Doombawkz
Trust me, I'm a doctor
Q: "Why do you fight, creature?"
Ferra: "To hear bones go crunch-crunch!"
Torr: "BRWAHGSALNDLKDLKNLASND"
Ferra: "To hear bones go crunch-crunch!"
Torr: "BRWAHGSALNDLKDLKNLASND"
To help with synthesizing (or consolidating) the sub-forum, this thread has been created for you forum-goers to ask questions about Ferra/Torr and recieve an answer. In addition, there are links to good threads and stuff. This post will be updated over time so all you fellows don't have to sift through pages of stuff to find the answer you may be looking for. Ask anything you'd like!
Here are linkies to good threads before the Q/A section:
----[ General ]----
→ Combo Lab: The FerraTory
→ Ferra/Torr General Discussion
→ Tactics & Tech Discussion Thread
→ The Video Thread
→ Report Patch & Hotfix Changes Here
→ F/T Council Formation
→ B1,2,1 Wakeup Tech
----[ Vicious & Ruthless ]----
→ Beginner's Guide to the Vicious Variation
→ Vicious: Little Kutter and You + Apply 1xxLittle Kutter to mix-ups
→ Vicious: Corner Setup Kombo Kompilation
→ Ruthless: No Pain, No Gain
→ Ruthless Guide
→ V&R: Ferra Toss Pressure Inconsistencies and Strategy
→ V&R: Ferra Jab 50/50 mix-ups
→ V&R: Unique Wakeup System
----[ Lackey ]----
→ In-Depth Video Guide to Lackey
→ The Torrvex: BF3 Charge Okizeme + Overrun Tech Against Wakeup Attacks
→ B3,2+4 Oki
----[ Move Properties]----
Hello all. Especially you, my fellow Lackeys. Today I want to explore a particular move with you all, Torr's boulder roll (b.f.2). Before we begin, allow me to break down the move so we can get a better understanding of it.
Boulder Roll - back-forward 2 /// 9.00% damage (2.13% on block)
Start up - 9 frames
Active - 12 frames
Recover - 28 frames
Block advantage - -12 frames
Hit advantage - 12 frames
Cancel - cannot be cancelled.
Right off the bat, the move has a nice fast start-up, does decent enough damage, but has some trade-offs in the matter of block advantage and recovery. It also covers a bit of distance, roughly 1/3 of the screen, with the meterburned version covering the whole screen. As far as combo enders go, we have better ones we can use for damage (command grab) or advantage (Torryuken), however the roll possesses some qualities I would like to present to you.
To begin, lets tackle the block disadvantage. At -12, its an easy full-combo punish for even the slowest hitting characters. This is only if Torr hits the opponent point blank, however much like Bane's f.2.d the move gets more advantage the later into its animation you hit with it.
This one shows the moves basic stats, and compares it to Sub Zero's slide attack (a 9-frame start-up). As you can see, when Torr is close, the slide hits on reversal easily. However, adding a small bit of spacing allows Torr to be safe. All the same, him being possibly -8 isn't quite enough to justify the move.
This video compares it to Shinnok's MB Hell Blast (7 frames of start-up). This example shows the peak roll distance, which is roughly 1 back-jump away from point blank. As you can see, from this distance Torr is able to block with no problem.
This final video shows Torr facing the fastest reversal in the game, Tempest Kung Lao's MB spin. As an example, it has no trouble punishing Torr's Stand Aside string which is shown to be -5. However, as you can see later in the video, a properly spaced roll isn't punishable by any move in the game. This spacing is hard to achieve, but its something to keep in mind that against some characters with slower reversal options, a mid-range roll might be a good way in.
Now then, since we've tackled the block situation, next comes recovery. As you could see above, later on in the move you have more freedom to follow-up so long as your roll hits delayed. Here are some fun combos showcasing that.
In the corner, you can roll under and shove them back into it using a MB grab or another roll.
Off of a low starter mid-screen you can do this nifty little set-up to achieve similar results.
This one does it off of a n.j.p, showing you have options out of most things to get the roll combos going.
From here, one can assume that the roll provides at least some marginal benefit on hit in spite of the recovery, roughly +6 from a high late hit, and about +5 from a low late hit. Now one would ask themselves why they would bother with this when there are those other options in tow. The answer is that Torr seems to have some minor vortex potential off of the roll as an ender.
This first video shows the gist of the set-up. After a d.2, you can actually connect your roll through and it'll give you that +5 advantage and leave the opponent close. After that do a short run cancelled into either your low or overhead. This is an option against people who tend to tech roll after being hit by the boulder roll, and the run distance is incredibly short so its not as obvious as one might think.
