General/Other Ares Buffs thread - Balanced & Practical Changes

[The Gabriel]

Perhaps my post was a little unclear. Putting Ares in his optimal combat range up close is an advantage that he doesn't have right now. He basically- as of now- comes out of teleport breathing on your opponents neck. By him coming out of teleport a bit further back it gives him a cushion. Yea you wouldn't have a God-like teleport that would guarantee you a combo off a read all the time but you have the option to change the tide of battle and put Ares in his optimal close quarters range. I'm merely suggesting giving Ares more breathing room and giving him the option to change gears from zoning to brawler more fluently.

Why do you think that is his optimal range? In my mind you should either be in d1 range or half screen or further...anything between d1 and half screen means death,

 

[cHAncEman1292]

Why do you think that is his optimal range? In my mind you should either be in d1 range or half screen or further...anything between d1 and half screen means death,

Haha forgive him again. I was refering to his "optimal up close range" - I'm talking strictly his normals and strings. I'm talking about a range where his advancing normals have advantage or where opponents have to dash or jump in to continue the attack. I suggested the Teleport to drop him off just a tad bit out of poking range that way he wouldn't be as vunerable to punish whilst also being in prime distance to surmount some sort of offense.

When it comes to Ares's optimal range, I think thats hard to peg down. Ares can definitely zone but if he relies entirely on his zoning he will get blown up- you have to continuously press the attack and harass your opponent. And fishing in and out of combat is the way Ares does that - hence the zoning emphasis but also hence tools like Godsmack & Tele

 

[Impractical Joker]

Haha forgive him again. I was refering to his "optimal up close range" - I'm talking strictly his normals and strings. I'm talking about a range where his advancing normals have advantage or where opponents have to dash or jump in to continue the attack. I suggested the Teleport to drop him off just a tad bit out of poking range that way he wouldn't be as vunerable to punish whilst also being in prime distance to surmount some sort of offense.

When it comes to Ares's optimal range, I think thats hard to peg down. Ares can definitely zone but if he relies entirely on his zoning he will get blown up- you have to continuously press the attack and harass your opponent. And fishing in and out of combat is the way Ares does that - hence the zoning emphasis but also hence tools like Godsmack & Tele

You don't seem to understand. Moving him would move him out of d1 range so he could no longer get a full combo. If anything the in front of teleport could move you a bit further from the opponent to allow him to use his d1 punished off behind teleport while still granting better positioning in some cases

 

[cHAncEman1292]

You don't seem to understand. Moving him would move him out of d1 range so he could no longer get a full combo. If anything the in front of teleport could move you a bit further from the opponent to allow him to use his d1 punished off behind teleport while still granting better positioning in some cases

I absolutely understand what your getting at - I feel like you don't get what I have been trying to communicate from the last several posts and part of that is on me because of my unclear wording.

I'm merely saying that Ares's main advantage up close is his advancing normals AND yes you can get a full combo off a d1 I know that, I was talking into consideration his other normals in which he can also get combo oppurtunities from. I'm only saying that Ares would benefit greatly by not having to teleport right on the opponent as it would grant him a measure of safety as well as the opportunity to initiate a combo. I feel like your underestimating the reach of Ares's normals as they provide a lot of protection upclose as a well place nj1 or nj2 can keep would be attackers. Ares generates enough meter where he can take the liberty to bait and punish up close attackers.

 

[Impractical Joker]

I absolutely understand what your getting at - I feel like you don't get what I have been trying to communicate from the last several posts and part of that is on me because of my unclear wording.

I'm merely saying that Ares's main advantage up close is his advancing normals AND yes you can get a full combo off a d1 I know that, I was talking into consideration his other normals in which he can also get combo oppurtunities from. I'm only saying that Ares would benefit greatly by not having to teleport right on the opponent as it would grant him a measure of safety as well as the opportunity to initiate a combo. I feel like your underestimating the reach of Ares's normals as they provide a lot of protection upclose as a well place nj1 or nj2 can keep would be attackers. Ares generates enough meter where he can take the liberty to bait and punish up close attackers.

