Breakthrough ATTN NRS: HawkGirl Fixes/Issues/Requests

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

What? Sorry but you downplaying the character we KNOW is not free... Doesn't make her free! If she is that free why don't you pick up another character and stop downplaying our character! Her only two ALMOST impossible match ups are Sinestro, Batgirl & Martian Manhunter (IMO) all the other match ups are pretty playable! Yes... They take out our flight! Well then learn how to rushdown my friend, learn how to be patient, learn how to get close slowly! But stop downplaying our characterz, she doesn't suck, she is not top tier, but she is not free. Sorry. All she needs is that B3 being faster and heavenly stomp being a hard knockdown again! Another buffs would help against her 3 horrible match ups.
TAS_DASH

 

[RunwayMafia]

RunwayMafia

You do know he and M2Dave are the same person right?

Are you serious? Is like another Jon Berg? Wait a minute...is this the same fella that came in talking mad shit about how he had "video proof" of his HawkGirl being better than all of ours....? or some shit...I do remember a fool that started all kinds of shit and when people disagreed with him he just went crazy and Espio had to warn him...

 

[Boodendorf]

allow armor in flight for a 1.5-2 secs for a bar of meter or allow MB air Mace charge to MB instantly and receive multiple hits of armor or be projectile invincible (mace reflects projectile theory)

1.5/2 sec is waaay too long, especially if it's only one bar of meter.

15 to 20 frames for 1.3/2 meter seems more balanced.

 

[TAS_DASH]

That seems fair Boo. but what about DS gunshots multiple hits? How long does that last?

 

[Tiger Wong]

Yeah, unsurprisingly he's just trolling with his "look at me" shit.

Just pay attention to the very little that he says that makes sense. I know it's gonna be hard because most trolls say nothing worth a shit. Just try to make the most of it.

 

[M2Dave]

RunwayMafia

You do know he and M2Dave are the same person right?

LOL.

You are a fool.

Unfortunately, Hawkgirl is receiving no buffs/fixes any time soon, so I suggest you guys look for another character.

 

[Tiger Wong]

That seems fair Boo. but what about DS gunshots multiple hits? How long does that last?

What multiple hit gunshot? You can't possibly be talking about the up rifle are you? The air gun shot is the real threat and it's just a two-hitter. Not that slow up rifle. That's never been a problem.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

LOL.

You are a fool.

Unfortunately, Hawkgirl is receiving no buffs/fixes any time soon, so I suggest you guys look for another character.

Why we would do that? Sorry but ulike you & that other DASH guy we don't downplay her

 

[Boodendorf]

That seems fair Boo. but what about DS gunshots multiple hits? How long does that last?

Well technically since it's about 20 frames of superarmor (meaning that she has an infinite amount of SA during that time? I was thinking about 1 hit of armor if the flight projectile block was in, but new animations means the chance is slim), I believe that the hitstop caused by the bullets hitting Hawkgirl should make the armor last longer, even the mb bullets.

Then again that's only if she has multiple hits of superarmor during those 20 frames, which should be 4 to completely beat the "worst" case (DS MB air gunshot).

 

[Tiger Wong]

LOL.

Hey look! Just as TADash was typing in a thread, here comes M2dave! Wow. In a character thread that he obviously thinks blows. So why would he be here? What would draw him into this thread? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

 

[Boodendorf]

What multiple hit gunshot? You can't possibly be talking about the up rifle are you? The air gun shot is the real threat and it's just a two-hitter. Not that slow up rifle. That's never been a problem.

MB version hits 4 times I believe.

 

[RunwayMafia]

ANYWAY...back to business... Tiger Wong I need you to figure out which characters the B2 is whiffing on so I can film it and put it in the OP. I'm also going to film the stance specific bull shit regarding 32~MB MT...

 

[Tiger Wong]

MB version hits 4 times I believe.

Of course. Got turned around for a sec.

 

[Tiger Wong]

ANYWAY...back to business...@Tiger Wong I need you to figure out which characters the B2 is whiffing on so I can film it and put it in the OP. I'm also going to film the stance specific bull shit regarding 32~MB MT...

I can't lab until sunday.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Boodendorf is there anything you'd like me to film and add to the OP so we can all of our requests/bugs/fixes organized in the main post?

 

[RunwayMafia]

I can't lab until sunday.

Well, last night I tested Frost and CW....and the b2 would in fact hit them while ducking...but not consistently...sometimes it would go right over their heads twice....and without moving forward or backward I would do it again...and it would hit...so it seems inconsistent.

 

[Boodendorf]

Boodendorf is there anything you'd like me to film and add to the OP so we can all of our requests/bugs/fixes organized in the main post?

I can't really think of anything else right now, I think you've got most of the stuff covered.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Well, last night I tested Frost and CW....and the b2 would in fact hit them while ducking...but not consistently...sometimes it would go right over their heads twice....and without moving forward or backward I would do it again...and it would hit...so it seems inconsistent.

The times I remembered it the most where vs Flash and GA. But just like you said, it's not an everytime thing.

Frankly I eliminated the move from my list of things I try to do unless........
- I land a 22 before it.
- as a punisher (mainly B23).
- the opponent is against the wall. This is the time where B2 didn't whiff the most.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Guys i found another issue to make her B3 faster. Those interactibles that are at the middle of the screen, scoops(?) well once we use them we can't B3 because of how slow is this.
Everyone else can, including Flash

 

[TAS_DASH]

Wow!!! some you are just slow... the other threads are my proof of some of your hypocrisy... anyways Boodendorf since you have been civil for a long while, which is appreciated, here's what I came up with after giving it thought. Her weakness is nidscreen options and damage, so add to that so if flight is negated she can still romp.

