Question Ask Smoke Thread - Have Any Question? Post It Here!

[Enenra]

If you're ballsy and expect it, back away and throw a blank Smoke Bomb. You can also cross her over and jump kick + aerial grab, but you can be punished for this (she may reverse the input of her spin dash bs). Finally, you can counterpoke with D3 and D1, but be careful of the roll.

Honestly, the only way her D4 can be stopping everything you have is if you're trying to do everything after jumping in. =P

It's this dude on the KoTH lag kicking my ass. He sucks in all honesty, but he abuses the D4 hitbox and my nooby Smoke has no answer.

EDIT: Busted out Noob and destroyed him. I hate these stupid hit box issues, my biggest frustration with this game.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

It's this dude on the KoTH lag kicking my ass. He sucks in all honesty, but he abuses the D4 hitbox and my nooby Smoke has no answer.

EDIT: Busted out Noob and destroyed him. I hate these stupid hit box issues, my biggest frustration with this game.

Smoke sucks in KOTH lag. I never use him in those.

That said, I picked up Mileena and <3 her.

 

[Enenra]

Smoke sucks in KOTH lag. I never use him in those.

That said, I picked up Mileena and <3 her.

I hate Mileena.

 

[smokey]

How do you counter Mileena's dumb D4? It really stops everything I have.

Walk backwards, if she comes into your d4 range to try again, d4~smoke bomb.

If shes d4'ing under your jump ins, go for a jump in kick, and dash d1 d1 smokebomb. Its not too much of a threat to smoke seeing as his pokes canceled into smoke bombs will be a good trade for a d4.

 

[G4S KT]

I think the mileena match is 6-4 in Smoke's favor simply because she HAS to approach you and HAS to take risks doing it.

 

[Enenra]

I think the mileena match is 6-4 in Smoke's favor simply because she HAS to approach you and HAS to take risks doing it.

I believe it, I just struggle against online Mileenas for the sheer fact her low hitbox stops a lot of my cross up JIP pressure, but that's my problem as a day 3 Smoke. I'm a still a scrub , learning my kombos, resets, punishment and all of that.

 

[G4S KT]

I believe it, I just struggle against online Mileenas for the sheer fact her low hitbox stops a lot of my cross up JIP pressure, but that's my problem as a day 3 Smoke. I'm a still a scrub , learning my kombos, resets, punishment and all of that.

don't be afraid to SB her d4 on anticipation. Even if it hits you, it'll trade and you get a combo. Then, when she's scared to use d4, all she can do is telekick/EX telekick, random roll, or jump at you all of which can be easily scouted and blown up.

And if she's using d4 as avoidance, keep jump kicking her until she learns to block

 

[Enenra]

don't be afraid to SB her d4 on anticipation. Even if it hits you, it'll trade and you get a combo. Then, when she's scared to use d4, all she can do is telekick/EX telekick, random roll, or jump at you all of which can be easily scouted and blown up.

And if she's using d4 as avoidance, keep jump kicking her until she learns to block

Thank you. What do you punish her tele with? D1 dash D1 smokebomb or...?

 

[FrothyOmen]

regular tele use d1 d1 bomb.

EX tele you have to crouch block the second hit, then d1 d1 punish. You can't punish if you don't crouch block.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

You can also punish a regular tele with [3 2], [3 D1 2], [2 1 Smoke Bomb], [Ender of choice].

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Fun fact: 17 Shakes = 1 bar of meter. Much, much faster than Smoke Bombs, Smoke Away, or invisibility.

Why aren't people mastering Shake cancels, and doing this at full screen to build meter?!

 

[smokey]

Fun fact: 17 Shakes = 1 bar of meter. Much, much faster than Smoke Bombs, Smoke Away, or invisibility.

Why aren't people mastering Shake cancels, and doing this at full screen to build meter?!

The cancels are slow and you cant block straight away after cancelling, so its fairly unsafe to try.

