General/Other - Ermac Are You Satisfied with The Design of Ermac?

[Temjiin]

By BBB, you mean 222 yes? If so, also agreed. He can deal up to almost 40%, if you go for full dmg.

No. His B1 sucks as it is. Shitty hitbox, thats why i said it needs to be fixed. That move isnt even a special mid. Against almost everyone it almost hits high. F4 is super unsafe on its own, minus on hit, which means you NEED to commit, thats why i said f43 to be cancelable.

The only safe strings he has, are 11, b12, b123, 34 (rarely used cause it sucks) and f212. Everything else is unsafe. B123 is super solid, but unreliable cause of the stupid hit box of b1.

From my own summary that's a solid character, compared to the top 10, nothing more. He is gimmicky as hell, like Scorpion was in MK9. Almost the same, except he has superior down pokes.

Sorry 222.... was in SCV mode for a moment.

He has some stagger potential with 11 being +2, F2 being -1 (I think?) F3 being 0 (again I think). He's not a pressure machine but he can certainly rush down without committing to too much risk.

Isn't B1 supposed to be a high?

I don't see him as gimmicky, although hover feels pretty pointless to me. I've only been using MOS a few weeks as I've finally given up on Mystic. I also edited my points a little.

 

[Metzos]

Sorry 222.... was in SCV mode for a moment.

He has some stagger potential with 11 being +2, F2 being -1 (I think?) F3 being 0 (again I think). He's not a pressure machine but he can certainly rush down without committing to too much risk.

Isn't B1 supposed to be a high?

I don't see him as gimmicky, although hover feels pretty pointless to me. I've only been using MOS a few weeks as I've finally given up on Mystic.

F2 is -2f. F3 is -2 or -1f.

B1 is supposed to be a mid, according to the frame data, unless they changed it after the latest hotfix.

I meant his mix ups are gimmicky, like Scorpion's mix ups were in MK9. High risk/ high reward.

Mos is fine as a variation, cause of force ball. Ermac, in general, is not.

 

[Dope Dojo]

I believe Master of Souls is a great Variation. Soul Ball capture leads to a solid 50/50. Almost every touch can convert into a 35-40% combo (often meterless) with meter he can do upwards of 46% (Not worth it imo) He has quick strings with an 11 frame and 12 frame punish. A 6 frame d1 and a d3 that is very solid.

*Note F2 D1 2 isn't completely safe as some characters can armor through it

Where Ermac falters is, how unsafe he is. Every special in his arsenal minus ex air blast is combo punishable on block from up to sweep distance. His teleport is so slow it's almost comical (25 frame startup) However it can lead to massive damage on hit, so that's a fair trade I suppose.

He is a bait & mind game character. If you guess wrong, he will make you pay for it, although that's a mute point since that is a trait shared by damn well everyone.

He has no good reversals. Ex Teleport only has Armor off of wake up...I don't know why someone thought that was a good idea when countless character's moves have armor in general. Keep the move as unsafe as it is (-17) but give it armor for ex in general. Ex Soul Blast, some have already mentioned has a faulty hitbox. Here is a demo taken from one of my early matches:

No slide, no low profile. Simply moved forward, ex soul ball whiffed completely.

In summary, I think MOS needs very minor, minor tweaks. Hit box issues.
==================

Mystic needs help. This is on paper, supposed to be Ermac's Zoning variation. Yet, for the variation that is supposed to focus on how good his TK moves are, all of them are horrendously unsafe on block. TK Push means nothing when someone can run cancel to block and be right back in your face. (Personal gripe) Also, the variation has no real damage, at least not compared to Master of Souls. Given that this is "zoning" I'd be accepting of that if the zoning moves were actually...good. Make his TK moves less punishable on block and this would be fine. Or throw the armor on ex Tele Lift....something. A damage boost? Anything really.


