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Question Ask Smoke Thread - Have Any Question? Post It Here!

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
D4, and B2 are his best tools. F4~SB can be useful if they're showing you way too much respect.

D4 is great because if you see they switch to low block too early you can do D4~Teleport. Since they cr. blocked the D4 the linked teleport whiffs and provides a cross-up scenario. Think of it is as a safe alternative to guessing whether or not you B2 or D4. (You don't choose, you do one command and hit-confirm depending on what you see)

F4 and B14 also have the same properties as listed above FYI.

Honestly i prefer to not get too offensive with him in footsies because he's easy to blow up. A good jump and your screwed, he has no amazing normals like Kung Lao's F3 or Liu Kang's F121 or Kitana F21. Idk i just find it really risky to go on the offensive if the other player knows your coming. (yet i rush like a madman when we aren't in heavy footsies lol!!!)
 
RM_xSMoKEx

Before I start, let me just say I'm not trying to blow you up for anything. But rather I'm going to play devil's advocate and poke holes in your argument to see how well they really stand. Smoke is really fucked up at point blank imo, way more so than people give him credit for.

How is F4~sb useful if they're showing a lot of respect? If anything, I'd f4~smoke towards or f4~shake cancel since they are being respectful of my options and not taking a risk to blow me up. I'd only throw that bomb the moment I expected them to be disrespectful of it.

d4~teleport could be interesting, albeit risky. You're chancing a crossup for full combo if you're wrong on guessing when that low block is coming out. Not sure I want to rely on so tight of a hitconfirm, think you could convince me otherwise?

Why should I ever care about b14? I've tried using that string in so many situations and there is not a single one where that move is useful outside of doing gimmicky-ass shake cancels. If you're going that route just use b2...

Why wouldn't you want to get offensive with him? You have to switch your play up eventually, you can't rely on running away and whiff punishing all the time. Smoke has both the best overhead and some of the best low pokes in the game, all of which can be cancelled into a smoke bomb at any point to check your opponent with a full combo punish. He has a 1 frame parry, and a teleport invincibile after 6 frames to everything but throws? The fuck outta here! How do you even pressure smoke safely without getting escaped for free at best and reset to death at worst? There must be ways to make this character have some of the most ridiculous pressure in the game. Let's develop him in that direction.

All you need to get these shenanigans started is a simple d4. Which Smoke is very happy to oblige, especially with a random dash forward~d4. Ain't nobody blocking low vs. Smoke at neutral, no sir.
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
No problem explaining man, i enjoy this strategy talk.

F4~SB is useful if they're respecting you heavily because it provides a safe way to build meter, and it is very deceiving. F4 on block with a Smoke Ball has enough pushback for you to jump away / smoke away without punish from the majority of the cast. (With the exception of a few FAS's) Smoke Towards and Shake cancel are both risky. Smoke towards can be poked and the pressure will be reversed; there's nothing wrong with it, i just like to play a safer footsie game. Shake cancel is alright but imo the string has too much pushback so your pressuring options off of it are limited. B2 and D4 is your only real bet and a jump in screws you over. If they jump away / towards your attack will whiff. (and if it was the latter of the two you'll be eating a full combo)

All of the options you listed are viable it's really just preference. Personally, i just prefer to play safer footsies (especially when i have low meter) So doing the F4~SB lets me accomplish both being safe and building meter. Not only that but there is the chance that your opponent will unblock and you will get a full combo.

D4~Teleport is risky i admit, but if you are really on top of your game and your reactions are point you can do it. Let me try to explain...

When dashing in to pressure you will throw out a D4, if they switch their block while your dashing in (which is when it will most often occur) you get more frames to hit-confirm it. It's an "escape" if you will of if you input a D4 and you see your opponent is low blocked. When dashing in you must theoretically guess (yes reading and whatnot comes into play but let's cut that out here) as to whether you should D4 or B2. Now your opponent switched to crouch block while you were dashing in and you inputting D4 realizing you made a mistake, you now have a few frames to correct that and input the teleport.

It's just a way to cover your ass if you make the wrong read. It's by no means a full proof tool that will work 100% of the time, but it should always be in the back of your mind. I asked Somberness for the frame calculations and it may be more beneficial than i had originally thought, but we have to wait and see.

As for replacing B14 with B2 they're not comparable. B14 should only really be done off a jip or after a D4. The benefits are here on my MKU Smoke Guide:

"B14~Shake Cancel: This cancels into a shake also much faster than the recovery time. It does not whiff neutral crouch unlike 21, and it does more chip damage. This string can be cancelled in either direction. On a forward dash it’s quick enough to keep up the pressure. The real glory of this cancel comes out of the spacing. You see, if you back dash cancel this string your opponents poke may whiff. There is only a few frames where he/she can poke before you are out of range. This creates a mix-up situation. If they sit there blocking they’ll eat more chip from your rush down, or if they try to poke you can blow it up with a Smoke Ball or B2. If they jump you can stand there and anti-air with a standing 2. "

B2 doesn't provide that spacing advantage where a poke whiffs. Your at neutral on B2 yes but if they poke or use a fast normal you're screwed. On top of that the B14 and shake cancel builds more meter and does more chip. You can hit-confirm it into a Ex SB if need be for a 42% combo. Think of this as Kit's 21~Cutter. After that cutter (which in this case is a shake) you have that poke mix-up. If it hit's you use the Ex Fan (Ex SB) to get a full combo. It's not quite as good but the benefits are still there.

