General/Other - Ermac Are You Satisfied with The Design of Ermac?

[Shania Twain]

it was obvious kenshi was awful without any sort of thread or person making a thread about it on here. if anything all the overpowered characters are the one people need to be silent about because for a hot couple weeks everyone and their mom was kung jin, scorp, and a sub, then making threads saying "OMG don't nerf them" that basically just told them to nerf them. regardless all 3 of those are still very powerful and their kombos are much easier to pull off than the rest of the cast. I was playing Kung Jin the other day and it blew my mind how easy his combos were and how easy he was to learn. I'm sure there is advance stuff with him obviously just saying. I thin Ermac is still very viable. I still to this day encounter good ermacs.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

i agree with Pig that kenshi required some serious tweaking, i took him day1, played in lab and was amazed how bad his frame data was.
but you guys dont even understand that mystic and spektral are soooooooooo bad that literally no one in sane mind plays them...
i love ermac, but im tired playing MoS.
spektral aint even fun... it's pure masochism in it's pure form.

 

[Error]

EX blast should hit mid, do 12% and knock opponent back to sweep distance.
I agree with making B34 -5 at worst.
Mystic Push should be less negative on block, and EX should drain a little more meter to offset the meter it gives the opponent.
Spectral I don't even know, maybe allow it to combo off push meterlessly or give levitate less recovery to he can do Sindel-esque pressure.

 

[Temjiin]

EX blast should hit mid, do 12% and knock opponent back to sweep distance.
I agree with making B34 -5 at worst.
Mystic Push should be less negative on block, and EX should drain a little more meter to offset the meter it gives the opponent.
Spectral I don't even know, maybe allow it to combo off push meterlessly or give levitate less recovery to he can do Sindel-esque pressure.

I agree that grounded EX blast should do 12%. Meterless probably 8%. What is this move exactly? An unsafe poke? I hate using EX to GTFO me and lose in a damage trade as well as have the opponent full screen where MOS doesn't really want them to be.

I really don't know how Spectral can be buffed.

 

[KNX]

Spectral and Mystic need something to set themselves apart.

NRS dropped the ball with Mac's variations. He had something about him with the 10% unscale on Mystic Lift, but they took that out, leaving him with literally nothing.

Spectral just needs a revamp. Mac is still my fave MK character but I can't even play him in this game because his most interesting variations are stupidly bad.

 

[Temjiin]

Spectral and Mystic need something to set themselves apart.

NRS dropped the ball with Mac's variations. He had something about him with the 10% unscale on Mystic Lift, but they took that out, leaving him with literally nothing.

Spectral just needs a revamp. Mac is still my fave MK character but I can't even play him in this game because his most interesting variations are stupidly bad.

But his best variation is pretty good. He can compete with almost every character.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I agree that grounded EX blast should do 12%. Meterless probably 8%. What is this move exactly? An unsafe poke? I hate using EX to GTFO me and lose in a damage trade as well as have the opponent full screen where MOS doesn't really want them to be.

I really don't know how Spectral can be buffed.

this character has 2 other variations.....
huh.

 

[TurboTaco]

But his best variation is pretty good. He can compete with almost every character.

MoS is a really good variation so I feel bad for complaining but I wish his other variations were more interesting. Spectral is unique but it is laughably bad and Mystic has nothing to offer over MoS.

 

[zaf]

But his best variation is pretty good. He can compete with almost every character.

When you say almost every character, do you mean to imply he has bad bad match ups ? I currently don't feel he does but can I get your opinion on this ?

Because of his 50/50 nature and vortex.....Under the right circumstances ( meter for ermac and opponent) he can make insane comebacks that almost have nothing to do with match ups at all off one touch...

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

some buffs i would like:
fix the hitbox on ex forceblast so people cant dash into you, making it not hit
make push -13 so its actually useful
non-mystic force lift doing more than 4% damage make it around 9%.

 

[KNX]

MoS is a really good variation so I feel bad for complaining but I wish his other variations were more interesting. Spectral is unique but it is laughably bad and Mystic has nothing to offer over MoS.

Exactly. Fuck MoS for now, idgaf about that variation.

As for buffing Spectral. I'd personally give him these things (knowing that this'll never happen). They're mostly to do with the fact that Soul Accession is just the absolute shittiest and laziest idea in the game and NRS should feel bad for implementing it as they have.

