A Year Later Safe To Say The Gameplay Changes Did Not Work Out?

[Cobainevermind87]

If this is what you guys want, power to you

 

[Jowabunga]

I try to be positive about the game, that's why I stream it, but if it's broken, it's broken. Here's Scars getting D2 KB'd for fucking BLOCKING

R1 is her block button btw

This game is FULL of this nonsense. I played a bunch against Baraka tonight with a couple of throw KBs going off with no 'escape failed' before them, like 10-15 sweeps and forward 4s hitting me on wakeup even though I woke up blocking... and other nonsense. I really don't know why I keep going back to this.

 

[TheDylbot]

But twice now you have mistakenly claimed that a key difference between X and 11 is the fact that 11 features a throw mechanic where teching is in and of itself a 50/50. MKX had the exact same mechanic; press 1 or 3 to break a back throw attempt, and press 2 or 4 to break a front throw.

Dave’s point was that you were making a criticism of 11 while apparently being ignorant or possibly simply forgetting that the same system was in mkx, and that it can be frustrating when people make criticisms that aren’t valid.

No offense, but if you read my post again (The one you quoted), you'll see that no where did I say it was a feature exclusive to mk11. Additionally, I made that statement as it is a far more oppressive option in mk11 due to the shifted meta of strike/throw, in combination with other mechanics.

My statement was that this 50/50 is more than a 50/50 with 2 techs, which is a problem in THIS meta more so than in X. My criticism of throws however extends beyond just techs, the throws have KBs which punish players on a bad guess, do more damage (yes it matters), and - again - my highest personal gripe - works on active frames.

Want to know what's frustrating? When people disregard all your valid points and focus on one thing they interpreted differently.

 

[BringBackReptile]

My favorite MK11 moment is when I hit D2 and still get thrown like I'm fighting MK2 arcade AI.

 

[MKF30]

If I get a Jacqui I literally leave now in KL, IDGAF it's not worth it, I don't play broken characters. Played one the other day a lag switching jacqui no less so this guy wanted to win badly apparently, could not move literally her normals on top of lag? hahahaha...yeah that's not happening. The sad part is the shills on here actually try to defend shit like this...well all I have to say to that is enjoy what you like, and this is also why trash like MK 11 was rejected Evo lol.

My favorite MK11 moment is when I hit D2 and still get thrown like I'm fighting MK2 arcade AI.

One of the luxuries of MK 11's mechanics, getting thrown out of everything from sweep distance, to pokes, crouch animations to FB's the list is endless lol. Yeah...Jacqui is one of the many stupid broke characters in this game.

 

[appo]

It just happens randomly dude, doesn't matter who the opponent is. I went into the lab and tried to replicate it against Jax, couldn't do it.

So what would you suggest? Just not amping the shoulder that should obviously hit?

Maybe this adds to the depth of the game lol.

even with the 5 minutes where i tried it out i managed to get it to whiff in the corner. did not go deeper to see what causes it just wanted to see if its a unique thing or happen more often and apparently it seems to be a thing you should look deeper into.

i dont say that i like that the string whiffed or that i believe thats okay..definitely something wonkey in the corner which you should try to lab out to avoid it in the future.

the grab whiffpunish videos...i mean..what do you expect to happen there? she has a extended hitbox which you manage to whiffpunish but when your buttons for your string are to short thats what happens. think of you whiffpunishing dhalsims long arms on a whiff from him. you get that single hit but cant combo with other buttons further outside of specials moves due to him being to far away. first hit into whatever special would have worked on the grab for sure too. thats kinda normal and char dependent in term of if your strings have enough reach. i mean you could complain that some chars have t-rex arm strings but i guess that wasnt your point....

 

[Dogeofthesea]

So you seriously think a character with 0 safe special moves should do s1 into special? Instead of a 2 hit string hitconfirm into a launcher? Is that how people play MK now? Not to mention s1 doesn't combo into ~half special moves in this game

 

[appo]

So you seriously think a character with 0 safe special moves should do s1 into special? Instead of a 2 hit string hitconfirm into a launcher? Is that how people play MK now? Not to mention s1 doesn't combo into ~half special moves in this game

That's not about what I think that's just a observation about what happened there and why. Apparently the string he used had a to short reach for the second hit. Might want to use a other one in these situation or what I said above. What happened there is not a glitch its the result of the short range of the second poke and it will always happen when he whiff punishes a extended hurtbox like that so he has to lab his options.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

That's not about what I think that's just a observation about what happened there and why. Apparently the string he used had a to short reach for the second hit. Might want to use a other one in these situation or what I said above. What happened there is not a glitch its the result of the short range of the second poke and it will always happen when he whiff punishes a extended hurtbox like that so he has to lab his options.