And as stated, i do rush like a madman. Ask anyone who plays me. Detroit, Dirtyballs313, Curbo and Khaotik. I hardly runaway unless it's against Sonya or Cage lmfao. His footsies are good but he's geared towards whiff punishing not being the aggressor. You have all the tools needed to bait whiffs (Smoke Away, SB, B2, etc.) He has none of those super safe normals like Kit, Lao, or Kang have so being the aggressor isn't always worth it. I mix things up and switch between being aggressive and patient.

Not the clearest post D: if you need me to expand upon something or just talk strats in general hit me up. Some of this stuff is very debatable and i do see where you are coming from.
 
I dunno, I just don't much see the point of b14. Sure it hits on crouch block but if you do that and you see it hit a crouchblocking opponent, I feel that you've made a mistake in that scenario becuase you could have done b23 for a full combo. Sure you're using a different one of Smoke's tools but that's a missed punish. I would much rather just do a 214 off a jip; same chip, builds about the same meter as b14, and leaves you at neutral to play a frame war/mindgame war. I prefer to play as safely as possible too, but sometimes you've just gotta throw something risky out to make sure your opponent will continue to respect you... Maybe that only applies to longer sets and not so much in tournament though. I dunno. I still think shake cancels are cool and want them to work very badly -_-
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
If you are getting caught in with jump ins you can d3 to avoid combo blowups most of the time.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
How much unbreakable damage does Smokes b2 to smoke bomb to air grab do?
I actually am not sure of the hard numbers for that.

I think b2 is 5%, SB is 6%, and airthrow is 6% so I'd guess 17-19%

You can also throw and EX Smoke Bomb after which if you catch the just frame gets you and additional 10% or at the very least 2% in chip damage
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
KT Smith is there a figure for how much damage an EX smokebomb will do to someone when it doesnt launch, like in the corner if you do like a 2~EX smokebomb in a juggle it will juggle them high enough off the EX smokebomb to carry the combo with a d1, not really tht usefull but in a life/death breaker situation with meter free, being able to squeeze a couple extra % of unbreakable damage onto your opponent could be useful i guess.
 

Durango

Enhancer
When's the best time to use a Smoke Bomb? I'm used to dropping it randomly or during the B2 / 3 D1 2 combo. I see good players using it after a 1 or a 2 or something and going from there. What are the most common methods?
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
I'm used to dropping it randomly or during the B2 / 3 D1 2 combo. I see good players using it after a 1 or a 2 or something and going from there. What are the most common methods?
uhhh I don't think I understand the question
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
Edited the post. It was originally a topic that got moved here without the initial tag.
yea, I moved it here. I still don't really understand what you mean. When is the best time to use a smoke bomb? like, in a combo?
 

Faded Dreams V

Retired June 2012. Unretired June 2013.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you stance change after doing a shake cancel, you can block a lot faster, right?
 
Wow, it really works. Maybe i'm crazy, but it seems like huge difference off b14 on block, and barely noticable on 214.... but ive only been doing this for like 3 minutes so i could be entirely wrong. This is really neat though for sure!
 
xSMoKEx

Do you still use the smoke screen tech in the corner? If so, are you willing to share your setups you use from that position? I have nobody to practice with at the moment and trying to figure out what's good and what's not is useless vs the AI
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
In all honesty i haven't, i really don't use it that much. Mainly because the guy i play with is one of the ones who i tested it with so he knows 100% how to react to each situation. (rm big kaballs)

I generally just do the 21~Smoke Towards, NJP doubleteleport ender, or 214~Teleport enders depending on the situation and my opponent.
 
Anyone know who A_Sects_Defender is? xSMoKEx he said he trained with you. Says he's a hot-off-the-street godlike new smoke player that makes all of us look like stale cookies, or something like that. Just curious if anyone knows of him, maybe an alternate gamertag, and if anyone will vouch for his being a high-level smoke. subzerosmokerai and I have never heard of him and are curious is all.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Anyone know who A_Sects_Defender is? xSMoKEx he said he trained with you. Says he's a hot-off-the-street godlike new smoke player that makes all of us look like stale cookies, or something like that. Just curious if anyone knows of him, maybe an alternate gamertag, and if anyone will vouch for his being a high-level smoke. subzerosmokerai and I have never heard of him and are curious is all.

Omfg..please tell me you're lying...
 
Omfg..please tell me you're lying...
Obviously not if I made a post asking about it. I'm not even being hostile, I just want to know who the guy is. I can't remember anyone by the name of A_Sects_Defender entering any tournaments, so I have no idea if he's any good or not.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Obviously not if I made a post asking about it. I'm not even being hostile, I just want to know who the guy is. I can't remember anyone by the name of A_Sects_Defender entering any tournaments, so I have no idea if he's any good or not.

Yes. I know him. Smh..when and where did this happen?
And no comment about his smoke...