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Breakthrough ATTN NRS: HawkGirl Fixes/Issues/Requests

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.

Fix/Buff: B3 is an issue. The speed simply needs to be increased. Showcased in the video above is her string 123 and the attempt to connect B3 afterward. This is so inconsistent that it is very reminiscent of Sindel's B3, F2~Yell, where it sometimes connected, most of the time did not. NRS later patched Sindel's string allowing for the yell to connect MUCH easier and smoother. This needs to be the case for HG's B3. Simply speed up her B3 so her 123 and 12~Wing Evade (2) can connect smoothly with her B3. Otherwise, the only CONSISTENT way of connecting her B3 is to LITERALLY mash 3 while holding Back during the motion. This is unnatural and needs to be fixed. :)

Also, in regards to her B3, countless times her MB'ed B3 has been stuffed from Jump In's due to the motion being so slow. (video above) The opponent literally has enough time to complete the Jump In and continue attacking, THUS rendering her armor useless and THUS stuffing/ending her armored B3.


Fix/Buff: Many of the members in the HawkGirl community have sworn that her "Heavenly Stomp" (D3 from the air) was once a "Hard Knock Down". I know that I tested this a while back and the opponent/computer (when assigned to roll) COULD NOT ROLL after a landed D3. I believe at one time it was known that D3 was only a HKD after a juggle combo, not a raw D3. Either way, if this was a nerf or a "normalization", we would kindly like it back. It is essential to her oki game and so many of us have adapted to including the D3 at the end of our combos simply for the HKD. This is essential for her game/mixups/oki set ups. :)


Fix/Request: The in game data states that the ground mace toss is a mid. Some opponents can duck it, some cannot. We would like this to be a TRUE mid, whereas it will hit a ducking opponent. Considering her atrocious recovery on Mace Toss, this is reasonable. :)


Fix: HawkGirl's B2 is listed as a mid. In the video above I demonstrate how it will sometimes connect when she is literally touching the opponent and how it sometimes whiffs. Also, take note that it is dependent of the opponents breathing...B2 will whiff while they are exhaling, it will connect while inhaling. This move should be a true mid and connect every time . I would also suggest extending the range on this move as you can clearly see it whiffing even though the mace is traveling directly above the opponents head.


Fix: As you can see in the video above, SOMETIMES HawkGirl has a ridiculous "pop up" motion after a whiffed MB'ed Mace Toss, and sometimes does not. This is absolutely unnecessary and is clearly an in-game mechanical error. We would like this to be fixed, leaving HawkGirl with no recovery frames on a whiffed MB'ed Mace Toss...because clearly SOMETIMES she does not "pop up", leaving her at 100+ recovery frames. This kindly needs to go. ;)


Fix: In the video above, I showcase the stance specific link between 32 into mace toss (MB) and 32 into bounce cancel F3. HawkGirl has to be facing in the other direction (stance) than her opponent for this to connect. Stance should not matter.

Honorable mentions/requests:
1.) If in fact we were stripped of her Hard Knock Down after her Heavenly Stomp, we would like Mace Charge to revert back to being 0 on block. This is perfectly reasonable as it is her only SAFE "footsie" tool. Without the HKD off of a landed/mid combo "Heavenly Stomp", we will need something to compete with.

2.)This is a long shot but it has been discussed by the community in great detail. In order to deal with her terrible MU's, where the opponent can completely shut down her trait (flight in the air), the introduction of an air dash (only while in flight), or the ability to block/MB while in flight, should be implemented. This would allow us to stay in the air/continue to attack in the air, against opponents like Sinestro, Martian Man Hunter, BatGirl, DeathStroke, Lex Luthor, Cyborg, etc., and would cost a bar of meter, or two, in order to somehow substantiate her flight against said characters.

colt hecterrific GGA Slips Please consider these requests as well as address the obvious bugs/fixes needed for HawkGirl. Your attention is much appreciated.

