenly Harley
deg222 said:
IMO, there's no way in hell DS Harley MU is in Harley's favor. Sure we can get in 2 dashes after 2 blocked/whiffed gunshots, but gunshots aren't his only tools. He has both great offensive options (f3 +10ish on block for example) and good air control. His J3 is pretty hard to AA, if he does a deep J3, you can AA it with d2, if he does an early J3, you have to crouch underneath it because a d2 will get stuffed. And we can't simply air to air with j1 because then he can opt to use his j1 which beats ours.

Even though we do much more damage than him, it's not always easy to start the offense on DS.
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your J2 stuffs his J3. The matchup is in her favor
 
Ramon

Ramon

Heavenly Harley
Crathen said:
DS doesn't need her always at fullscreen , her wakeups are pretty limited so whenever i get a combo on her i can option to vortex her for free so you're looking at 30%+vortex wich your wakeups can't beat and i can punish even going for the vortex,into a 50/50 or throw OR i can simply take around 35% and put her fullscreen again and start to back up into gunshots and interactables wich she can barely use because gunshots.

Yes with one guess she does more damage but that's pretty much every character with over 40% damage does to deathstroke , doesn't matter because in the end he decides the pace of the match.

Her chances do go up when she gets a lifelead tho, that's why i'm keeping it at 6-4 DS favor
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Also you cant J3 for free on wakeup. I can Wakeup SS to get out of there. Even the DS players here are doing anti Harley stuff and still losing. DS is 6-4 if you dont know how to be patient. which is most peoples problems
 
deg222

deg222

Best Zatanna that uses Aquaman
Ramon said:
well i guess i cant change your mind on it. so w.e
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I'm telling you his different options, and you're ignoring them saying our j2 beats all his options. You can test it in training if you want.
 
Ramon

Ramon

Heavenly Harley
deg222 said:
I'm telling you his different options, and you're ignoring them saying our j2 beats all his options. You can test it in training if you want.
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you mentioned 2 things... His jump 3 and Jump 1... so if he jump 1's more often then not then you can d2 his option or Cupcake bomb him... what else did you mention? nothing...
 
deg222

deg222

Best Zatanna that uses Aquaman
Ramon said:
you mentioned 2 things... His jump 3 and Jump 1... so if he jump 1's more often then not then you can d2 his option or Cupcake bomb him... what else did you mention? nothing...
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Oh now you're acknowledging that I talked about his j1. You didn't acknowledge it before.
Ramon said:
your J2 stuffs his J3. The matchup is in her favor
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And yeah, of course you can d2 early jump attacks, I was already said that. But good players don't spam a flowchart all day, they mix it up. I'm just saying DS has some air control against Harley. There's no 1 clear answer to keep him from going into the air. And no, MB cupcakes is not the clear answer, he can always straight/low gun you as long as you're not at TS range.
 
Ramon

Ramon

Heavenly Harley
MB Cupcakes trade from mid screen if he feels like shooting you. i'll take the KND so i can dash it 2 times and take the small damage.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Ramon said:
Also you cant J3 for free on wakeup. I can Wakeup SS to get out of there. Even the DS players here are doing anti Harley stuff and still losing. DS is 6-4 if you dont know how to be patient. which is most peoples problems
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Ok , video incoming. every option she has on wakeup can be punished even if i j3 and it doesn't take much to make a read and simply pressure on your wakeup once i've trained Harley to either block or SS on wakeup. PD doesn't work and gets j3 into combo.

I agree tho on j2 stuffing DS j3 and j2 just because the height restriction DS normals have , still j1 is usable on a read but i don't really need to jump in on Harley all the time and if you're A2a with j2 you're not doing it on reaction but on a read at certain distances wich is basically a guess and can be baited either way.

Who are the deathstroke players you play?
 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
i dont know if aris is going to Summer Jam. personally, i dont know this matchup well enough to call it. it kinda just seems like whoever gets their momentum first usually wins. but i will say for the most part DS seems to do better with interactables. harley overall does more damage but its whatever. it seems like DS needs to hit 3 times and she needs to hit 2 times. so its not that big of a deal. both charcters have pretty good mixup potential. harley j2 is 3 frams faster than ds j1 or j2 so thats probably why it beats it out but also keep in mind that the sword doesnt have a hurtbox, so DS shouldnt be using it as an air to air unless he is at the range where only the sword will touch harley. neither character really seems to have something that they have too incredibly hard of a time dealing with. i'd say its pretty even and its just a matter of who can make better reads. i'd say if anything it MIGHT be 5.5-4.5 either way. harley does more damage while DS i feel can win the full screen game. jump up and shot doesnt really become an option until shes about mid screen, and at that point it should be pretty reactable to and you shouldnt be using low guns in that range anyway unless you're mighty ballsy.
 
serge

serge

Noob
I feel DS can use the maps to his advantage but Harley can't. This is pretty much the only thing that can make it not 5-5. Good luck getting in on DS in watchtower's reactor hehe.
 
serge

serge

Noob
Yeah I thought Ferris was the worst too but then I changed my mind when a DS camped the right side of the Watchtower reactor with guns, robots and 10 sec recharge laser beam :( Both require a lot of focus and patience.
 
Awkward Sloth

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
I'd say the deathstroke MU is 4.5-5.5 in Deathstrokes favor. Serge brought up intractables. Any level with reusable spanwning interactables shifts that close MU to his favor hands down.
 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
well in games that stages have an effect on the match, the matchup can sway in one character's favor or the other. i don't know how harley is with interactables so im not sure. i would say though that on certain stages like stryker's island, watchtower, ferris, themyscira and insurgency Deathstroke does better in
 
Jermball

Jermball

Noob
As far as stage interables, I feel harley best benefits from the roombas in hall of justice, or any corner interactable that doesn't result in an interactable dynamite.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
So how do you guys feel about not being able to forward dash GL b13xxclose rocket? can't even MB b3/f3 to punish it because it's too slow and he can block , also she doesn't get to punish b1(backdash here )3 so she doesn't have good options to stop him from abusing it on Harley.

Edit: she can d3 to avoid the rocket ( sweep will whiff ) but the recovery on her sweep is long enough that GL can b13 again and punish it
 
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