This video shows that Torr can go OH/Low, Low/OH, Low/Low, and OH/OH (though its not shown) out of this set-up. The Caber Toss (14 Frame start-up) actually will beat out a tech roll wake-up clean so long as its about 8 frames or slower, or unarmored. The overhead (I believe 19 or 20 frames?) Will beat out 15 or slower wake-ups.
Delayed Wake-up is an option, however it doesn't really stop the vortex that much. If someone lays there and the f.2 whiffs, you have enough remaining advantage to do another f.2, a b.2, a command grab, a regular grab, basically the opponent still has to fight the 50/50 option. If the b.2 whiffs, you can keep it going and the opponent will stand up and have to block it. b.23 is only -2, and if you find the first hit doesn't connect you should have time to end it off on the second hit. If the opponent blocks the second hit, you can have an almost perfect set-up for either a command grab, a normal grab, or a d.3 hit confirm.
People can also tech roll back-dash to get out of the situation at the cost of some stamina, however this merely resets the neutral game for the most part, and keeps Torr close enough to still be a threat. If you manage to secure this vortex in the corner, then this option doesn't really play into too much.
Its not full-proof, but its a solid start.
This move has more to be explored, but these are just a few things I found and wanted to share with the community. Hopefully this gives some people ideas to implement into their own game plans, or inspires them to further explore their other tools. Sometimes, moves that look simple on the surface can have many layers of depth beneath them.
Boulder Roll - back-forward 2 /// 9.00% damage (2.13% on block)
Start up - 9 frames
Active - 12 frames
Recover - 28 frames
Block advantage - -12 frames
Hit advantage - 12 frames
Cancel - cannot be cancelled.
Right off the bat, the move has a nice fast start-up, does decent enough damage, but has some trade-offs in the matter of block advantage and recovery. It also covers a bit of distance, roughly 1/3 of the screen, with the meterburned version covering the whole screen. As far as combo enders go, we have better ones we can use for damage (command grab) or advantage (Torryuken), however the roll possesses some qualities I would like to present to you.
To begin, lets tackle the block disadvantage. At -12, its an easy full-combo punish for even the slowest hitting characters. This is only if Torr hits the opponent point blank, however much like Bane's f.2.d the move gets more advantage the later into its animation you hit with it.
This one shows the moves basic stats, and compares it to Sub Zero's slide attack (a 9-frame start-up). As you can see, when Torr is close, the slide hits on reversal easily. However, adding a small bit of spacing allows Torr to be safe. All the same, him being possibly -8 isn't quite enough to justify the move.
This video compares it to Shinnok's MB Hell Blast (7 frames of start-up). This example shows the peak roll distance, which is roughly 1 back-jump away from point blank. As you can see, from this distance Torr is able to block with no problem.
This final video shows Torr facing the fastest reversal in the game, Tempest Kung Lao's MB spin. As an example, it has no trouble punishing Torr's Stand Aside string which is shown to be -5. However, as you can see later in the video, a properly spaced roll isn't punishable by any move in the game. This spacing is hard to achieve, but its something to keep in mind that against some characters with slower reversal options, a mid-range roll might be a good way in.
Now then, since we've tackled the block situation, next comes recovery. As you could see above, later on in the move you have more freedom to follow-up so long as your roll hits delayed. Here are some fun combos showcasing that.
From here, one can assume that the roll provides at least some marginal benefit on hit in spite of the recovery, roughly +6 from a high late hit, and about +5 from a low late hit. Now one would ask themselves why they would bother with this when there are those other options in tow. The answer is that Torr seems to have some minor vortex potential off of the roll as an ender.
Delayed Wake-up is an option, however it doesn't really stop the vortex that much. If someone lays there and the f.2 whiffs, you have enough remaining advantage to do another f.2, a b.2, a command grab, a regular grab, basically the opponent still has to fight the 50/50 option. If the b.2 whiffs, you can keep it going and the opponent will stand up and have to block it. b.23 is only -2, and if you find the first hit doesn't connect you should have time to end it off on the second hit. If the opponent blocks the second hit, you can have an almost perfect set-up for either a command grab, a normal grab, or a d.3 hit confirm.
People can also tech roll back-dash to get out of the situation at the cost of some stamina, however this merely resets the neutral game for the most part, and keeps Torr close enough to still be a threat. If you manage to secure this vortex in the corner, then this option doesn't really play into too much.
Its not full-proof, but its a solid start.
This move has more to be explored, but these are just a few things I found and wanted to share with the community. Hopefully this gives some people ideas to implement into their own game plans, or inspires them to further explore their other tools. Sometimes, moves that look simple on the surface can have many layers of depth beneath them.
----[ Questions & Answers ]---- ___
A work in progress.