Kindly Signed,
The very small yet dedicated HawkGirl community ;)
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
* Yes! Please increase the speed of B3 the Ctual speed is NOT normal! It can be defeated... So the "MB B3 on reaction" is almost impossible for this character. And this will also open her combo game way more.

* Idk maybe it was an error or something, but heavenly stomp was a hard knockdown at least a month ago... 100% sure.

* Well this heavenly stomp not being a hard knockdown took out our wake up pressure, so AT LEAST i would like you to make heavenly stomp a hard knockdown again, or make mace charge 0 on block (maybe both ;) )

* And ground mace toss is actually a move that we can NEVER touch... Since it's only a mid at full screen, the recovery is horrible, but well at least make it a mid please. Actually this move is only used to build meter canceling it.
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
I hit the B3 off 123 consistently so I see no reason to speed it up but I do agree with the rest of the OP
That doesn't mean it's "consistent". There is something inherently off with this connection...just like Sindels B3, F2~Yell...which they corrected in a later patch.
 

Boodendorf

Bird woman!
colt hecterrific
RunwayMafia you should've mentioned more in details about the flight buff ideas:

The buffs needed we thought of were:
1)She should be able to block projectiles AND ONLY PROJECTILES during flight by holding back. Would help a lot against her horrible/completely unwinnable matchups such as Sinestro, Deathstroke...

2)When the MB button is pressed during flight, she'll /instantly/ gain armor for a limited time, this will help a lot against teleports and the like, making it possible to react to them and punish. Meter taken would be 1.3/2 since it's a very special case and could be too powerful if the meter cost is too low.

I've thought of another buff and I'll post it in the general thread so I can see what the HG community thinks of it before posting it there.
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
RunwayMafia you should've mentioned more in details about the flight buff ideas:

The options we thought of were:
1)She should be able to block projectiles AND ONLY PROJECTILES during flight by holding back.

2)When the MB button is pressed during flight, she'll /instantly/ gain armor for a limited time, this will help a lot against teleports and the like, making it possible to react to them and punish. Meter taken would be 1.3/2 since it's a very special case and could be too powerful if the meter cost is too low.

I've thought of another buff and I'll post it in the general thread so I can see what the HG community thinks of it before posting it there.
Edit this post and and tag Colt and Hecterrific if you want them to read it. I was unsure of the details...
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
I hit the B3 off 123 consistently so I see no reason to speed it up but I do agree with the rest of the OP
Also, it is WIDELY agreed upon by many skilled HawkGirl's that B3 is atrociously unreliable offline. It can be landed but it is very unnatural and rigid. This should not be. And lol at Jon Berg liking this comment...the only fake HG player demanding more nerfs for HG.
 

Jon Berg

Noob
Also, it is WIDELY agreed upon by many skilled HawkGirl's that B3 is atrociously unreliable offline. It can be landed but it is very unnatural and rigid. This should not be. And lol at Jon Berg liking this comment...the only fake HG player demanding more nerfs for HG.
Havnt played HG much lately, been playing lobo and bane. But I recorded a quick 30 second or w/e video of back to back to back 123 b3's despite having not touched the character lately. Spend 20 mins in the lab doing it, and you can time it well. You can even hear my button hits so you can see im not mashing out the b3. Quite easy.

I agree with everything else you posted minus the air blocking though. And the pop up after mace toss is not random. It happens anytime you whiff the charge OTHER than when you are at max fly height. So if you instant air do it and miss, you will pop up. I think its the game trying to ensure the proper recovery frames for max height even if you are lower.
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
Havnt played HG much lately, been playing lobo and bane. But I recorded a quick 30 second or w/e video of back to back to back 123 b3's despite having not touched the character lately. Spend 20 mins in the lab doing it, and you can time it well. You can even hear my button hits so you can see im not mashing out the b3. Quite easy.
Again, this does not mean it's "quite easy" or consistent. It most def. should be sped up to ensure reliability. This is why I constantly mention the adjustment they made to Sindel's ability to link a special move (yell)...some players would gloat that it was easy to land but we all knew it felt odd, unnatural, and rigid. They (NRS) later patched this and made it more smooth. Why are you against such a small request that MANY agree upon.