 

[HD Smoke]

at fr @DetroitBalln313 used Smoke against CDjr's Smoke and i was extremely impressed with how good Detroits Smoke was. Took Cdjr into the last round were it could of went either way. Amazing match i didnt know that he used Smoke. Detroit used something i have never thought to use. He would do standing 1 immediately into d1 Smokebomb and it worked on cdjr. Seems like a great set up but what would you Smoke players think of 1,1, into d1 SB. 1,1 i heard has random frame advantage so could this work? Has anyone tried it? I know 1,1 whiffs but people are always scared to duck on Smoke. lol at detroit showing me things with a character he doesnt main and ive mained smoke since lauch, what a beast. good shit detroit with your Smoke hope to see you use him at more tournys.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

at fr DetroitBalln313 used Smoke against CDjr's Smoke and i was extremely impressed with how good Detroits Smoke was. Took Cdjr into the last round were it could of went either way. Amazing match i didnt know that he used Smoke. Detroit used something i have never thought to use. He would do standing 1 immediately into d1 Smokebomb and it worked on cdjr. Seems like a great set up but what would you Smoke players think of 1,1, into d1 SB. 1,1 i heard has random frame advantage so could this work? Has anyone tried it? I know 1,1 whiffs but people are always scared to duck on Smoke. lol at detroit showing me things with a character he doesnt main and ive mained smoke since lauch, what a beast. good shit detroit with your Smoke hope to see you use him at more tournys.

Detroit has been using Smoke for a while. He plays with RM_GAMER and RM_Smoke on PSN, who are among the best unknown Smoke players, to my knowledge. Detroit used Smoke to win that online FR trip tournament too.

The cancels are slow and you cant block straight away after cancelling, so its fairly unsafe to try.

True, but it's a great meter-building tool, regardless. I think it should be used sparingly when opponents don't expect it. I never see anyone do it. =(

 

[FrothyOmen]

True, but it's a great meter-building tool, regardless. I think it should be used sparingly when opponents don't expect it. I never see anyone do it. =(

I don't mean to be a dick, but you don't see people do it because it's awful.

People need to do more 11 pressure, the recovery is so fast that you can mix people up awesomely off of it. I'm in the process of building and trying out a once-per-match, Johnny Cage-like pressure game with smoke that all revolves around 11 and its mixups. It's promising on paper, anyways.

 

[FrothyOmen]

It's extremely punishable on reaction? It creates a guessing game, yes but it's a guessing game for BOTH players instead of the person trying to hit smoke. It's not like you're Johnny Cage, for example, and you're doing f3/f33/f33b3 pressure, where it's a guessing game for the defender when he needs to poke out (if at all). Cage is only risking a poke. Smoke, in "whiffing" shakes, is not safe like this. He has quite a few recovery frames after backdashing out of shake, and can be hit with well-timed projectiles, fast advancing specials, teleports, and worse. Maybe I'm just being a negative nancy, but whiffing more than 2 shakes at fullscreen has never ended well for me.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

It's extremely punishable on reaction? It creates a guessing game, yes but it's a guessing game for BOTH players instead of the person trying to hit smoke. It's not like you're Johnny Cage, for example, and you're doing f3/f33/f33b3 pressure, where it's a guessing game for the defender when he needs to poke out (if at all). Cage is only risking a poke. Smoke, in "whiffing" shakes, is not safe like this. He has quite a few recovery frames after backdashing out of shake, and can be hit with well-timed projectiles, fast advancing specials, teleports, and worse. Maybe I'm just being a negative nancy, but whiffing more than 2 shakes at fullscreen has never ended well for me.

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying to use Shake cancels as a guessing game. If you use it very sparingly full screen, your opponent is not going to punish the crap outta you on reaction unless they're gdlk. You don't want to abuse this because, yeah, it is punishable, especially against characters with teleports. 1-2 Shakes would suffice.

 

[G4S KT]

The best way to build meter full screen is to pull it out of the air. whiffed air grab also takes 17 for one bar and can be done much faster.

I think there's potential with 11 mix ups, but the thing holding it back is the start up. It's so slow it's almost impossible to get it off out of anything other than a blocked JIP

15 frames? get the fuck outta here. I DEMAND that Smoke's standing one be sped up to 10 frames

 

[FrothyOmen]

I don't like whiffed air grabs because of their recovery and lack of potential reward. I strongly believe that smoke bombs fullscreen are the best, especially when stuttered, just because it's similarly punishable to all of smoke's other options but it grants the potential for full combo if you get lucky where all the other moves are at best going to leave you at neutral. There's more reward for bombs with equal risk...