Q: Ferra/Torr's best variation?
A: They are all good for different match-ups: Vicious and Lackey cover each other's weaknesses, and as of now, Ruthless is open to player interpretation.
If you see them jumping at you:
– Tuck 'n' Charge. It works surprisingly well because of the way Torr whips Ferra down.
– Ferra-assisted Neutral Jump Punch is a good option since Ferra is not regarded as a part of Torr's hitbox.
– Ferra Toss.
– Standing 4xxFerra/Boss Toss or Torryuken or Pain and Gain.
Lackey options:
– Torryuken. Enhanced is preferable.
– D1 into F2, or BF3 Charge if hit from further away.
Q: What about in an emergency situation, like if I need a quick AA? What about crossups?
Ferra/Torr has a weak anti-air game in that regard.* Block, D1, or D3. Another option for crossups is to dash forward to go out of range from their attack, but ensure that it is a forward dash done before your turn around because Torr's backdash is horrible.
(Lackey gets a good D1 to anti-air with.)
* It's okay for characters to have weaknesses.
Pro-tip: Remember that every character has a different jump arc and range of jump attacks. Experiment to see what options are best-suited for a particular character/variation.
Ferra/Torr swat and crush fly!
– Tuck 'n' Charge. It works surprisingly well because of the way Torr whips Ferra down.
– Ferra-assisted Neutral Jump Punch is a good option since Ferra is not regarded as a part of Torr's hitbox.
– Ferra Toss.
– Standing 4xxFerra/Boss Toss or Torryuken or Pain and Gain.
Lackey options:
– Torryuken. Enhanced is preferable.
– D1 into F2, or BF3 Charge if hit from further away.
Q: What about in an emergency situation, like if I need a quick AA? What about crossups?
Ferra/Torr has a weak anti-air game in that regard.* Block, D1, or D3. Another option for crossups is to dash forward to go out of range from their attack, but ensure that it is a forward dash done before your turn around because Torr's backdash is horrible.
(Lackey gets a good D1 to anti-air with.)
* It's okay for characters to have weaknesses.
Pro-tip: Remember that every character has a different jump arc and range of jump attacks. Experiment to see what options are best-suited for a particular character/variation.
Ferra/Torr swat and crush fly!
>> How long does the armor on Pain 'n Gain last?
Pain and Gain's armor activates when Ferra stabs Torr and lasts through the recovery frames. As soon as you can move the armor is gone. If you dash or run out of PnG, the armor will be lost as well.
>> How many hits can the armor absorb?
One hit for each level of Pain, increasing to 5 at level 3.
PnG level 1 = One hit of armor,
PnG level 2 = Two hits of armor,
PnG level 3 = Five hits of armor.
>> Can you go higher than level 3?
No. Activating PnG at level 3 will just maintain level 3 by resetting the damage buff's timer.
>> What is the ticker time on PnG?
It lasts 10 seconds of real time. The in-game clock is noticeably slower than actual time, it might be ~8 seconds in-game. Activating PnG before the time expires will reset it back to ten seconds.
>> Does anything cancel out the damage buff?
Being hit by the opponent's X-Ray will cancel the PnG damage buff. Hitting an opponent with Torr's X-Ray while the buff is active will also cancel the damage buff, but the increased damage will still be dealt to the opponent through the entirety of the X-Ray.
Torr stomp guts out!
GRAAAAW!!
Pain and Gain's armor activates when Ferra stabs Torr and lasts through the recovery frames. As soon as you can move the armor is gone. If you dash or run out of PnG, the armor will be lost as well.
>> How many hits can the armor absorb?
One hit for each level of Pain, increasing to 5 at level 3.
PnG level 1 = One hit of armor,
PnG level 2 = Two hits of armor,
PnG level 3 = Five hits of armor.
>> Can you go higher than level 3?
No. Activating PnG at level 3 will just maintain level 3 by resetting the damage buff's timer.
>> What is the ticker time on PnG?
It lasts 10 seconds of real time. The in-game clock is noticeably slower than actual time, it might be ~8 seconds in-game. Activating PnG before the time expires will reset it back to ten seconds.
>> Does anything cancel out the damage buff?
Being hit by the opponent's X-Ray will cancel the PnG damage buff. Hitting an opponent with Torr's X-Ray while the buff is active will also cancel the damage buff, but the increased damage will still be dealt to the opponent through the entirety of the X-Ray.
Torr stomp guts out!
GRAAAAW!!
Torr charge has 4 frames of armor as well as projectile invulnerability on startup. It's just the property of the move.
As ferra does not count as a projectile, she will not be stopped by another Ferra's projectile cancelling effects. They pass right through eachother!
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