Spectral: Trying to break down Spectral would take a book. This variation is useless. Recovery on flight, not being able to block in the air. He flies slow. Is prone to uppercuts the moment he goes in for pressure, the normals aren't very good and have awkward hit boxes. He needs meter to do anything even remotely damaging. He can't air dash....I don't know why.

Honestly, I shouldn't have been surprised. As I recall when they showed off Spectral on the stream it got no real attention. It was like, "here he can fly, not hover. Look at him float and use interactables in the air.....and we're done." I expected Spectral to have some Marvel esque combos. Which you can get in the corner. NJP, flight, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, air blast....woo fun.

This variation needs help, I think the general Ermac community just pretends it isn't there. Only person I've seen use it is K Frog. Best thing I can say about Spectral is the Soul Crusher has 10 frame startup. Never mind the fact it's -23 on block and has no armored variant. It can be used as a decent punisher.

 

[Zoidberg747]

This is only from MoS though and that's my problem

A lot of characters only have 1 or 2 good variations, thats kind of how variations systems work. Its impossible to make 70-80 fully viable variations, so you need to either play the best one or move on. Im not opposed to mystic or spectral buffs btw, but complaining when you have a possibly top 10 variation just seems dumb to me.

 

[Dope Dojo]

I really dont think instant air-force blast is -9f on block. And ex version, when done instantly, is alot more than +1f.

I don't know, I'm looking at it right now. It says Air burst 10 frame startup. Block advantage -9. Ex version Block Advantage +1

I'd be more content if F43 was safe on block while still being un-cancellable. His damage is fine for a keep away character, NRS just needs to work on him being able to play keep away.\


Frame data for air moves usually shows how much recovery it has at highest point I believe, which is when they have the most recovery, and the lower the move is done the lower the recovery usually is.
Low instant air blast is safe.

Ah okay, that makes sense. Wish it would say that in the data in game though lol. Only so much you can cram into a menu I suppose.

 

[KNX]

A lot of characters only have 1 or 2 good variations, thats kind of how variations systems work. Its impossible to make 70-80 fully viable variations, so you need to either play the best one or move on. Im not opposed to mystic or spectral buffs btw, but complaining when you have a possibly top 10 variation just seems dumb to me.

Dude, I'd take 2 good variations for Mac. Most characters have at least 2 variations worth playing. Some characters are fortunate enough to have 3, and the really fortunate characters have 3 variations that are straght up good.

And FYI I've long moved on lol. I dropped Mac like a 2 days after Mystic got nerfed. When a character isn't working for me I don't tend to stick around. MoS isn't that interesting to me, that's the reason I wish he had another variation worth playing. It's not just based on the strength/viability of a character either, it's down to how interesting they are to play or what they offer that's unique from his other variations. Have you gone through the options Mac has in Spectral? No one can ever tell me that this variation isn't half-assed. NRS did a shit job plain and simple. Mystic is more complete but every option is inferior to what he has in MoS. Damage, setups, zoning... it's all worse, and nothing to make up for it.

If NRS are already going through the trouble of "normalizing" some character's variation, is it wrong to want this character's variations "normalized"?

 

[Shark Tank]

Dude, I'd take 2 good variations for Mac. Most characters have at least 2 variations worth playing. Some characters are fortunate enough to have 3, and the really fortunate characters have 3 variations that are straght up good.

And FYI I've long moved on lol. I dropped Mac like a 2 days after Mystic got nerfed. When a character isn't working for me I don't tend to stick around. MoS isn't that interesting to me, that's the reason I wish he had another variation worth playing. It's not just based on the strength/viability of a character either, it's down to how interesting they are to play or what they offer that's unique from his other variations. Have you gone through the options Mac has in Spectral? No one can ever tell me that this variation isn't half-assed. NRS did a shit job plain and simple. Mystic is more complete but every option is inferior to what he has in MoS. Damage, setups, zoning... it's all worse, and nothing to make up for it.

If NRS are already going through the trouble of "normalizing" some character's variation, is it wrong to want this character's variations "normalized"?