1. No armor or air block ability as then she'd be broken. Maybe a octo directional air dash like Doom's in MVC3. It should have 8 frames of invulnerability like a back dash at the cost of a bar. This will allow you to evade jump projectiles, boulders, and teleports.

2. consistent comboed MBMT up shoulder not dependent on closed stance.

3. at least 2 frames less on her b3 so 123 b3 is no longer a just frame. Lobo needs this, too

4. b2 consistent mid with less pushback on hit, so b2,2 hits more often, giving her legit mix-up pressure

5. at least 1-2 more strings that connect WE2 like b2

6. More chip Mace Toss and a true mid Mace Toss. (Supes horizontal laser gets 5% for horizontal)

7. Mace Toss going corner to corner if she is at max flight.

8. Give Mace Charge priority over d2's.

9. WE1 have real value

10. Maybe a couple of frames removed from her dashes. This will allow more consistent follow ups to 112 midscreen. Is 2 on 112 overhead? If not, then make it overhead.

This I feel would improve her chances drastically, but she'll still have bad match-ups which is what every character needs.

 

[Espio]

Alright...this discussion needs to stick to the actual focus of fixes/adjustments for Hawkgirl.

This drama is ridiculous and unnecessary. Any future posts derailing the thread will be deleted from here on out.

 

[Icy Black Deep]

7. Mace Toss going corner to corner if she is at max flight.

THIS. (Actually making the move of the type hold forwards for far and backward for close might be more keeping with the style of other moves.)
Being able to stay in flight [by air blocking] isn't worth much because flight isn't worth much. She can't DO anything in flight.
If you're looking to buff flight buff something she does while flying too. Otherwise just come out and say flight is only for running away without taking chip damage and the odd trait-cancel combo.

And then give her a mobility buff (she has wings for goodness sake!). Because the only movement she has worth anything are specials that sacrifice her body, and characters that shut that down (or have good risk-reward throwing out things that shut that down) make for really bad matchups.

 

[Tony at Home]

Ouch... so many problems...

I was thinking about picking up HawkGirl as my secondary to replace Scorpion- since Scorpy seems to have alot of glitchy issue with his strings randomly missing, and a ton of combos being very hitbox dependent...

But HawkGirl seems to be very much in the same boat.

I hope they fix her, or at least Scorpion. I'm tired of not being able to find a reliable secondary character

 

[Boodendorf]

Wow!!! some you are just slow... the other threads are my proof of some of your hypocrisy... anyways Boodendorf since you have been civil for a long while, which is appreciated, here's what I came up with after giving it thought. Her weakness is nidscreen options and damage, so add to that so if flight is negated she can still romp.

1. No armor or air block ability as then she'd be broken. Maybe a octo directional air dash like Doom's in MVC3. It should have 8 frames of invulnerability like a back dash at the cost of a bar. This will allow you to evade jump projectiles, boulders, and teleports.

2. consistent comboed MBMT up shoulder not dependent on closed stance.

3. at least 2 frames less on her b3 so 123 b3 is no longer a just frame. Lobo needs this, too

4. b2 consistent mid with less pushback on hit, so b2,2 hits more often, giving her legit mix-up pressure

5. at least 1-2 more strings that connect WE2 like b2

6. More chip Mace Toss and a true mid Mace Toss. (Supes horizontal laser gets 5% for horizontal)

7. Mace Toss going corner to corner if she is at max flight.

8. Give Mace Charge priority over d2's.

9. WE1 have real value

10. Maybe a couple of frames removed from her dashes. This will allow more consistent follow ups to 112 midscreen. Is 2 on 112 overhead? If not, then make it overhead.

This I feel would improve her chances drastically, but she'll still have bad match-ups which is what every character needs.

1. Would 8 frames of invul be enough to dodge a move? Well if the dash is fast enough, it probably will. I like the idea of it using a meter, I didn't think of it. Also would the input be direction+mb or direction twice+mb?

2.Yes, that's been pointed out in the thread already though but yes.

3.Sure.

4.Sure.

5. Like what? Pretty sure every of her useful strings already link to we2 (though I'd like it if 22 actually linked into we2).

6. Yes.

7. Yes, this would be most helpful in some matchups like Green Lantern. But that'd completely kill the Harley matchup imo, you'd just have to turtle all day and she wouldn't be able to do a thing.

8. I dunno, I think it's fine that it get beaten by some d2, imo MC shouldn't be changed. But I'd love it if it did outprioritize Zod's charge soooo...

9. I'd like it if you had the possibility to aim it by giving an extra input like f or df, it'll also be a great combo ender because of the damage it does. Maybe even possibly replace b1 we3 with b1 we1 during her corner combos? Not sure how much damage it'd give but definitely more (even though that's not what she needs).
An MB version of this move could work just like WW's mb tiarat throw, boomerang that you could combo after or something.

10. Well I'd definitely like it if her normal dash had less recovery frames, but I think it wouldn't be necessary if air dash for 1 meter gets implemented.

 

[Konqrr]

RunwayMafia I was testing b2 vs KF ducking and I noticed that during KF's ducking animation how her head moves up and down that the b2 would only hit when her head is near the highest point and would whiff when her head is lower.

lol @ moving hitboxes due to stance animations... this has been in MK since mk1 though ;_;