Breakthrough ATTN NRS: HawkGirl Fixes/Issues/Requests

[RunwayMafia]

RunwayMafia I was testing b2 vs KF ducking and I noticed that during KF's ducking animation how her head moves up and down that the b2 would only hit when her head is near the highest point and would whiff when her head is lower.

lol @ moving hitboxes due to stance animations... this has been in MK since mk1 though ;_;

I got you...I will film it in the morning...AGAIN, welcome to the team.

 

[TAS_DASH]

1. Would 8 frames of invul be enough to dodge a move? Well if the dash is fast enough, it probably will. I like the idea of it using a meter, I didn't think of it. Also would the input be direction+mb or direction twice+mb?

I was thinking hold plus MB in flight only not jumping. 8f+ plus the idea of moving away from the incoming person or projectiles should be enough, since you could pick one of 8 directions.

 

[HushoftheWind]

I was thinking hold plus MB in flight only not jumping. 8f+ plus the idea of moving away from the incoming person or projectiles should be enough, since you could pick one of 8 directions.

Dash i remember not to long ago you brought some issues up with Hawkgirl. Just wanna to say thanks for lighting the spark. Hopefully NRS will see the fire.

 

[doubleperfect]

Wow!!! some you are just slow... the other threads are my proof of some of your hypocrisy... anyways Boodendorf since you have been civil for a long while, which is appreciated, here's what I came up with after giving it thought. Her weakness is nidscreen options and damage, so add to that so if flight is negated she can still romp.




3. at least 2 frames less on her b3 so 123 b3 is no longer a just frame. Lobo needs this, too

4. b2 consistent mid with less pushback on hit, so b2,2 hits more often, giving her legit mix-up pressure

5. at least 1-2 more strings that connect WE2 like b2

6. More chip Mace Toss and a true mid Mace Toss. (Supes horizontal laser gets 5% for horizontal)





9. WE1 have real value

10. Maybe a couple of frames removed from her dashes. This will allow more consistent follow ups to 112 midscreen. Is 2 on 112 overhead? If not, then make it overhead.

This I feel would improve her chances drastically, but she'll still have bad match-ups which is what every character needs.

you sir are smart and no im not being sarcastic

i been lurking on the hawk thread for a long time, (hawks my main) and her mid game needs some tweeks but nothing too abusive. right now she almost has everything she needs to be a balanced character. the only problems i have with hawkgirl right now is some of her high damage combos dont work on slim characters mostly the female cast (exception wonderwoman)and perhaps flash. another issue that i think that should be addressed is her interactable background bounch on some stages she cannot covert to b3 after the bounce (located middle of stage), it doesnt make me displease since i still have f3 that does hit. the idea behind b3 is more for positioning for other interactables/to push them to the corner which you want badly.

another thing that should be addressed to help her mid game is that again the interactable in the middle of stage in some strings you are trying to combo into misses b/c of the hurtstun if you pause game you will notice the move barely misses(characters head swings low ). i think they should slightly give it a slight increase on the hitbox when she swings for that it connects on everyone. seems to hit big characters like grundy/doom

other than that im ok with whats been mentioned by you. now im only suggesting tweeks not buffs.

and if i had to say what i want to be buffed is the range on standing 1 to have a bit more reach. a smoother/faster transition into WE from some block strings would be nice; so far almost all of hawkgirls strings if blocked and you converted into WE your opponent can react mashing d2 and you wont be able to hit him on time even if you timed your fastest move during WE in the first frame into your special.

anyways thats just a few things in mind. have fun chatting.

 

[doubleperfect]

also side note; there is no inconsistency from doing the string 1,2,3 into b3. the main culprit for the move missing is probably playing online so there is gonna be lag making the move harder to hit.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

also side note; there is no inconsistency from doing the string 1,2,3 into b3. the main culprit for the move missing is probably playing online so there is gonna be lag making the move harder to hit.

This. Right. Here.