I hate mos too. When I was getting hype for this game and shit and making gd threads color coded I thought he would be a mid screenish control character(it's how I thought mos/mystic would play). However with run and huge negative frames I can't play him to my liking and MOS is LITERALLY everything I hate about this game, crazy 50/50s into high damage. They turned my husbando into a rush down fool, that not as good as other rush down fools because he can't os to be safe(not that I think he needs a buff he mostly fine). Kenjustu seem much more like how I wanted ermac to play and I'd never thought i'd main the teleknetic student over the master, but 50/50 vortex characters aren't for me. Ofcourse if they were to give some decent buffs to mystic, maybe...but I doubt they would and it's his only tool for midscreen unlike kenshi who has a couple options. And spectral does indeed suck ass but I wouldn't play it anyway.(But I'm for buffs ofcourse)

 

[Afumba]

A lot of characters only have 1 or 2 good variations, thats kind of how variations systems work. Its impossible to make 70-80 fully viable variations, so you need to either play the best one or move on. Im not opposed to mystic or spectral buffs btw, but complaining when you have a possibly top 10 variation just seems dumb to me.

Maybe its impossible to make all characters have 3 fully viable variations but they can at least try.
Settlnig for "as long as everyone has a variation that doesnt suck" is not the way a variation system should work. It would be just a lazy concept that way.
Also its definitiv possible to make lots of current variations better with reasonable things. Why shouldnt they do it & whats wrong about discussing upon it?

Beside that i dont agree with the statement "you have a top 10 variations its dumb to complain". Its irrelevant in order to discuss reasonable stuff to improve bad/mediocre characters/variations. Further i treat the variations like separate characters so if an MoS player says Spectral needs help its the same as if he would ask it for Balanced Kenshi. If i go by your logic i could say "why help Kenshi... move on to Scorpion he has a sword too" or "why help Kenshi they are so many other characters just move on". There really is no difference for me between this and your statement.
You are basically suggesting ppl should stop caring about characters as long as they have a good character to play, which for me is a the dumb thing.

Spectral needs some sorts of overhaul & Mystic needs a bit of help too. Discussing upon it is reasonable and justified as most ppls feel this way.
Telling ppl they are dumb for doing so is sad.

 

[Big D]

I'm not trying to be a smart ass but no win will feel like mk9 because MKx is what master of souls is

Ive had that feeling too =(

 

[zaf]

General Ermac buffs i would like him to receive:
Fix the fucking hit box of b12.
Concistent armor on wake up ex tp, cause this is getting ridiculous.
Regarding EX force blast being low profiled, i think its intentional, cause simply, it cant be done consistently. You have to use it as a wake up tool on reaction, not a read. If its not intentional, then it needs to be fixed. Also make it completely safe and increase its start up frames. That alone should deal with the low profiling issue i believe. That move is slow regarding what it does, which is pretty much nothing.

Yea B12 whiffing when it is labeled as a MID is annoying.

Check that video posted above by @Dope Dojo

*** You can beat out ermac's force blast by simply walking forward.
I will be making a thread on this today. I just need to make a proper video. But the one Dope dojo posted pretty much shows the issue with the move

No slide, no low profile. Simply moved forward, ex soul ball whiffed completely.

In summary, I think MOS needs very minor, minor tweaks. Hit box issues.
==================

Guys check this video out.
This has to be a bug.
I can not see a reason to give ermac an armored move when you can avoid it by walking forward.
@colt

I was replicating this issue/bug 100% last night.
There are multiple ways to make the move completely whiff when you can easily see the hitbox touching the opponent.
Watch out for my video thread later today

MoS currently does not need any buffs. He needs fixes to his hitboxes on a few moves

- Ex soul blast
- b12 whiffing when it is labeled as a mid ( If it is a high, then sure it does not need fixing)

This is all I ask. These two moves to be re-worked. Jacqui got this treatment. Why can't ermac ?

