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General/Other Ares Buffs thread - Balanced & Practical Changes

WannabePlayer

Apprentice
I just thought of a really powerful but fair buff Ares could use. What if when he uses his trait, he can recover from it faster for some insane setups. For example, if he were to use b4 fullscreen and instead of being stuck in that animation which takes so long to recover, he recovers much sooner so that he could just have enough time to teleport in front or behind his opponent for some really awesome setups, or pressure at the very least. The recovery frames on some of his trait moves are ridiculously long, and this buff would help with that, and help him make a more viable option than he already is. Using his trait for setups like this would still be difficult to do, which is one of the many reasons why it's fair. His trait isn't that great, and this could make it much better. Before anybody shouts that this is overpowered, keep in mind that Ares, while good, can be better to compete with the rest of the cast. Also, this: (watch from 53s)


Please consider this idea with this in mind: this is a competitive game and the whiners get what they want. The more we campaign for buffs/nerfs, the more likely they are to happen, which is how Deathstroke and Scorpion got slightly worse. We should be "crying for buffs" now before it's too late.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
I just thought of a really powerful but fair buff Ares could use. What if when he uses his trait, he can recover from it faster for some insane setups. For example, if he were to use b4 fullscreen and instead of being stuck in that animation which takes so long to recover, he recovers much sooner so that he could just have enough time to teleport in front or behind his opponent for some really awesome setups, or pressure at the very least. The recovery frames on some of his trait moves are ridiculously long, and this buff would help with that, and help him make a more viable option than he already is. Using his trait for setups like this would still be difficult to do, which is one of the many reasons why it's fair. His trait isn't that great, and this could make it much better. Before anybody shouts that this is overpowered, keep in mind that Ares, while good, can be better to compete with the rest of the cast. Also, this: (watch from 53s)


Please consider this idea with this in mind: this is a competitive game and the whiners get what they want. The more we campaign for buffs/nerfs, the more likely they are to happen, which is how Deathstroke and Scorpion got slightly worse. We should be "crying for buffs" now before it's too late.
That would make him a bit ridiculous if straight axe get less recovery...think God Smack frame traps...that would be fucked up.

At this point there are 3 things that he really needs
1. 2,2_B1/Rising Sword to NOT WHIFF UP TIGHT AGAINST THE CORNER. Biggest priority right here.
2. Better anti air. He can't do shit with anyone just jumping all day unless you jump too, and that is not his strength.
3. Trait projectiles need to NOT DISAPPEAR WHEN ARES GETS HIT. This should only apply to the straight sword/axe and not the up/down traits.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
That would make him a bit ridiculous if straight axe get less recovery...think God Smack frame traps...that would be fucked up.

At this point there are 3 things that he really needs
1. 2,2_B1/Rising Sword to NOT WHIFF UP TIGHT AGAINST THE CORNER. Biggest priority right here.
2. Better anti air. He can't do shit with anyone just jumping all day unless you jump too, and that is not his strength.
3. Trait projectiles need to NOT DISAPPEAR WHEN ARES GETS HIT. This should only apply to the straight sword/axe and not the up/down traits.

About the aintiair, you still have options for antiair, his straight axe is ok and has good hitbox altough it doesnt do much damage, but ive also had succes doing the downaxe following up with F23 depending the height you hit them.
Another thing ppl forget about is armored B/F3 for AA, altough you have to be carefull for characters like flash with multiple hits when jumping in.

I agree on the other 2 points
 

WannabePlayer

Apprentice
That would make him a bit ridiculous if straight axe get less recovery...think God Smack frame traps...that would be fucked up.

3. Trait projectiles need to NOT DISAPPEAR WHEN ARES GETS HIT. This should only apply to the straight sword/axe and not the up/down traits.
I agree with all your buff ideas, they are very basic things I think all Ares mains think he needs. I'm not trying to outright disagree with you, I just want to start a discussion. Isn't it your own fault for using the trait badly? A smart Ares main could would use his trait in a smart way. Other Ares mains might try to just throw it out there for pressure/chip, etc, but Ares has better options than that, at least fullscreen. Up close it's a bitch, but even I still have the tendency to throw it out there and then facepalm when it disappears because I had a lot of better options like DE, mbDE, etc. What if this buff was a tradeoff instead? What if the damage was significantly buffed (which would be fitting for Ares and makes sense since he already has a 14% mb projectile), and the disappearing feature was still there? Or what if it did the same damage and didn't disappear at all?

To be honest, I still think the way you put it is better, and it's similar the way everyone else put it in this thread. I just wanted to give some food for thought.