I do understand what you mean but d1 is his quickest punisher. Changing the teleport would make a good read turn into a pressure opportunity instead of a full combo. Now instead of teleporting and doing d1, d4 while they recover you can only pressure which doesn't necessarily mean you will get any damage. That's why I suggest the in front of teleport to into the range you're talking about while leaving the behind teleport as is to allow for quick punishes

 

[cHAncEman1292]

I do understand what you mean but d1 is his quickest punisher. Changing the teleport would make a good read turn into a pressure opportunity instead of a full combo. Now instead of teleporting and doing d1, d4 while they recover you can only pressure which doesn't necessarily mean you will get any damage. That's why I suggest the in front of teleport to into the range you're talking about while leaving the behind teleport as is to allow for quick punishes

Mmm - maybe I didn't have idea what you were talking about haha sorry bud! I do agree with your compromise - because IMO the teleport is there to just get close to circumvent getting in on zoners.

However, a suggestion I do have for Ares is for him 1 of 2 buffs to his trait...

Either...

1) Have an additional sword & up the damage of the axe. This way you have a sword handy for setups more often than not and the damage with the axe will be a bit scarier.

2) "This Conflict Fuels Me" have Ares's trait regenerate quicker while inflicting or receiving damage.

 

[Impractical Joker]

I feel like speeding up his traits recovery or speeding up his overhead starter slightly or making d2 a decent anti air would all be fair buffs that wouldn't break him. Or instead of speeding up his overhead the overhead trait button could launch giving you an awesome decent ranged 50/50 but that would probably break him

 

[The Gabriel]

d2 needs to be buffed...I'm starting to think that is the #1 change he needs.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

This is priority number one. Fixing his trait so something like this doesn't happen again.

 

[WaywardStranger]

xInfra Deadx Use d2~d4 and the sword will hit every time in the corner.

 

[4x4lo8o]

xInfra Deadx Use d2~d4 and the sword will hit every time in the corner.

That's gotta do way less damage.
D2 does less than 112 and scales a ton. It might be better to just end with a fireball and save your sword at that point...

 

[WaywardStranger]

That's gotta do way less damage.
D2 does less than 112 and scales a ton. It might be better to just end with a fireball and save your sword at that point...

The difference isn't that significant if it is late in the combo, for instance after 3d2, f23, f23.

I don't use the sword in my corner combos unless I'm trying to wall-bounce my opponent and get them away from the corner with b13. My bnb corner combo is 3d2, f23, f23, f12.

Point is though, d2~d4 is the only sure way to hit the rising sword on an airborne in the corner.
Launching is another matter.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

xInfra Deadx Use d2~d4 and the sword will hit every time in the corner.

Damage scales horribly on D2's compared to 2,2, B1, or 1,1,2. Another thing I haven't added yet is with 2,2/D4, the sword whiffs. I think this also applies with B1 and maybe 1,1,2 as far as launching the opponent goes.

 

[4x4lo8o]

The difference isn't that significant if it is late in the combo, for instance after 3d2, f23, f23.

I don't use the sword in my corner combos unless I'm trying to wall-bounce my opponent and get them away from the corner with b13. My bnb corner combo is 3d2, f23, f23, f12.

Point is though, d2~d4 is the only sure way to hit the rising sword in the corner.

3d2, f23, f23, d2~d4, 112 does 44% compared to 3d2, f23, f23, 112~d4, 112 which does 52%
3d2, f23, f23, 112~de actually does 45%, so there's literally no damage to be gained by using the d2~sword in that combo. It's only good for a set up, like you mentioned

I agree with you about not using the sword in the corner, though. Ares gets pretty solid meterless corner damage even without using the sword to extend it. I usually just hold on to my sword and save it as a launcher.

Damage scales horribly on D2's compared to 2,2, B1, or 1,1,2. Another thing I haven't added yet is with 2,2/D4, the sword whiffs. I think this also applies with B1 and maybe 1,1,2 as far as launching the opponent goes.

This is for sure a legit problem. You can't even start combos off of 22 or b1 in the corner because the sword will never hit, although I've never had a problem off 112. Well, to be fair it's sort of not that big of a problem because they have to be literally touching the corner and that doesn't happen that often in a real match, but it's still pretty bullshit that the sword whiffs there.

 

[WaywardStranger]

Well, to be fair it's sort of not that big of a problem because they have to be literally touching the corner and that doesn't happen that often in a real match, but it's still pretty bullshit that the sword whiffs there.

I agree, it is bullshit. Although hit-confirming 112 when your opponent is touching the corner should be the ideal situation for mb-Phase Shifter frame trap; followed by fully invisible high/low mixups. Such as

• 3d2 or 3~dd4
• d1~d4 or b21~d4
• throw

[This is theoretical tech at this point.]

 

[Astrocytic]

Alright, now to start off by saying that Ares players have been wanting a buff for a while so that Ares keeps up with the rest of the cast.