 

[Zoidberg747]

Maybe its impossible to make all characters have 3 fully viable variations but they can at least try.
Settlnig for "as long as everyone has a variation that doesnt suck" is not the way a variation system should work. It would be just a lazy concept that way.
Also its definitiv possible to make lots of current variations better with reasonable things. Why shouldnt they do it & whats wrong about discussing upon it?

Beside that i dont agree with the statement "you have a top 10 variations its dumb to complain". Its irrelevant in order to discuss reasonable stuff to improve bad/mediocre characters/variations. Further i treat the variations like separate characters so if an MoS player says Spectral needs help its the same as if he would ask it for Balanced Kenshi. If i go by your logic i could say "why help Kenshi... move on to Scorpion he has a sword too" or "why help Kenshi they are so many other characters just move on". There really is no difference for me between this and your statement.
You are basically suggesting ppl should stop caring about characters as long as they have a good character to play, which for me is a the dumb thing.

Spectral needs some sorts of overhaul & Mystic needs a bit of help too. Discussing upon it is reasonable and justified as most ppls feel this way.
Telling ppl they are dumb for doing so is sad.

You guys have to realize though that in order to buff the bad variations you have to buff moves that are only found in that variation. So if you buff any of his normals or other traits you are also going to buff MoS, who certainly doesnt need any buffs. I would be cool with them buffing spectral's fly ability to somehow not be shit, and buffing mystic's zoning, but thats about it.

And they can try but some of the variations are designed to suck. I honestly can't see how spectral ermac could be good without buffing Ermac as a whole, which is my point.

P.S. The Kenshi buffs were probably overkill, at least IMO. I would've preferred they only buffed 1 or 2 variations not all 3.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

The logic of "X has to suck because the character is good in 1 variation" isn't a good argument imo. Especially that they've shown us that they're willing to add new moves (Shinnok's and Kitana's new b3's) or adjust existing strings into something totally different to give it a better purpose (Quan's Warlock scoop). They can do stuff similar to that for Mystic/Spectral.

I honestly don't see Spectral being worth anything unless they give him sort of projectile and/or better flight normals, like a diagonal one downwards that you can only use in flight mode so he can try to keep his space or be a threat kinda like Hawkgirl did. Seriously wtf is the point of his flight right now where he has no ranged tools and has to close in and use his SA normals which are downright awful? I don't understand how that passed at all, like someone legit thought that it's usable as it is now?

Tanya's existence alone diminishes any hope for Spectral to be good even with buffs but still lol.

 

[Afumba]

You guys have to realize though that in order to buff the bad variations you have to buff moves that are only found in that variation. So if you buff any of his normals or other traits you are also going to buff MoS, who certainly doesnt need any buffs. I would be cool with them buffing spectral's fly ability to somehow not be shit, and buffing mystic's zoning, but thats about it.

And they can try but some of the variations are designed to suck. I honestly can't see how spectral ermac could be good without buffing Ermac as a whole, which is my point.

P.S. The Kenshi buffs were probably overkill, at least IMO. I would've preferred they only buffed 1 or 2 variations not all 3.

And you have to realize that peoples arent dumb. If you have read all the posts in this thread you should have seen that ppls dont want Ermac broken but adjusted. If you´d play Ermac you would also know that you dont need to touch his normals to make Mystic/Spectral better either.

Mystic could easily be made equal just by improving tkp... After that he probably needs only 1 other little thing to make the variation at least as viable. Maybe a meter drain buff or stamina freeze on something or his old hang back or add a new string/normal or whatnot.
For Spectral they could just give him more airgame.... airgrab, some sort of dive, airprojectiles, some type of air blink, air pull, some strings and more normals while airborne, give charge an ex move that launches or make.... man srsly at this point even if he could fart while airborne would make him better. Saying you cant improve Spectral without hurting the other variations is just your lack of knowledge about the character.
Dont even know what to say to "some variations are meant to suck". Yea i bet the designer in charge for those is really good & a proud guy every day he has to do his job lol. Imagine a surgeon or a pilot would work with that attitude.