 

[HD Smoke]

The best way to build meter full screen is to pull it out of the air. whiffed air grab also takes 17 for one bar and can be done much faster.

I think there's potential with 11 mix ups, but the thing holding it back is the start up. It's so slow it's almost impossible to get it off out of anything other than a blocked JIP

15 frames? get the fuck outta here. I DEMAND that Smoke's standing one be sped up to 10 frames

Yeah outside of having a fast overhead and fast pokes, smoke is slow as fuck lol. Kinda why he shouldnt get nerfed, besides the reset. Smokes standing 1 at 10 frames would be awesome and would make sense because it cant combo into smoke bomb.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Anyone know what b3 is on block?

Also I just learned that if you whiff airgrabs right before you land there is no recovery whatsoever and you gain the same amount of meter as a whiffed airgrab higher up that would leave you in recovery. Maybe you all know this, idk, new to me.

 

[G4S KT]

Anyone know what b3 is on block?

Also I just learned that if you whiff airgrabs right before you land there is no recovery whatsoever and you gain the same amount of meter as a whiffed airgrab higher up that would leave you in recovery. Maybe you all know this, idk, new to me.

also, what happens is that the recovery of a late whiffed air grab can be cancelled into another jump, so you can do several in a row quickly. BUT, the jump you cancel into WILL have recovery even if you don't air grab. So basically, the last jump you do of a series of whiffed air grabs will have recovery if you don't whiff one.

 

[bettyswallaux]

Can any one write a combo list of working combos after patch with button guides, thx!

 

[G4S KT]

Can any one write a combo list of working combos after patch with button guides, thx!

hey there, bettyswallaux. This is a question for the "ask smoke thread" so I'm gonna move it there.

in any case, FrothyOmen has a list of Smoke's bnb's in his sig, and another user, Swifteh94, recently posted a larger list of different bnb variations and where they leave you in relation to your opponent.

remember the notation is:

1= square or X
2= triangle or Y
3= x or A
4= circle or B

Hope this helps.

I know alot of you will know this, but I'm making this thread for players just getting started with smoke. I see alot of smoke players always ending there combos with the air grab and teleporting behind. Although this is good, it can get predictable.

As alot of you know, the best thing about smokes offensive game is his ability to get up close once the combo is over, therefore keeping the momentum with you.

The thing some smokes do wrong is they always teleport behind a fallen enemy, therefore the enemy knows which direction to do a wakeup attack.

Ending your combos with:
21 smoke towards: you will appear behind your enemy
21 teleport: infront
214 smoke towards: infront (in corner sometimes behind)
214 teleport: behind
f4 teleport: infront/ behind according to how long you wait to teleport. (in corner first telekick will hit, leaving you infront)
air grab teleport: behind.

As you can see, mixing up the end of you combos will make the enemy unable to predict which direction your going to appear. In the corner it becomes especially confusing as the 214 smoke towards will sometime put you behind the opponent but other times it'll put you infront of the opponent. It's also similar with the f4, if the first telekick whiffs then you will be behind them, if it hits, you will be infront of them.

Here are some examples of his bnb combos and how you can end them to ensure momentum:

Midscreen:
3d12 starter:

jip ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 21 smoke towards ... (37%) behind
jip ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 21 teleport ... (38%) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 214 teleport ... (39%) behind
jip ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 214 smoke towards ... (39%) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... f4 teleport ... (39% midscreen) infront/behind depends on timing of teleport
jip ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... f4 teleport ... (40% approaching corner) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ...jk grab teleport ... (39%) behind

jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... b23 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke towards ... (39%) behind
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... b23 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 21 teleport ... (40%) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... b23 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 214 teleport ... (41%) behind
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... b23 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 214 smoke towards ... (40%) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... b23 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... f4 teleport ... (41%) infront/ behind depending on timing of teleport
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... b23 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... jk grap teleport ... (42%) behind

