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A Year Later Safe To Say The Gameplay Changes Did Not Work Out?

Expectations

  • Surpassed

    Votes: 11 8.7%
  • Met

    Votes: 38 29.9%
  • Disappointed

    Votes: 78 61.4%

  • Total voters
    127

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
Guys come on, lets be real here, BOTH breakers and break away's suck.

Terrible god awful mechanics.

I have very complicated opinions on MK11, its def the one I played the least.
In theory it's what I wanted out of MK, and I feel like they were going in a great direction by toning a lot of shit down.
However they went way too far in some directions and not far enough in others.
Combined with the fact they need to overhaul a lot legacy mechanics that really just don't have a place in a game like this.

Then the new stuff, Krushing blows and Fatal blows, which are neat mechanics, and fit with the new pace of the game, they just needed more time in the oven.. Custom variations, could have been amazing, but well, ya.

It feels like a combination of development troubles, horrible and downright evil management, having muddled vision and too many cooks in the oven.

Hopefully MK11 is supported a long time, just so NRS can take longer for the next game.

Maybe even make a UMK11 in the meantime for ps4/5 what ever were on right now.
 
Throws in 11 do more damage raw. They have a built in mix in their techs, as well as having a 30%+ punishment for guessing wrong on the mix.
maybe i'm missing something, but i don't get the hate for the extra 2% on the throws. It's like one extra jab worth of damage.

KB throws, also i think is another nice mind game thrown in. Obviously plays out better when players are on a similar level compared to being mismatched where you might always get it due to lack of knowledge.

What shouldn't happen is it being given to characters that already have a lot of KB options in their kit. If a character has low combo potential, or low damage output, then give them a few easy to do KB's to even things up. Or scale back the KB damage on those characters that already have every tool available. Nothing that can't be tweaked over time.

I think this is where they've tried to mix the game up and add some complexity. The combo potential may have diminished, but the mind games should be increased because players should be on the look out for characters KB setups etc. If you know your opponent and character and can stop them from knocking out KB after KB, or putting yourself in a position to negate their onslaught then you're in a better position at the end of the match.

It may not have played out like that initially, but given time they should be able to get the game into a happy place. Hopefully even to a point where the haters might even not gag at the thought of starting the game.

Just my thoughts through the eyes of a casual..
 

mastermalone

Use only logic, please
Care to elaborate? Enlighten me as to how FBs have consequence (and I can refer you to the many sources supporting my argument), you offered nothing constructive.
Well, for starters they are very unsafe on block. If your opponent is drunk enough to go for a raw fatal blow, they will be full combo punished. Now, if said character is Noob, Erron Frost, or Geras you need to have long range tools to punish them. Scorpion can break the rules of neutral all day and punish raw fatal blow attempts from these long rangers.

The characters I mentioned can easily punish each other for raw FB attempts. Characters with body contact or just close range fatal blows are very easily punished for raw FB attempts. I'm not quite sure which characters lack consequences for blocked fatal blows but list them so that I can better understand. If you are referring to whiffed, unpunished FB attempts and getting your FB back after a cool down, that's a different story. It should be wasted after a blocked or whiffed attempt.
 
If you are referring to whiffed, unpunished FB attempts and getting your FB back after a cool down, that's a different story. It should be wasted after a blocked or whiffed attempt.
My apologies, this is exactly what I was referring to, thank you for allowing me to clarify. If they were neutral or safe on block/whiff, that would be ridiculous and should go without saying. Completely agree with your post I should have chosen my words better. The one saving grace of this standalone mechanic is it is limited to once per match, but I agree that once you activate it, that should be it. Either that, or make its cost higher somehow.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
There were many combo routes and a character could not be labbed to optimal in a week. That simply does not exist in 11 minus some very few exceptions (Noobs dash cancel combos for example).
As I have said before, this criticism is fair so your point is well-received.

That is why I said what I said about throws in 11. They have become more than a 50/50 when factored into the strike/throw mix. I definitely do not believe throws were better in X. Throws in 11 do more damage raw. They have a built in mix in their techs, as well as having a 30%+ punishment for guessing wrong on the mix. More importantly, and far more annoyingly, is the amount of times it works on active frames. I can't believe how many times I see a D2 in its active frames get overwritten by a grab - on a correct read. Or a poke. Or a jab. I don't remember it happening to this extent in MKX, and hopefully this is something they can work on.
With the exception of krushing blows, Mortal Kombat X throws have all those properties too. In addition, the throws in Mortal Kombat X recover twice as fast as the throws in Mortal Kombat 11. Seriously, whiff a throw in both games and hold the block button and I assure you will be surprised. I used throws a lot in Mortal Kombat X because Tremor's mid strings were relatively slow. So I checked low pokes with d+1s and throws. Depending on screen positioning, Tremor could also get guaranteed follow ups because of the running. Nonetheless, throws were seldom used in Mortal Kombat X because 50/50 mix ups and pressure were the superior offensive options. Most characters in Mortal Kombat 11 have neither so the default mix up is strike or throw, and I fail to see what is unbalanced about this design. I do not understand this particular criticism whatsoever.
 