 

[RunwayMafia]

also side note; there is no inconsistency from doing the string 1,2,3 into b3. the main culprit for the move missing is probably playing online so there is gonna be lag making the move harder to hit.

No. Sir, you may be one of the individuals that can boastfully claim it isnt inconsistent...but there are plenty of us offline players who have noticed it is in fact NOT smooth nor consistent. Boodenforf, DanCock and myself all play offline, we all see how inconsitent it is...it has nothing to do with online because we aren't referencing online.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Yawn.

Yeah, and I can do B1~trait 2 MC MB~trait 1 MC like it's nothing too.
Online.
Blindfolded.
With one hand.
And only 2 of my fingers.
And none of those fingers are my thumb.

 

[doubleperfect]

if you can sho

No. Sir, you may be one of the individuals that can boastfully claim it isnt inconsistent...but there are plenty of us offline players who have noticed it is in fact NOT smooth nor consistent. Boodenforf, DanCock and myself all play offline, we all see how inconsitent it is...it has nothing to do with online because we aren't referencing online.

if you can show me a video of it completley wiffing or hawkgirl in some stall/recovery animation after 1,2,3 than ya i would say its inconsistent. but in my personal experience when i do hit the string i have not come across a time where i whiffed it on good execution. not being rude here just pointing it out. im all for making b3 faster but not b/c we have problems hitting the move after 1,2,3 but because in some stages like atlantis/watchtower (reactor) and themyscira the middle interactable where you can slam the opponent into CANNOT be converted into b3 against most characters, the reason why it doesnt work is b/c they hit the background faster than when they do in other stages such as fortress of solitude/hall of justice and strykers island (few others)

 

[Tiger Wong]

if you can sho

if you can show me a video of it completley wiffing or hawkgirl in some stall/recovery animation after 1,2,3 than ya i would say its inconsistent.

I don't think you're understanding what he's saying.

If there was a stall/recovry animation after the 123 then that wouldn't mean it was inconsistent. It would be buggy and need to be fixed.

The problem is, you can use the same exact timing/feel to the combo and sometimes it would hit and sometimes it wouldn't. That's inconsistent. When the conditions are perfect and the results are different, THAT'S inconsistent.

 

[Jon Berg]

Are you serious? Is like another Jon Berg? Wait a minute...is this the same fella that came in talking mad shit about how he had "video proof" of his HawkGirl being better than all of ours....? or some shit...I do remember a fool that started all kinds of shit and when people disagreed with him he just went crazy and Espio had to warn him...

? Why am I even being mentioned? Because I don't share the same mentality as you can look at my own character in a neutral light? This character is perfect the way she is. Not a single change needs to be made.

 

[doubleperfect]

i do understand, but as i said not once has that happened to me when i play HG when i have the "feel" of the timing of the move.

i understand inconsistency, what i dont understand is if the same timing is involved why not show a video demonstrating the move missing on same timing?

 

[HushoftheWind]

? Why am I even being mentioned? Because I don't share the same mentality as you can look at my own character in a neutral light? This character is perfect the way she is. Not a single change needs to be made.

like i said before we have a glorious "thingy"(internet) - Aris reference - that we can use to settle our differences with. I say you guys put up or shut up and fight it out in a long set.. Maybe Jon Berg have all the answers that we need and can really make this character shine on a high level.....or maybe Mr. Berg have no clue what dafuq he's talking about and needs a reality check on why this thread was actually made. Either way get on xbox live/psn fight, and gain knowledge .

On another note, I was thinking Hawkgirl's 22 should cause a ground bounce so she can have another to combo into her b3. Just a thought.