As for my suggestion to reduce the recovery frames on his trait, yes, GS frametraps would be messed up, but that's not exactly what I had in mind when I suggested it (though it sounds AWESOME), lol. When Ares throws his trait, he can't do anything afterwards for a long time, even something as simple as throw a DE. It takes a long time after the opponent is hit to do something. Fullscreen, this sucks, and midscreen, it sucks even more. At the very least I want the recovery frames to be shortened so he could have enough time to throw out a GS, a DE, or a teleport JUST as his trait passes through his opponent. I think that's fair, because if it's blocked, he could get in for some pressure (and the opponent could have enough time to react to a GS with a jump or something), and if it hits, he can full-ish combo.

At the most, I'd like to at least see or try out what it would be like if he could recover from his axe or other trait options quick enough to do what Zod was doing to Superman in that trailer. I think it makes sense when you consider the character on paper, but in practice, it can lead to some devastating, but fair enough stuff that Ares could use to compete with higher tier characters. I'm thinking it would be great if Ares could teleport in front or behind his opponent just as the trait touches them, or passes through them so he could start his pressure or full combo. At the very least, I'd like to see this be done fullscreen.

Again, before anyone outright says this is broken, keep in mind that things like this seem more "broken" than they actually are put into practice. I'd at least like to see this implemented so that we could give it a chance. Given this new character, and some of Ares's MU's, I think this buff could really help him in certain MU's (not to say that Ares sucks, but he could be better). Also keep in mind that we shouldn't be satisfied with a game in which there's a tier gap (unless you like the way MK9 brought out the best in players who used non top-tier caracters). Every character in this should be the best that they could be. We shouldn't be happy with having S tiers and C tiers. We should aim and campaign for everybody in the game being a good S-A tier character.

Anyways, sorry this post was so long, so TL;DR: I think Ares could use the buff to his trait to make it not disappear, but we should all consider at least what that means first and try to give ourselves time to find better ways to use it, and I still think that the recovery frames on his trait should be lessened, at least slightly.
 

WannabePlayer

Apprentice
About the aintiair, you still have options for antiair, his straight axe is ok and has good hitbox altough it doesnt do much damage, but ive also had succes doing the downaxe following up with F23 depending the height you hit them.
Another thing ppl forget about is armored B/F3 for AA, altough you have to be carefull for characters like flash with multiple hits when jumping in.

I agree on the other 2 points

Part of the point of an anti-air is that it should be a normal. We shouldn't have to waste trait or meter to anti-air while every other character can just do a d2 into a combo. Straight axe, I think, is his best anti air, but even then it comes out too slow, and if you let go of it and JUST get hit, you lose your trait.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Part of the point of an anti-air is that it should be a normal. We shouldn't have to waste trait or meter to anti-air while every other character can just do a d2 into a combo. Straight axe, I think, is his best anti air, but even then it comes out too slow, and if you let go of it and JUST get hit, you lose your trait.
But why should it be a normal? like i said you can use B/F3 to anti air wich every character can do. Yeah it costs meter but im fine with that it pays off big time anyway. And i dont think every character can d2 into a combo. Atleast not as good as aquaman or grundys one.
 

WannabePlayer

Apprentice
But why should it be a normal? like i said you can use B/F3 to anti air wich every character can do. Yeah it costs meter but im fine with that it pays off big time anyway. And i dont think every character can d2 into a combo. Atleast not as good as aquaman or grundys one.
Why should we use a bar of meter for an anti air when no other character is forced to use that option? Also, mbB3 of mbF3 can be blown up by any jump-in attack into a string. Ares's b3/f3 options are pretty slow and stubby, and whenever I try to use it, I usually get hit through my armor.
 

DuskAlloy

You don't got the cash, You don't get the ass
I just thought of a really powerful but fair buff Ares could use. What if when he uses his trait, he can recover from it faster for some insane setups. For example, if he were to use b4 fullscreen and instead of being stuck in that animation which takes so long to recover, he recovers much sooner so that he could just have enough time to teleport in front or behind his opponent for some really awesome setups, or pressure at the very least. The recovery frames on some of his trait moves are ridiculously long, and this buff would help with that, and help him make a more viable option than he already is. Using his trait for setups like this would still be difficult to do, which is one of the many reasons why it's fair. His trait isn't that great, and this could make it much better. Before anybody shouts that this is overpowered, keep in mind that Ares, while good, can be better to compete with the rest of the cast. Also, this: (watch from 53s)