This is specifically to address his pressure up-close.

Data on tools to address:
Sliding Strike(b+1): Start Up: 15 Block Advantage: -1
Front Knee(f+1): Start Up: 12 Block Advantage: -2 Hit Advantage: 22

Those two are the only ones that should be buffed imo.

Now, this is what it could be:
Sliding Strike(b+1): Start Up: 12 Block Advantage: +1
Front Knee(f+1): Start Up: 12 Block Advantage: -1 Hit Advantage: 32-35

His b+1 should resemble as Sektor's f+2
His f+1 should resemble as Kabals f+4

Discuss.

 

[Juggs]

Alright, now to start off by saying that Ares players have been wanting a buff for a while so that Ares keeps up with the rest of the cast.

This is specifically to address his pressure up-close.

Data on tools to address:
Sliding Strike(b+1): Start Up: 15 Block Advantage: -1
Front Knee(f+1): Start Up: 12 Block Advantage: -2 Hit Advantage: 22

Those two are the only ones that should be buffed imo.

Now, this is what it could be:
Sliding Strike(b+1): Start Up: 12 Block Advantage: +1
Front Knee(f+1): Start Up: 12 Block Advantage: -1 Hit Advantage: 32-35

His b+1 should resemble as Sektor's f+2
His f+1 should resemble as Kabals f+4

Discuss.

Merged this to the existing Buff Ares thread.

 

[Astrocytic]

Merged this to the existing Buff Ares thread.

Got it.

What are your opinions on this?

 

[Hellbringer]

Alright, now to start off by saying that Ares players have been wanting a buff for a while so that Ares keeps up with the rest of the cast.

This is specifically to address his pressure up-close.

Data on tools to address:
Sliding Strike(b+1): Start Up: 15 Block Advantage: -1
Front Knee(f+1): Start Up: 12 Block Advantage: -2 Hit Advantage: 22

Those two are the only ones that should be buffed imo.

Now, this is what it could be:
Sliding Strike(b+1): Start Up: 12 Block Advantage: +1
Front Knee(f+1): Start Up: 12 Block Advantage: -1 Hit Advantage: 32-35

His b+1 should resemble as Sektor's f+2
His f+1 should resemble as Kabals f+4

Discuss.

Not every ares player wants buffs... He just got a buff, wich already make him alot better. He already got top 8, sure its only one tournament but still...it seems like everyone wants his main to be top tier...

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I want his Sword bug fixed in the corner and maybe B1 to do 5%...and maybe his traits to not disappear when you get hit.

 

[The Gabriel]

b1 is already a good normal so doesn't need a buff. the only buff on a normal he needs is d2 to be a viable anti-air

 

[xInfra Deadx]

b1 is already a good normal so doesn't need a buff. the only buff on a normal he needs is d2 to be a viable anti-air

General anti airs except for Aquaman and Hawkgirl are pretty shitty anyway, that could be more of a universal buff if anything...and on his B1 on punishes, it's a bit disheartening to only get 30% off that punish.

 

[The Gabriel]

General anti airs except for Aquaman and Hawkgirl are pretty shitty anyway, that could be more of a universal buff if anything...and on his B1 on punishes, it's a bit disheartening to only get 30% off that punish.

eh you get as much as any normal into sword combo, right? Ares just doesn't do much damage outside of the reset. And while I believe the list is bigger than Aquaman and Hawkgirl, I think Ares deserves a decent AA due to his bad mobility options, terrible backdash, etc.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

eh you get as much as any normal into sword combo, right? Ares just doesn't do much damage outside of the reset. And while I believe the list is bigger than Aquaman and Hawkgirl, I think Ares deserves a decent AA due to his bad mobility options, terrible backdash, etc.

1,1,2/D4 and 3,D2 is where he gets his damage from (outside of his zoning). B1/D4 is around the high 20's/low 30's...as I said, maybe...but I understand if they don't touch it.

 

[The Gabriel]

1,1,2/D4 and 3,D2 is where he gets his damage from (outside of his zoning). B1/D4 is around the high 20's/low 30's...as I said, maybe...but I understand if they don't touch it.

Yeah but you are never going to land 112 in a match except for a few specific block punishes (like doomsday's normal shoulder charge), and are never going to land 3d2 except for either a lucky unstuffed jump-in or not-blocked-correctly wake-up, so the vast majority of the time your combos are going to start with d1d4, b1d4, or 22d4, so you have to go into the reset options