My totally fair and balanced Spectral Mac buffs:

- Give him an Air Dash. After watching Tanya gameplay, I asked myself yesterday, why the hell does Spectral Mac not get any real movement options whilst in SA? Flight is his thing yet he can't do shit in the air.
- His SA normals are disgraceful. He needs better air-to-ground normals. SA4 should hit all the way underneath him and be surrounded by green soul energy to blow up anti-airs. SA2 is -12? Why? SA1 should be 7 frames maximum. SA3... have you seen it's animation? Just lol. One good SA normal would've been nice.
- His ground pound off of SA should be unblockable just like Jax's ground pound is unblockable in Pumped Up, because why the fuck not?
- Soul Charge should have a MB version that has armor. If not, make it either safe or start a combo, straight up.
- He should've gotten more unique SA attacks as well. A diagonal dive punch for instance, a unique air projectile, something that's actually interesting lol.
- And how about a safe way to cancel out of SA? Such a stupid oversight. Once you're in SA you're stuck there unless you slowly float your ass back to the ground, wait a long ass time or commit to a special.

Basically you shouldn't be able to fuck with Spectral Mac once he's in the air, that's his specialty in this variation, yet all he gets is a set of really bad buttons and allow you to run some unsafe gimmicks while hanging in the air like a sitting duck.

Man looking back at those changes, Spectral Mac might be a little cray, but at least he'd be fun.

With Mystic, just give me back 10% unscale damage on Hang and reduce the recovery frames of Push on block (from -25 to around -10). For a move that offers nothing but fullscreen pushback (despite Mystic Mac being optimal in mid-range) I don't know why it's so free to punish for the entire cast... I just don't get it.

 

[Temjiin]

When you say almost every character, do you mean to imply he has bad bad match ups ? I currently don't feel he does but can I get your opinion on this ?

Because of his 50/50 nature and vortex.....Under the right circumstances ( meter for ermac and opponent) he can make insane comebacks that almost have nothing to do with match ups at all off one touch...

I'm certainly no expert. However I think Grandmaster Sub is a possible bad one?

I am of the general opinion that he can beat anyone, all top tiers included for sure. MOS cannot be counted out against anyone.

 

[zaf]

I'm certainly no expert. However I think Grandmaster Sub is a possible bad one?

I am of the general opinion that he can beat anyone, all top tiers included for sure. MOS cannot be counted out against anyone.

Haven't played enough subs to know yet. Most I have ran into don't play grandmaster...
However nikolasss beat Tom Brady at combo breaker I heard

 

[Metzos]

General Ermac buffs i would like him to receive:

B32 being cancelable.

f43 being cancelable.

Fix the fucking hit box of b12.

Concistent armor on wake up ex tp, cause this is getting ridiculous.

Variation buffs:

Mos is fine the way he is.

Mystic, where do i even begin.

Make TKP -15f. Someone in the above posts, said make it -12f, but i think thats too much, cause of its stupid active frames and hit box. Mystic is like a pre patch Kenshi atm. He needs that buff.

Either return his 10% unscaled damage from raw lift, or increase his damage in general. Highest damage he can pull off atm, without meter, is 36% and that is with a jp.

Sprectral needs to be scrapped and revamped, period (unless there is something we are missing which i highly doubt). I agree with @KNX. Spectral should be all about mobility. His SA moves suck so bad its sad.

Regarding EX force blast being low profiled, i think its intentional, cause simply, it cant be done consistently. You have to use it as a wake up tool on reaction, not a read. If its not intentional, then it needs to be fixed. Also make it completely safe and increase its start up frames. That alone should deal with the low profiling issue i believe. That move is slow regarding what it does, which is pretty much nothing.

 

[Temjiin]

I'd actually like a better walk back speed as I'm always going for trip guards and getting stuffed but that's a luxury buff.

@zaf you might be right, I don't see how he can lose to anyone badly. Any time you can get a D3 there's a 50% chance of 40%.

 

[Phosferrax]

or increase his damage in general. Highest damage he can pull off atm, without meter, is 36% and that is with a jp.

That's actually really good for meterless damage.

 

[Phosferrax]

God I wish Spectral was useful but I think it's already too late to hold out hope. There are problems with his movelist, or lack there of, and I don't think they can patch in what he needs.

 

[Metzos]

That's actually really good for meterless damage.