Something not needing buffs is not the same as perfecting something. No harm in that. And if you telling me that MoS is perfect i will laugh so hard that i fall of my chair. He doesnt need a buff in the sense that he is weak but he could use adjustments to perfect him & this wouldnt hurt anybody. Ppls discussing that also doesnt. Besides if you have noticed ppls are not just plainly saying "give him that blabla" but they are also discussing upon if he will be broken after receiving said thing. Giving him armor on ex tp is a good example for that. If you get some attention on matters its by discussing things, you surely wont by beeing silcene.

Fact is Ermac has tools that are pathetic the way they work. Even a good variation like MoS. Some things outside of Mystic/Spectral specific:
Ex Burst is a gtfo move which doesnt work as it should. Also 5% damage is not going to scare anyone especially not if you can beat it out easily.
Ex vanish is a waste of bar. Sure it guarantees you to disappear but everything else is a plus for the opponent. You are in his mercy. As someone that plays Dvorah (you do right?) you should know how bad this move is in general.
Adjusting one of his strings would also not hurt anybody. Most of his strings are unsafe and everything that starts with kicks is not cancellable even though he has several strings with 3/4. His b1 needs the hitbox adjusted & if it were for me his b2 should be changed or replaced.

Now if you are happy with your character having lots of stuff not working as long as he is good thats your attitude & thats fine. I am not cuz there is more potential than that without making a mess aka mk9 kabal/cyrax/kenshi & that attitude is just as fine.

Ppls did call Raiden & EB fine. Other ppls say they are now fine after their nerfs. I dont see why those above MoS adjustment would be a problem when ppls call TG Raiden & Outlaw EB "fine now". At best he would be on par with them if you would apply them all.

Well i rather stop here i repeated myself enough already... no offense meant though. Such statements make me angry, nothing personal.

P.S. i honestly dont mind the Kenshi buffs. I dont play him & have no experience against him so i cant say much about it. But that they made adjustments to all variations is a good thing in my book. At least it makes it look that they want all variations to at least work and be somewhat good.
This give me hope for Ermac but also for all other variations that need such a treatment.

 

[Dope Dojo]

Ex disappear should have less recovery or something. Just a quick note.

 

[Nyaa]

F212 does not have gaps so you can just hitconfirm off F21 into D2 on hit or 2 on block. I think it's still +1 on block, or did they change that?

Better hitbox on B1 would be a huge buff for him, imo. I would very much welcome it.

 

[Zoidberg747]

And you have to realize that peoples arent dumb. If you have read all the posts in this thread you should have seen that ppls dont want Ermac broken but adjusted. If you´d play Ermac you would also know that you dont need to touch his normals to make Mystic/Spectral better either.

Mystic could easily be made equal just by improving tkp... After that he probably needs only 1 other little thing to make the variation at least as viable. Maybe a meter drain buff or stamina freeze on something or his old hang back or add a new string/normal or whatnot.
For Spectral they could just give him more airgame.... airgrab, some sort of dive, airprojectiles, some type of air blink, air pull, some strings and more normals while airborne, give charge an ex move that launches or make.... man srsly at this point even if he could fart while airborne would make him better. Saying you cant improve Spectral without hurting the other variations is just your lack of knowledge about the character.
Dont even know what to say to "some variations are meant to suck". Yea i bet the designer in charge for those is really good & a proud guy every day he has to do his job lol. Imagine a surgeon or a pilot would work with that attitude.

Something not needing buffs is not the same as perfecting something. No harm in that. And if you telling me that MoS is perfect i will laugh so hard that i fall of my chair. He doesnt need a buff in the sense that he is weak but he could use adjustments to perfect him & this wouldnt hurt anybody. Ppls discussing that also doesnt. Besides if you have noticed ppls are not just plainly saying "give him that blabla" but they are also discussing upon if he will be broken after receiving said thing. Giving him armor on ex tp is a good example for that. If you get some attention on matters its by discussing things, you surely wont by beeing silcene.