Resetting both characters to neutral is exactly why breakers were stupid, especially in a game where meter is built in no time. "Oh, I got opened up? Let me break with the press of a button so my opponent loses his advantage". And they were more frequent than breakaways, lets be honest.

I'm not a fan of the breakaway mechanic either but its surely an improvement on breakers. At least you loose your wakeup options and are completely vulnerable for a period of time in which a good offense can destroy you.
You don’t lose wakeup options at all. You still have short/long delay, hold up, and wakeup buttons. Ironically, they’re the better wakeup options lmao.
 

John Grizzly

The axe that clears the forest
Resetting both characters to neutral is exactly why breakers were stupid, especially in a game where meter is built in no time. "Oh, I got opened up? Let me break with the press of a button so my opponent loses his advantage". And they were more frequent than breakaways, lets be honest.

I'm not a fan of the breakaway mechanic either but its surely an improvement on breakers. At least you loose your wakeup options and are completely vulnerable for a period of time in which a good offense can destroy you.
Breakers were absolutely not more prevalent than Breakaways. You AUTO REGEN your meter in MK11. In MKX, you actually had to think about your meter and whether or not to use it for EX moves or save it for Breaker. If you think meter was gained quicker in MKX than it is (automatically) in MK11, then I honestly don't even know what to tell you, man.

"Oh god, I got opened up? Let me drop to the ground while this idiot dares to finish the combo he earned and then punish him for punishing me."
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
Just an example. After being plus, to simplify it, some options you have as the attacker are: do a high attack, do an attack that you can't neutral duck, do a throw, do a fast poke...

In mkx, the armor and the backdash are defensive options that the opponent has (unsafe or not depending on the case) to make you respect him in that scenario, that might buy him an escape at the cost of meter/stamina, since you are not plus enough to jail him. Those two options being gone in 11 make that blocking, trying a fast poke or neutral ducking to read a throw are basically the main options (yolo jumps etc aside), enforcing the strike/throw game and simplifying the situation. Having less options imo makes the game more bland, but of course it's a matter of tastes. I hope that now my point is more clear.
That makes sense. I'm in the camp of thinking that strike/throw still offers plenty of chances for depth. Especially when having something like flawless block mechanic and strings with exploitable gaps. If you're attacking or defending, as long as you can read your opponent, you have options and counter-play options.

I feel like the Armor made more sense in MKX, due to MKX having such stronger pressure and offensive tools. It made sense to give the defender a more powerful get-out-of-jail option.
 
The thing that really irks me with breakaways is that I find it very hard to judge when I can safely convert off anti-airing. Say I manage to anti-air S1 with Nightwolf and go for tomahawk and they mash breakaway, having it trigger close to the ground during the tomahawk hit - all of a sudden I'm punished for doing something that takes execution and level-headedness. Like, all these comeback mechanics make the game less enjoyable for me. Winning with comeback mechanics leaves me feeling blah as well.
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
I think it's just a reflection of where internet culture is right now. Everything is either amazing or it's terrible -- there's no middle ground, and nuanced commentary is dying a slow death along with constructive criticism.

Have something unfortunate happen to you at a restaurant? Leave them a 0-star review! Is there a view expressed in a movie or game that you don't agree with? Go flametorch crying on Twitter, review bomb them, 0 out of 5 stars, terrible product. Burn the entire house down at the slightest disappointment.

It only takes 20 seconds glancing at Metacritic, Youtube, Yelp, Twitter etc. to know that this is where things are going, and it's kinda unfortunate.
I would agree with you on breakaway if bat didnt auto refill. With defensive bar being separated and refilling automatically, if you have 2 bars you may as well just break, nothing to lose, that's what the defensive bar is for. At least in MKX it was the for bar for everything, and you had to build metre, so so there was some kind of metre management there. Should I break the combo and then have no bar to do any combos? Or keep the bar, take the damage, and cash out on a big combo for the comeback. While I prefer how breakaway is used, the way the resources work take out any depth for me. Injustice 2 had it right.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
The beta was a superior game.