jip ... 3d12 ... njp teleport ... 32 ... smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke towards ... (40%) behind
jip ... 3d12 ... njp teleport ... 32 ... smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 21 teleport ... (41%) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... njp teleport ... 32 ... smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... f4 teleport ... (42%) infront/ behind depending on timing of teleport
jip ... 3d12 ... njp teleport ... 32 ... smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... jk grab teleport ... (42%) behind

b23 starter:
jip ... b23 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke towards ... (36%) behind
jip ... b23 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 teleport ... (37%) infront
jip ... b23 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... 214 teleport ... (38%) behind
jip ... b23 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... 214 smoke towards ... (38%) infront
jip ... b23 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... f4 teleport ... (38%) infront/ behind depending on timing of teleport
jip ... b23 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... jk grap teleport ...(39%) behind

21 starter:
jip ... 214 smoke towards ... (15%) infront
jip ... 214 teleport ... (19%) infront
jip ... 21 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke towards ... (33%) behind
jip ... 21 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 teleport ...(34%) infront
jip ... 21 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 214 smoke towards ... (35%) infront
jip ... 21 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 214 teleport ... (35%) behind
jip ... 21 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... f4 teleport ... (35%) infront/ behind depending on timing of teleport
jip ... 21 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... jk grap teleport ...(36%) behind

Njp starter:
njp ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 21 smoke towards (29%) behind
njp ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 21 teleport (30%) infront
njp ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 214 smoke towards (30%) infront
njp ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 214 teleport (30%) behind
njp ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... f4 teleport (31%) infront/ behind depending on timing of teleport
njp ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke bomb ... jk grab teleport (31%) behind

Jik starter:
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... 21 teleport ... (34%) infront
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke towards (32%) behind
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... f4 teleport (31%) infront/ behind depending on timing of teleport
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 214 teleport (30%) behind
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 214 smoke towards (30%) infront
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... jk grab teleport (31%) behind

Anti-air:
2 ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... 21 teleport (28%) infront
2 ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke towards (27%) behind
2 ... d1 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 214 teleport ... (25%) behind
2 ... d1 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 214 smoke towards ... (25%) infront
2 ... d1 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... f4 teleport ... (25%) infront/ behind depending on timing of teleport
2 ... d1 smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... jk grab teleport ... (26%) behind

Air-to-air:
jp ... smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 smoke towards (22%) behind
jp ... smoke bomb ... 3d12 ... 3d12 ... 21 teleport (23%) infront
jp ... smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... 214 teleport (24%) behind
jp ... smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... 214 smoke towards (24%) infront
jp ... smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... f4 teleport (24%) infront/ behind depending on timing of teleport
jp ... smoke bomb ... 32 ... 3d12 ... jk grab teleport (25%) behind

Corner:
3d12 starter:
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... 32 ... 32 ... 32 ... 21 smoke bomb ... f4 teleport ... (46%) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... 32 ... 32 ... 32 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 214 smoke towards (45%) infront/behind
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... 32 ... 32 ... 32 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 214 teleport (45%) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... 32 ... 32 ... 32 ... 21 smoke bomb ... 214 invisible (45%) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... 32 ... 32 ... 32 ... 21 smoke bomb ... jk teleport (45%) infront
jip ... 3d12 ... njp ... 32 ... 32 ... 32 ... 21 smoke bomb ... jk grab (45%) behind

214 starter:
jip ... 214 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 32 ... 32 ... 214 smoke towards (44%) infront/ behind
jip ... 214 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 32 ... 32 ... 214 teleport (44%) infront
jip ... 214 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 32 ... 32 ... 214 invisible (44%) infront
jip ... 214 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 32 ... jk grab teleport (42%) behind

b23 starter:
jip ... b23 teleport ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 214 smoke towards (34%) infront/ behind
jip ... b23 teleport ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 214 teleport (34%) infront
jip ... b23 teleport ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 214 invisible (34%) infront
jip ... b23 teleport ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... jk grab teleport ... (35%) behind

Jik Starter:
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 32 ... 214 smoke towards (34%) ... infront/ behind
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 32 ... 214 teleport (34%) ... infront
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 32 ... 214 invisible (34%) ... infront
jik ... d1 smoke bomb ... 32 ... 32 ... jk grap teleport (35%) ... behind

Also, all of these moves will allow you to teleport behind your enemy:
air grap,
forward throw,
uppercut,
sweep,
214,
breaker,
x ray,
f4,
b3.