Fact is Ermac has tools that are pathetic the way they work. Even a good variation like MoS. Some things outside of Mystic/Spectral specific:
Ex Burst is a gtfo move which doesnt work as it should. Also 5% damage is not going to scare anyone especially not if you can beat it out easily.
Ex vanish is a waste of bar. Sure it guarantees you to disappear but everything else is a plus for the opponent. You are in his mercy. As someone that plays Dvorah (you do right?) you should know how bad this move is in general.
Adjusting one of his strings would also not hurt anybody. Most of his strings are unsafe and everything that starts with kicks is not cancellable even though he has several strings with 3/4. His b1 needs the hitbox adjusted & if it were for me his b2 should be changed or replaced.

Now if you are happy with your character having lots of stuff not working as long as he is good thats your attitude & thats fine. I am not cuz there is more potential than that without making a mess aka mk9 kabal/cyrax/kenshi & that attitude is just as fine.

Ppls did call Raiden & EB fine. Other ppls say they are now fine after their nerfs. I dont see why those above MoS adjustment would be a problem when ppls call TG Raiden & Outlaw EB "fine now". At best he would be on par with them if you would apply them all.

Well i rather stop here i repeated myself enough already... no offense meant though. Such statements make me angry, nothing personal.

P.S. i honestly dont mind the Kenshi buffs. I dont play him & have no experience against him so i cant say much about it. But that they made adjustments to all variations is a good thing in my book. At least it makes it look that they want all variations to at least work and be somewhat good.
This give me hope for Ermac but also for all other variations that need such a treatment.

First, I said that complaining about something was dumb, not that anyone in particular was dumb. I just meant I dont agree with it, no need to take it personally.

Secondly, I just said in my last buffs that I think they should buff mystic zoning and spectral's air game. So...

Third, I dont think MoS is perfect by any stretch. But no character should be anywhere near perfect so that is moot. I dont think he should get buffed and if he does it should be a very very minor tweak. I like vortex characters to have weaknesses. I understand the frustration in moves not working like they should, but that happens with every character. Have you ever seen Dvorah's B3, or Takeda's flipkick(tornado strike). They are laughably bad, but it doesnt matter because if you ignore those tools they both have other tools that are much better(Dvorah is way better than Takeda though, to be clear).

Problem is Ermac is a 50/50 vortex character. Trying to buff him in anyway(Talking MoS here) could potentially make him dumb. Those characters you listed are dumb for other reasons, but that doesnt change the fact that Ermac is walking a thin line. I dont care if he gets some fixes or tweaks, maybe a minor universal buff, but MoS is pretty much exactly where he should be.

Its nothing personal from me other, just my opinion after all.

 

[Afumba]

First, I said that complaining about something was dumb, not that anyone in particular was dumb. I just meant I dont agree with it, no need to take it personally.

Secondly, I just said in my last buffs that I think they should buff mystic zoning and spectral's air game. So...

Third, I dont think MoS is perfect by any stretch. But no character should be anywhere near perfect so that is moot. I dont think he should get buffed and if he does it should be a very very minor tweak. I like vortex characters to have weaknesses. I understand the frustration in moves not working like they should, but that happens with every character. Have you ever seen Dvorah's B3, or Takeda's flipkick(tornado strike). They are laughably bad, but it doesnt matter because if you ignore those tools they both have other tools that are much better(Dvorah is way better than Takeda though, to be clear).

Problem is Ermac is a 50/50 vortex character. Trying to buff him in anyway(Talking MoS here) could potentially make him dumb. Those characters you listed are dumb for other reasons, but that doesnt change the fact that Ermac is walking a thin line. I dont care if he gets some fixes or tweaks, maybe a minor universal buff, but MoS is pretty much exactly where he should be.

Its nothing personal from me other, just my opinion after all.