Please consider this idea with this in mind: this is a competitive game and the whiners get what they want. The more we campaign for buffs/nerfs, the more likely they are to happen, which is how Deathstroke and Scorpion got slightly worse. We should be "crying for buffs" now before it's too late.
Seriously this... if you want a character to get nerfed or buffed all you have to do is complain loud enough, so I would suggest all low tier characters start campaigning for buffs
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Why should we use a bar of meter for an anti air when no other character is forced to use that option? Also, mbB3 of mbF3 can be blown up by any jump-in attack into a string. Ares's b3/f3 options are pretty slow and stubby, and whenever I try to use it, I usually get hit through my armor.
Thats because you do it too late. Im still experimenting with it but it had succes so far. Yeah its slow but you can't throw it out when they are already hitting you with the jumpin.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
About the aintiair, you still have options for antiair, his straight axe is ok and has good hitbox altough it doesnt do much damage, but ive also had succes doing the downaxe following up with F23 depending the height you hit them.
Another thing ppl forget about is armored B/F3 for AA, altough you have to be carefull for characters like flash with multiple hits when jumping in.

I agree on the other 2 points
I suppose if you HAD TO, a MB F3 would be better than B3 on all accounts. Then again, we have characters like Aquaman, Hawkgirl, Killer Frost who anti air real easy without meter.
 

WannabePlayer

Apprentice
Seriously this... if you want a character to get nerfed or buffed all you have to do is complain loud enough, so I would suggest all low tier characters start campaigning for buffs
Exactly. Worst case scenario, they implement it, we try it, and if it truly IS amazingly overpowered (which I doubt it will be at high level play, which is what all TYM-ers should be focused with), then it can get nerfed in the next patch. It's still early in the game, so we shouldn't be afraid to try certain things like this.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
I suppose if you HAD TO, a MB F3 would be better than B3 on all accounts. Then again, we have characters like Aquaman, Hawkgirl, Killer Frost who anti air real easy without meter.
Yeah that makes them really good characters but its not like all characters have the same good AA. But idk, imagine ares with a godlike AA, that would be a huuuuge buff
 

The Gabriel

Mean Man
When you look at scorpion, you see that Ares should either have a better walk speed or better dashes. He is the only character in the game where both options are terrible. "But he has a teleport" you say - well he doesn't have one that moves him backwards (or away from the opponent forwards) so that point is moot.

Ares needs his 22 fixed - that isn't even a buff, it's a freakin bug fix. Since we will never get a backwards teleport, then the start-up on his needs to be reduced. Better hitbox on j2 would be nice as well...but really he would be fine almost as-is if certain completely overpowered characters were normalized...ie supes f23, black adam everything, batman j2, scorpion j3.
 

WannabePlayer

Apprentice
Since we're thinking about Scorpion in relation to Ares, keep in mind that a huge part of Scorpion's game is jumping. Ares would better be able to handle the matchup if he had a good or even a decent anti-air. As it stands now, he does not.
 

The Gabriel

Mean Man
I forgot, the other fix (not buff) Ares needs is the straight axe input when sword has been used glitch. I've lost several matches due to it...incredibly annoying
 

4x4lo8o

Warrior
I forgot, the other fix (not buff) Ares needs is the straight axe input when sword has been used glitch. I've lost several matches due to it...incredibly annoying
What exactly is this?
It's the thing where you have to go back to neutral before doing b4 or it doesn't come out, right? I've had it happen but I've never been sure what exactly causes it
 

4x4lo8o

Warrior
Since we're thinking about Scorpion in relation to Ares, keep in mind that a huge part of Scorpion's game is jumping. Ares would better be able to handle the matchup if he had a good or even a decent anti-air. As it stands now, he does not.

So I know this sounds kind of crazy, but try d2 against Scorps j3. It works surprisingly well
 

4x4lo8o

Warrior
yes...it happens whenever sword trait is on cool down
Oh that's ridiculous. I thought it was kind of random or complicated, but that's a super common scenario. They should fix that. I wonder if there's a better way to bring attention to this and possibly get it fixed than just bitching about it in this thread.

colt
I know thread's full of buff suggestions that you're (probably correctly)ignoring, but is there any chance of bugs like the straight axe input when sword trait is on cool down or sword whiffing in the corner after certain strings(22~d4, b1~d4, sometimes 3~d4) being addressed?
We'd feel better knowing you're at least aware of the issue. Thanks.
 

LaR

Apprentice
What about giving him an mb tele that either has much faster start up and is still unsafe or has the same start up frames but is completely safe.