I may make some videos in the future but I have no way to record at the moment

 

[FrothyOmen]

I don't have it in my sig anymore because nobody asks for it and i'm too lazy to keep it updated.

it's not like smoke's BnBs have changed at all between November and now, but there are plenty of obscure situational combos that aren't in that thread. Regardless it's an excellent start.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/smoke-combos.2777/page-13#post-56783

Spoiler

Since the OP is not updating his first post with combos, I'm gonna go ahead and list all of Smoke's current, most damaging BnBs. That way so many people don't make posts like "I don't know if anyone's said this one yet but I have this COMBO A that does LESS THAN IDEAL %."

Text in white is a standard combo. Red combos indicate one that can have an EX Smoke bomb tacked on at the end to add 10% unscaled damage to the combo, or can have a telepunch whiffed in order to have easy oki pressure.

All listed combos are meterless, there's no point in Smoke spending meter mid-combo 99% of the time. Any combos PM'd to me that beat these in terms of damage per situation will be added here.

Midscreen BnBs:

Spoiler

DMGjip > 3d12 > 32 > 4 xx smoke bomb > 3d12 > jk xx air throw. 42%
DMGjip > 3d12 > njp > b23 xx bomb > 3d12 > jk xx air throw. 42%
OVERHEAD UTILITY:b23 xx bomb > 32 > 3d12 > f4. 35% and sets you up for F4 lottery.
MIXUP: End combos with 214xxsmoke towards to throw different oki scenarios at your opponents in exchange for some damage.

Corner BnBs:

Spoiler

DMG jip > 214 xx bomb > 32 > 32 > 32 > 214. 44%
DMG jip > 3d12 > njp > 32 > 32 > 32 > d1 xx bomb > 214. 44%
MIXUP: End with f4 xx EX Bomb for one of the following: 2% scaled damage, 10% unscaled, or reset. The timings for each are extremely close together and strict, so attempt at your own risk!! AKA The f4 Lottery

Once you can do these consistently, you should understand how Smoke's main strings work, how high/far they launch, etc. Once you get this, you can mixup your strings mid-combo dependent upon where you are on the screen/where you're carrying your enemy to. For example, if you are carrying an enemy to the point they hit the corner mid-combo, you can stop your midscreen halfway through and go into whatever part of the corner combo is appropriate. This is an intermediate talent you'll learn as a Smoke player, which will help you maximize your damage, consistency, and ability to keep your opponent in the corner.

Other ideal combos at this point in time:

Spoiler

NJP starter (useful at beginning of round 1, for example):
njp > 3d12 > 3d12 > jk xx air throw. 32%(?? Don't remember off top of my head)

Antiairs
Air-to-Air JPfjp > smoke bomb > 3d12 > 32 > f4(no dash into f4). 24%
anti-JIP/Crossup2 > 2 > d3 xx bomb > 3d12 > jk xx air throw.
anti-JIP/Crossupd1 > d1 xx bomb > 3d12 > jk xx air throw.

Naked/Random Smoke Bomb
3d12 > 3d12 > jk xx air throw This is a pretty foolproof combo to use here. A lot of the time when you get a random smoke bomb, you won't be expecting it and you won't hit that first 3d12 at the ideal height to continue a juggle, so off of this just link as much stuff as you can to be blunt. You'll figure this one out as you play

Advanced Antiair Combos NEW! 11/12/11

I'm not going to list X-Ray combos because they don't matter for Smoke. 3 meters for an extra 8% of damage is of course not worth it. Save it for breakers and EX shake, maybe an EX bomb if you need the damage/are feeling frisky.

If I've missed anything glaring please let me know and I'll update this post. Hopefully a budding Smoke player can benefit from this thread and learn his proper BnBs