NOT TO MENTION how it get's stuffed (the MB'd version) by many Jump ins. They should NOT be allowed to follow through with their Jump In and CONTINUE attacking, robbing HG of her ARMOR and essentially stuffing the move. This happens because it is too slow.
 

Jon Berg

Noob
Again, this does not mean it's "quite easy" or consistent. It most def. should be sped up to ensure reliability. This is why I constantly mention the adjustment they made to Sindel's ability to link a special move (yell)...some players would gloat that it was easy to land but we all knew it felt odd, unnatural, and rigid. They (NRS) later patched this and made it more smooth. Why are you against such a small request that MANY agree upon.

NOT TO MENTION how it get's stuffed (the MB'd version) by many Jump ins. They should NOT be allowed to follow through with their Jump In and CONTINUE attacking, robbing HG of her ARMOR and essentially stuffing the move. This happens because it is too slow.

Yea the MB part sucks, but I dont think things that are execution related mean they are a problem. That would be like going over to SRK and complaining that 1 frame links are too hard and you should make them easier for me. You would get laughed out.
 

Boodendorf

Bird woman!
colt hecterrific
RunwayMafia
Another thing that was forgotten:
The recovery after mace toss up shoulder on hit shouldn't change based on the stance (front/back/whatever it is). Sometimes there's no recovery giving you enough time to do a b3, sometimes there's too much recovery to only be able to try and land 123 correctly. I dunno, make the up shoulder's hitbox bigger or something so that the recovery will be universal and only depending of how close you are to your opponent or something. Not asking for a 0f recovery every single time, but make it so that we only have to worry about how far we are, and not of how far AND what stance the opponent has, that's too difficult.
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
Yea the MB part sucks, but I dont think things that are execution related mean they are a problem. That would be like going over to SRK and complaining that 1 frame links are too hard and you should make them easier for me. You would get laughed out.
One-frame links are actually incredibly stupid and force people to waste their time learning to do them correctly or how to whore out tricks (plinking) to make their lives easier. The only thing it changes is training mode investment, and if Capcom weren't so relentlessly Japanese - which is to say, blithely stubborn - they would have corrected it. Never, ever use SF4 as a standard for anything. It's the bible of how not to make a game.
 

Jon Berg

Noob
One-frame links are actually incredibly stupid and force people to waste their time learning to do them correctly or how to whore out tricks (plinking) to make their lives easier. The only thing it changes is training mode investment, and if Capcom weren't so relentlessly Japanese - which is to say, blithely stubborn - they would have corrected it. Never, ever use SF4 as a standard for anything. It's the bible of how not to make a game.

I see what you are saying, and while I disagree completely its not even like her 123 b3 is a 1 frame link regardless, so I went a bit extreme there. Its far, FAR easier.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Yea the MB part sucks, but I dont think things that are execution related mean they are a problem. That would be like going over to SRK and complaining that 1 frame links are too hard and you should make them easier for me. You would get laughed out.
Why are you against this? This is going to make her gameplay/combos way easier! I know it's possible... But it's still not consistent... People sometimes only goes for 1,2~WE(2) instead of 1,2,3 B3 because of how inconsistent it is.
 

Jon Berg

Noob
Why are you against this? This is going to make her gameplay/combos way easier! I know it's possible... But it's still not consistent... People sometimes only goes for 1,2~WE(2) instead of 1,2,3 B3 because of how inconsistent it is.

Because its not needed in the slightest. Everyone in this community seems to want to be spoon fed everything about this game. From matchups to combos. Put in a little bit of time, and this "needed buff" turns into a non-issue. Thats why I'm against it. There should be a reward for learning timings in this game.