Here's the thing, everything about MK11 that is a new or original idea is fantastic in theory. It all just got implemented in the absolute worst way while they catered to the MKX simps by buffing movement and taking away the unique amplify inputs.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
"Oh god, I got opened up? Let me drop to the ground while this idiot dares to finish the combo he earned and then punish him for punishing me."
Good players understand risk/reward to combos that can be punished by breakaway and end up pressuring the opponent after they breakaway. As opposed to a game like MKX where your combo just gets broken and you lose all momentum.

The mechanic also helped contribute to a bunch of terrible matchups in conjunction with the meter build system of MKX and MK9.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Good players understand risk/reward to combos that can be punished by breakaway and end up pressuring the opponent after they breakaway. As opposed to a game like MKX where your combo just gets broken and you lose all momentum.
Did you really lose all momentum when they broke in mkx though? Unless they were sitting on an x-ray, they had nothing left. I always salivated when they used two of their three bars to break. It was go time. Their offense was hindered, and all they had wakeup-wise was to delay. Which they would do, and you knew they would because it was the only option they had.

And I'm fully aware of stopping combos short in mk11 to stay safe from breakaway punishment. It's just a bit goofy sometimes when they have 2 bars of defensive meter, and you're anticipating their breakaway, you stop your combo (which you rightfully earned) short to stay safe/put yourself in position to pressure after the breakaway, and they didn't burn it. Now you just left damage on the table because

A.) They just didn't get the breakaway, execution error or whatever

Or

B.) They know you know your stuff and are aware that you know they have the bars to break away, and as such you will stay safe and stop your combo short. And thus, they get a breaker for no resources spent. Just because you were aware.

That doesn't, and never will fly with me.
 
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Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The foundations of this game is the best of what NRS has ever been, it has everything to make an amazingg game and workable functionalities.
The only thing plaguing this game are ver few like combo variety a bit more of consistency in mechanics, and of course the balance which ppl say is great and I think it's not.

It did a lot of things poorly, but post launch it did a lot of things great too.
Its not perfect but it's playable, online, offline, even if you get bored you will come back to it from time to time.

Its almost there, just needs to do more.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Did you really lose all momentum when they broke in mkx though? Unless they were sitting on an x-ray, they had nothing left. I always salivated when they used two of their three bars to break. It was go time. Their offense was hindered, and all they had wakeup-wise was to delay. Which they would do, and you knew they would because it was the only option they had.

And I'm fully aware of stopping combos short in mk11 to stay safe from breakaway punishment. It's just a bit goofy sometimes when they have 2 bars of defensive meter, and you're anticipating their breakaway, you stop your combo (which you rightfully earned) short to stay safe/put yourself in position to pressure after the breakaway, and they didn't burn it. Now you just left damage on the table because

A.) They just didn't get the breakaway, execution error or whatever

Or

B.) They know you know your stuff and are aware that you know they have the bars to break away, and as such you will stay safe and stop your combo short. And thus, they get a breaker for no resources spent. Just because you were aware.

That doesn't, and never will fly with me.
You can argue semantics guy but it's a reset to neutral. And I know some characters have to be more careful but I rarely stop my combos short, I just go for slightly less damage and "hit confirm"it.

Idk why you are commenting like I was specifically talking to you. The other guy is apparently not aware of counter play to breakaways
 
Its not perfect but it's playable, online, offline, even if you get bored you will come back to it from time to time.
THIS..! For me, this game quickly feels like constant tedious RPS if I play it too much, but when I dip in every other day as a side game to Tekken it's 10/10.
 

MadPropz101

"I still got it...but not much of it"
When it comes to the 3 NRS-era MK games (MK9, MKX, MK11) then this is easily the weakest entry. So much of MK11 feels lacking compared to the previous two and you get this distinct impression that it really was rushed out and they're still playing catch up one year later.
Reading something like this makes me wish I lived on another planet. How the FUCK can you say something so stupid and get that many likes? Mk11 feels rushed compared to Mk9, wtf lmao??
MK9 and MKX are games made for scrubs, the only thing they have over MK11 is the fact that you need more practice to get the combos down, other than that they are cancerous garbage with 99% of the roster doing shit that is absolutely retarded and should never exist in a fighting game.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
You can argue semantics guy but it's a reset to neutral. And I know some characters have to be more careful but I rarely stop my combos short, I just go for slightly less damage and "hit confirm"it.

Idk why you are commenting like I was specifically talking to you. The other guy is apparently not aware of counter play to breakaways
I only meant to talk about mkx breakers, but got carried away. I just can't stand this mechanic, even though I use and abuse it to the best of my ability. The guy that opened me up does not deserve to be getting punished because I dropped out at the right time. Feels wrong to me.

I didn't mean any hostility.