Its 34% without a jp and that comes from f21d2. So its a punish. From 50/50's he deals less dmg.

 

[Temjiin]

I think some of the buff requests for Ermac are really excessive. The character is good.

PROS:
Massive meterless damage from 50/50
Great punish in BBB soul ball
Amazing D3 which low profiles - this is annoying as Mileena's D4 from MK9
Can win projectile trades and counter-zone.
Good spacing and whiff punishing with B1/F4 or raw soul ball
Strong in the corner
A lot of safe strings
Scary at full screen and rushing down
Good X-ray (it is lol)

CONS:
A lot of his good pressure starts high
Nothing safe to cancel into
Unreliable wakeup

....From my own summary that's a pretty fucking good character.

 

[Phosferrax]

Its 34% without a jp and that comes from f21d2. So its a punish. From 50/50 he gets lesser dmg.

34% is doing well for a meterless punish though.

But if the variation actually did what it was supposed to do then I would agree with the 50/50's doing less damage. I think Mystic will get buffed after the resent Kenshi buffs, but Spectral was fucked from the start.

And what ever happened to armour on ex lift?

 

[KNX]

I think some of the buff requests for Ermac are really excessive. The character is good.

PROS:
Massive meterless damage from 50/50
Great punish in BBB soul ball
Amazing D3
Can win projectile trades and counter-zone.
Good spacing game with B1/F4
Strong in the corner
A lot of safe strings
Good X-ray (it is lol)

CONS:
A lot of his good pressure starts high
Nothing safe to cancel into
Unreliable wakeup

....From my own summary that's a pretty fucking good character.

This is only from MoS though and that's my problem

 

[Metzos]

I think some of the buff requests for Ermac are really excessive. The character is good.

PROS:
Massive meterless damage from 50/50
Great punish in BBB soul ball
Amazing D3
Can win projectile trades and counter-zone.
Good spacing game with B1/F4
Strong in the corner
A lot of safe strings
Good X-ray (it is lol)

CONS:
A lot of his good pressure starts high
No safe specials
Unreliable wakeup

....From my own summary that's a pretty fucking good character.

PROS:

Agreed.

By BBB, you mean 222 yes? If so, also agreed. He can deal up to almost 40%, if you go for full dmg.

Agreed.

Agreed, except if opponent has teleport, you need to be carefull there.

No. His B1 sucks as it is. Shitty hitbox, thats why i said it needs to be fixed. That move isnt even a special mid. Against almost everyone it almost hits high. F4 is super unsafe on its own, minus on hit, which means you NEED to commit, thats why i said f43 to be cancelable.

Agreed.

The only safe strings he has, are 11, b12, b123, 34 (rarely used cause it sucks) and f212. Everything else is unsafe. B123 is super solid, but unreliable cause of the stupid hit box of b1.

Agreed. His X-RAY is underrated. Good for AA scenarios, good hit box and active frames, relatively safe, provides push back and has good range.

CONS:

Agreed.

True.

EX force blast is solid if it is used on reaction, not a read.

From my own summary that's a solid character, compared to the top 10, nothing more. He is gimmicky as hell, like Scorpion was in MK9. Almost the same, except he has superior down pokes.

 

[Dope Dojo]

@zaf I'm confused. Air Soul Burst is -9 on block. Only Ex version is +1.

A bar of meter worth some extra block pressure? Granted the normal soul blast being -9 isn't god awful unless you happen to be close to someone.

 

[Metzos]

@zaf I'm confused. Air Soul Burst is -9 on block. Only Ex version is +1.

A bar of meter worth some extra block pressure? Granted the normal soul blast being -9 isn't god awful unless you happen to be close to someone.

I really dont think instant air-force blast is -9f on block. And ex version, when done instantly, is alot more than +1f.

 

[Error]

I'd be more content if F43 was safe on block while still being un-cancellable. His damage is fine for a keep away character, NRS just needs to work on him being able to play keep away.\

@zaf I'm confused. Air Soul Burst is -9 on block. Only Ex version is +1.

A bar of meter worth some extra block pressure? Granted the normal soul blast being -9 isn't god awful unless you happen to be close to someone.

Frame data for air moves usually shows how much recovery it has at highest point I believe, which is when they have the most recovery, and the lower the move is done the lower the recovery usually is.
Low instant air blast is safe.