 

[nuttyAFA]

ask sinestro players about hitting b3 off of b1,3
ask zod players about hitting b3 after a dash in following mb ground laser
ask batgirl players about hitting b3 after mb bf3

yes, it is really annoying that a character like green lantern can do mb lift, shotgun a beer, and still easily land b3, while hawkgirl players have to learn the timing. but it's not even the hardest b3 to link in the game, and saying b3 should be buffed so the 1,2,3 combo is easier is foolhardy

now other reasons for buffing b3 i can understand a little more. for instance, being able to hit b3 off of f1~mb mace toss up shoulder would make sense. the issue with jump ins followed by a fast poke beating it is annoying, but dont a lot of characters b3 have this issue as well?

i DO think her dash needs a little love though. For instance, you can WE2, then do 2,2 and it ground bounces the opponent in a way that you think for sure you can dash and continue the combo, but nope. there is like a 1 frame window where you can connect a dash into d1 but it sucks and i certainly dont have the skill to pull it off regularly. plus a (slightly) better dash would make the deathstroke matchup not as much of a hopeless nightmare, like give me a chance to move toward him with patience other then a lucky jump mace toss or my opponent trying air gun shots randomly

to be clear a SLIGHT dash buff, not like bane level dash buff

 

[TheSpore]

I've read most of these requests and I agree to an extent on many, her B3 is too slow, after spending a descent amount of time trying to connect her 123 with it, it is too inconsistent. I tried different methods of timing it right and in the end it would hit here and there and then never at all. Do I honestly feel this is an issue, not completely, for if you absolutely have to throw in a B3, bounce cancel it end of the story, your likely going to gain the same amount of damage just by following up with 123,123,B1,MC,MB. Her trait being shutdown by certain characters, well now as a HG player you need to play a game of patience and find that opening and STOP relying on the trait. Her trait cannot be a crutch and as a HG main you must learn how to fight without having it in your toolset. Sin. players play a mean ass zoning game with falling rocks and throwing their balls all over the place, you have to learn to play the rush-down game with him be ready for those wake-ups at all times. Wake-ups are what gets him his space when you get in on him and you have to be ready for them. When you face DS wake-ups just expect them its his biggest strength in a close range fight. At range when he plays those gun games, you have to play mind games pop up in the air and make him expect to use flight often, jump and throw a horizontal mace and I bet you will eventually hit him, because he is just typically itching to use those air guns. BG, poses a semi-problem, just bait that damn smoke bomb and blow her ass up, she has to take risk after risk in a match. This is why I honestly just don't see any problem with her trait, HG can do things to get around those that shut her flight down, does it make a match easy for her, no, but again sometimes you gotta just work for that cookie.

People want to try and play the combo game while using this chick, She is just not that kind of character, you have to understand every single tool she has and know how to use it, because her combo ability is low, her corner game yeah that's amazing, but we cannot rely on it nor her trait to make life easy for us. In order to run this character you have to use your brain and be the most unpredictable basterd to ever play. Now before I go on to what I say needs to fixed with her, I leave this last bit, HG has 3 strings that give her the advantage of playing evil mind games up close, that tend to be difficult for some players to adapt to. These strings are 2,2;B2,2;B2,3;B2,2,3. If you mix those up b2b up close you will confuse the piss out of an opponent.

Now what needs to be fixed, I agree her drop kick needs to be a HKD, it makes no lick of sense why its not, seriously you drop right on top of the opponent. The B2 issue on some characters needs addressing, it is kinda dumb that just because KF moves her head a millimeter down a B2 whiffs, that's just outright idiotic. Her MT has way too much recovery time and start-up, this however is remedied by what I call an IAMT, it is possible (not easy though) throw a mace barely lifting off the ground with her and the ariel throw is faster, but I agree speed it up a notch just so your not a lame duck waiting for a punish.

Many of you will disagree with what I say, that's fine I am asking to at least be respectful about it. I have been maining this character since day one and I have had to hear so many people claim she is horrid and is downright un-usable in match-ups and yet I have managed to find ways to mange her in these match-ups. The problem is no one seems to truly understand this character, since almost no FG out there has a character of this nature in it.