Never said you did. I was just stating that we arent. In your post you make us look as if we dont know how to differentiate between stuff that affects one Ermac with stuff that affects them all. Further i dont take things in a discussion personal, i just get angry about certain type of statements or the way they are stated. I reply to that & thats that.

Yea - but you also said that in order to buff variations you need to change things that affects all variations & that Spectral cant be made any good without changing his other variations as well. Both statements are generally wrong & i listed some things how it could be done without affecting MoS. Further i added MoS related things just to clarify that even if it would affect MoS as long as it doesnt break MoS its a non issue.

Ermac has a vortex, true but he also has more than enough weaknesses to make up for it. I doubt you can give someone more weaknesses for having the type of vortex Ermac has. And if so... poor guy. We also disagree on that perfection thing. If you can make a character better (especially gameplay wise) by adjusting not working tools without crossing the line you are talking about then it should be done. But to each his own oppinion.

On your Dvorah and takeda takes...
I play Dvorah beside Ermac so i know her b3. I agree its bad but i take it over Ermacs b2. But both are not too big of an issue. Its a normal, i could look past that if other stuff works. I cant look past several tools not working, especially when 1 or more specials are affected along with them.
If i had a say in NRS i would adjust Takedas Spinkick - I find it horrible. My attitude is not Ermac exclusive you know, its a general one.

 

[zaf]

F212 does not have gaps so you can just hitconfirm off F21 into D2 on hit or 2 on block. I think it's still +1 on block, or did they change that?
Better hitbox on B1 would be a huge buff for him, imo. I would very much welcome it.

No it is not +1 as far as I know.
Better B1 hitbox would be nice.

Third, I dont think MoS is perfect by any stretch. But no character should be anywhere near perfect so that is moot. I dont think he should get buffed and if he does it should be a very very minor tweak. I like vortex characters to have weaknesses. I understand the frustration in moves not working like they should, but that happens with every character. Have you ever seen Dvorah's B3, or Takeda's flipkick(tornado strike). They are laughably bad, but it doesnt matter because if you ignore those tools they both have other tools that are much better(Dvorah is way better than Takeda though, to be clear).
Problem is Ermac is a 50/50 vortex character. Trying to buff him in anyway(Talking MoS here) could potentially make him dumb. Those characters you listed are dumb for other reasons, but that doesnt change the fact that Ermac is walking a thin line. I dont care if he gets some fixes or tweaks, maybe a minor universal buff, but MoS is pretty much exactly where he should be.
Its nothing personal from me other, just my opinion after all.

Im pretty sure afumba meant perfect as in he won't require any changes. Not perfect in the sense of dragon ball z cell, where he has every known tool to man. That is not what the majority of us ermac players are asking for. We are generally asking for small tweaks to just fix some issues that his moves have. No character should be perfect I agree, but they should be perfect in that sense that their move list is polished and everything just works as intended. Ermac has some issues where some tools do not work and there are not other go to tools.

Also I do not think it is "ok" to accept that moves are not working saying "It happens with every character". Jacqui's tools were fixed. They weren't buffed/nerfed just tweaked so that they work.

Ermac armor not working for example, is not a scenario where we can just go to another tool. His ex force blast is the only move in the MoS variation that has armor ( Yes teleport has armor on wake up, but I am talking about non wake up scenarios)

Again like I said. Asking for fixes to current moves/specials is not a buff. Ermac is walking a thin line when it comes to being dumb, I can agree.
For example I listed that ex teleport could be given armor due to the fact that ex blast does not always work and that it might take a lot of re-working. I however went on record to say that giving raw ex teleport armor might be a little too strong. That giving him an armor launcher to use in gaps of strings that leads to a 30% vortex scenario is very strong.... scary even. So the proper solution is a re-work to ex blast.

MoS is pretty much where he should be and I can imagine ( once again) that when @Afumba said he is close to perfect... that this is also what he meant.