Again I digress in saying the main issue is many of the HG mains wanna fly all day long and the truth is you have to learn to not use that trait, also meter management is key to her success as well. Honestly I hardly ever even use that trait, most times I use it to play mind games with her.

Anyway this my damn 2 cents for whatever it is worth, prolly nothing, but hey its my opinions and just like assholes we all got one!!!
-EDIT- Now that was a lovely tea-party

 

[RunwayMafia]

? Why am I even being mentioned? Because I don't share the same mentality as you can look at my own character in a neutral light? This character is perfect the way she is. Not a single change needs to be made.

Lol...no no no. This has absolutely nothing to do about not "sharing the same mentality" and/or looking at "our character in a neutral light". I bring you up because a while back you made some rather absurd comments regarding how her Mace Charge should be even more negative on block to the point of it being punishable. When asked why you want this for your character, you replied with her being a rather brain dead character or some non sense. That is not neutral...that's nonsense.

It is rather peculiar that you and some other members WHO CONTRIBUTE VIRTUALLY NOTHING to this community, decide to make an appearance in a post created by actual HawkGirl mains, pleading their case to the creators of the game. The majority of day 1 HawkGirl mains, who do actually compete offline with this character, all agree that the issues presented in the OP are legit. But noooo, apparently you and the other members (who have only showed up to praise the suggestions of the other members who NEVER post in the HG forums) all think it's so consistent to connect B3 after 123. That's rubbish. I'm certainly no stranger to landing high execution combos and neither is Espio, Boodendorf, Eternal Blaze, and AspyxiaDyslexia. This is not a problem on our end, it's just simply inconsistent.

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with my thoughts and or opinions. But you, and these other members who only showed up to start shit and make false claims, have actually stated publicly that you feel nerfs are in order and that HG is rather brain dead. So of course I'm going to remember you...

 

[RunwayMafia]

TheSpore
First off, I'd like to thank you for posting your well thought out opinions and addressing what you think should be done with this character.
Secondly, thank you for being YET ANOTHER day 1 HawkGirl main that agrees the link between 123 and B3 is in fact inconsistent on a mechanical level. I agree with most of your thoughts, especially about HawkGirl being like no other fighter in a game...ever. You literally have the option of fighting from the air or being a rush down Hawk, considering, at least imo, the fact that she has such a solid ground game.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Exactly! Random people that doesn't even come to the Hawkgirl forums is coming here and saying that 1,2,3 B3 is consistent, dosagreeing with a lot of our actually LEGIT FIX requests... So please if you are going to come here saying things like that at least come with proofs... Mafia actually spent time recording the issues we wanted to show to NRS... There is a video of Mafia showing how inconsistent B3 after 1,2,3 is... Then random people comes saying another thing... Omg please get out of this thread & in Jon Berg's case keep asking for Hawkgirl nerfs. Bye.

 

[TheSpore]

TheSpore
First off, I'd like to thank you for posting your well thought out opinions and addressing what you think should be done with this character.
Secondly, thank you for being YET ANOTHER day 1 HawkGirl main that agrees the link between 123 and B3 is in fact inconsistent on a mechanical level. I agree with most of your thoughts, especially about HawkGirl being like no other fighter in a game...ever. You literally have the option of fighting from the air or being a rush down Hawk, considering, at least imo, the fact that she has such a solid ground game.

I appreciate your agreeing, when I started on HG, I was officially confused about her, I typically would go after a character like CW or KF, which I did play for a lil while, but kept coming back to her for some odd reason. Since day 1 I tried to get that 123 B3 thing to work and just gave up since I need to have strategies I can rely on, being from the military I need things to work every time. Also her B3 just IMO doesn't lend itself to be useful once it connects, I find better variety and better damaging combos when I don't use it. I am no pro nor do I claim it, I am hoping to hit majors with this character and what I find is she is just simply a situational character. Knowing the match-ups are extremely important, because each match-up forces you to adapt to that character's style. I get more practice in the Flash match-up and I am gonna warn all of you HG players, you better learn that one, because in the end of a match with a good Flash your hands are gonna hurt, but his key issue is patience.

Again I see issues that need to be addressed and B2 is one, as well as her dive kick, just for some reason the rest flees me right now. Her trait I just don't have problems with, again learn to not rely on it. HG is very flexible and when big wigs start to unlock and exploit her she is gonna become a big topic of discussion and many are gonna scream for nerfs with her.

 

[Tiger Wong]

And about the B2 mess, I have nailed it down to how, when, and who it hits crouchers.......

B2 pretty much never hits a ducking Flash unless you're touching him while he's exhaling.
Vs KF follow her breathing as well for the B2 to connect. If she's exhaling it won't connect. If she's inhaling it will connect.
With Batgirl, if you're touching it'll connect no matter what. If you're not touching her, it's all about the breathing. If she's inhaling, it hits. If not, it doesn't.
When WW is in SS and she's exhaling and HG isn't touching her, the B2 doesn't connect. If HG is touching her, the HG connects.
Vs Ares it never hits if he's exhaling and if you're not touching him. If you can catch him at the top of his exhale AND you're touching, it will connect everytime.
This is without a doubt, the gayest system I have ever found out/used for connecting a move.

So yeah, B2 needs to be a true mid. The way this thing is hitting/whiffing based on when a character breathes...... is pretty retarded.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

And about the B2 mess, I have nailed it down to how, when, and who it hits crouchers.......

B2 pretty much never hits a ducking Flash unless you're touching him while he's exhaling.
Vs KF follow her breathing as well for the B2 to connect. If she's exhaling it won't connect. If she's inhaling it will connect.
With Batgirl, if you're touching it'll connect no matter what. If you're not touching her, it's all about the breathing. If she's inhaling, it hits. If not, it doesn't.
When WW is in SS and she's exhaling and HG isn't touching her, the B2 doesn't connect. If HG is touching her, the HG connects.
Vs Ares it never hits if he's exhaling and if you're not touching him. If you can catch him at the top of his exhale AND you're touching, it will connect everytime.
This is without a doubt, the gayest system I have ever found out/used for connecting a move.

So yeah, B2 needs to be a true mid. The way thise thing is hitting/whiffing based on when a character breathes...... is pretty retarded.

Lmao yes! Omg sp we must watch to our opponent and watch their breathings to connect it... Sounds legit

 

[TheSpore]

And about the B2 mess, I have nailed it down to how, when, and who it hits crouchers.......

B2 pretty much never hits a ducking Flash unless you're touching him while he's exhaling.
Vs KF follow her breathing as well for the B2 to connect. If she's exhaling it won't connect. If she's inhaling it will connect.
With Batgirl, if you're touching it'll connect no matter what. If you're not touching her, it's all about the breathing. If she's inhaling, it hits. If not, it doesn't.
When WW is in SS and she's exhaling and HG isn't touching her, the B2 doesn't connect. If HG is touching her, the HG connects.
Vs Ares it never hits if he's exhaling and if you're not touching him. If you can catch him at the top of his exhale AND you're touching, it will connect everytime.
This is without a doubt, the gayest system I have ever found out/used for connecting a move.

So yeah, B2 needs to be a true mid. The way thise thing is hitting/whiffing based on when a character breathes...... is pretty retarded.

(There are so many bad dirty comments I can make about this whole when HG is touching the comment its unreal)
I didn't realize the B2 was that bad actually, I tested on KF just few min. ago and saw what you all meant. This thing does need to be a true mid, because just because a character is breathing shouldn't make that string whiff.

 

[TheSpore]

Lmao yes! Omg sp we must watch to our opponent and watch their breathings to connect it... Sounds legit

Great now we need to know the frame count on their flipping breathing habits

 

[RunwayMafia]

Tiger Wong Thank you for the exact characters...I'm going to film all of that tonight and update the original post.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Great now we need to know the frame count on their flipping breathing habits

Yes, ;____;