If you feel that we should look to other tools, when it comes to ex force blast... then please enlighten me on what we should try when our only armor move is bugged out ?

EDIT: Fixing B1 to actually hit mid all the time would be a nice tweak too. It is not a buff as on most characters this isn't really a problem. But on females and other characters, B1 can whiff from time to time. It is clearly listed as a mid. Once again, Jacqui had a similar issue fixed for her where she was unable to hit certain combos consistently on females. This was tweaked and polished off for Jacqui. The same can be done for ermac and anyone else in the game for that matter.

Also for this tool ( B1), it is a good advancing normal. Probably the best one that ermac has. If you want us to use other tools then once again enlighten me on which normal we should use when B1 is really our only go to advancing normal.

 

[DubiousShenron]

Jesus christ, air blast is a safe special and ex is + on block. I don't even know anything about ermac and I know that. Don't compare the character to reptile, please

 

[GGA N1k0lasss]

I really dont think instant air-force blast is -9f on block. And ex version, when done instantly, is alot more than +1f.

Insta air blast is around +1 and the ex is around +7 don't know the exact numbers though but they seem do be something like that

 

[KNX]

And they can try but some of the variations are designed to suck. I honestly can't see how spectral ermac could be good without buffing Ermac as a whole, which is my point.

Myself and others had already listed changes for Spectral that would not affect his other variations. Maybe you could look over those suggested changes on the previous page and say how his other variations would get buffed as a result? I don't see how they could because the tools unique to that variation are the ones that are lacking.

I disagree on your opinion that some variations are designed to suck... OK, inevitably some variations are going to be inferior to others, but I guarantee 100% no designer or balance tester would go through the trouble of designing a variation, finding out the tools don't work and say "It sucks, oh well". This should be obvious as there have been improvements made to several bad variations already.

Regarding Spectral Mac I want to say it's a matter of time before improvements are made. Someone else said it correct that most Mac players just act like Spectral doesn't exist and it's hard to blame them. Spectral is a fundamentally broken variation that needs a complete overhaul. Very few characters in the game have only 1 variation worth playing. What I hope is that just because Mac players are satisfied with MoS (the only variation worth playing) doesn't mean they will ignore his other variations. Atm, it seems the player communities crying the most are the ones that got their changes.

Push in Mystic is in desperate need of a change to its recovery. Design-wise, Mystic is so cool but it gains nothing to differentiate itself from MoS. Like I said, the zoning, the damage, the setups, the neutral, it's all worse.

Spectral's implementation is all wrong. I want to say it's legit the worst variation in the game... A good chunk of the cast could play with no variation and be better than Spectral Mac. I actually get angry thinking about how bad Spectral is, it's a joke.

Also, D'Vorah's b3 isn't bad btw, just situational, nothing like Mac's b2. Two things make it usable imo. Her midrange buttons and her blockstrings. You can make players hesitant to press buttons at b3's max range. Then there's also the fact that it's neutral on block and you can combo after it in the corner. Situational like I said but it's something you can add to your game the more familiar you are with her moveset. I notice PPJ is using it a lot more now for instance.

 

[Nyaa]

I think a lot of players would like ex teleport to be armored always, and I can see that. There are a lot of characters that already have ex armored moves that gives a full combo on hit, some even have SAFE versions of this. It's only natural to want some sort of balance.

Ermac have potential but he certainly have a lot of faults.

 

[Temjiin]

Some ideas to make Spectral viable:

Give him an EX DDU with armour to get airborne out of pressure
Give him a 6f move from fly
Make D3 from fly unblockable
Make most normals from fly slightly +
Give him a grab option from fly
Make teleport overhead from fly

I honestly think he needs at least 3 of those 6 to be close to viable. As it stands you're better off on the ground.

 

[Jaku2011]

This thread is making me wanna try Spectral to see how it goes.

 

[Temjiin]

I do feel EX blast needs to do some damage though, losing in damage trades just to send the opponent full screen isn't always great.