I believe it IS a glitch and not intended. When she whiffs a throw, she moonwalks backwards during recovery. She's the only character in the game you can't neuch and punish. Liu used to moonwalk backwards during his whiffed throw animation, but they fixed that. I beg you to go frame by frame through the vids I posted (, to go one frame back . to go one frame forward) and tell me you don't see it.

I'm aware of the varying degrees of pushback on block this game has. Max range nomad dashes, soul eater reptile slides, sub slides, etc must be punished with a ranged normal, I get it. But if you whiff a throw point blank, you shouldn't magically slide backwards and render characters' point blank punishes useless.

Here's a frame by frame of punishing a whiffed throw with Kabal's 111

http://imgur.com/a/q8FY7NL

'Twas the first hit of 111 only.

 

[thlityoursloat]

I believe it IS a glitch and not intended. When she whiffs a throw, she moonwalks backwards during recovery. She's the only character in the game you can't neuch and punish. Liu used to moonwalk backwards during his whiffed throw animation, but they fixed that. I beg you to go frame by frame through the vids I posted (, to go one frame back . to go one frame forward) and tell me you don't see it.

I'm aware of the varying degrees of pushback on block this game has. Max range nomad dashes, soul eater reptile slides, sub slides, etc must be punished with a ranged normal, I get it. But if you whiff a throw point blank, you shouldn't magically slide backwards and render characters' point blank punishes useless.

I have a feeling it's intended and it's just part of NRS' agenda to shove this ugly bitch down our throats.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

It works when it feels like it

Please don't suggest to make an exception just for Jaqcui, I must react instantly to a whiffed throw and punish with a 14 frame S3~iceball. Or a 13 frame B32~iceball.

If the 2nd hit of 21 doesn't reach far enough, fuck it.

 

[craftycheese]

neuch

I'm totally stealing this word

 

[Cobainevermind87]

I'm totally stealing this word

Wouldn't be stealing it from me, so by all means.

 

[craftycheese]

It works when it feels like it

Please don't suggest to make an exception just for Jaqcui, I must react instantly to a whiffed throw and punish with a 14 frame S3~iceball. Or a 13 frame B32~iceball.

If the 2nd hit of 21 doesn't reach far enough, fuck it.

Ya, that just happened to me. I did d2 after she whiffed her throw and got the KB. In the same match I baited it out, made it whiff and then my d2 whiffed. Shame on me for thinking it would hit again I guess.

Honestly my main gripe with MK games in general is nothing in the games ever feels consistent. I don't feel 100% confident that anything I press will ever come out when I want it to come out. Like I could practice a pretty simple Terminator combo (f3,2 b3,1 xx Albi) 1000 times and still never feel like I quite got the timing down to press a button after f3,2 connects. I think this is the worst thing about the game. I'm fine with everything else

 

[james1926]

Do you know how many times a got Uppercutted KB out of mids...lol. It even once happenned when I wasn't even touching the controller. KB uppercuts are glitched since release.

 

[appo]

I believe it IS a glitch and not intended. When she whiffs a throw, she moonwalks backwards during recovery. She's the only character in the game you can't neuch and punish. Liu used to moonwalk backwards during his whiffed throw animation, but they fixed that. I beg you to go frame by frame through the vids I posted (, to go one frame back . to go one frame forward) and tell me you don't see it.

I'm aware of the varying degrees of pushback on block this game has. Max range nomad dashes, soul eater reptile slides, sub slides, etc must be punished with a ranged normal, I get it. But if you whiff a throw point blank, you shouldn't magically slide backwards and render characters' point blank punishes useless.

Here's a frame by frame of punishing a whiffed throw with Kabal's 111

http://imgur.com/a/q8FY7NL

'Twas the first hit of 111 only.

good observations. thats exactly what causes sub to whiff the string due to her hitbox moving away and the sim example happens. i wouldnt call it a glitch since what happens is supposed to happen due to her backwalk animation. its more a design flaw which should be corrected.

i checked the whole cast, liu still has his little backwalk but he is doing it at the end of the animation and not during it.
there is no other char in the roster (checked em all) where that happens so its jacqui exclusive.
she overall seems to have a smaller hurtbox. crouch 1 on block whiffs the sexond time while other cast members get hit by it but thats just a sidenote.

so...now knowing this, you go into the lab and check what you can do against it and there is a option which works 100% of the time.
you have to make a micro forwardwalk into the 1,2 string. just crouch to avoid the grab, hold forward and do it, it will work then like with the others and there is no special timing needed so you dont need to go for other strings. problem solved

thats why i said on the other example go and lab it out, see if there is something you can do to prevent it or at least know when it happens so that you have to change your strings. she is unique in that term but it wouldnt be the first time some things just work on specific chars. at least here you can do something against it to make it work.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

good observations. thats exactly what causes sub to whiff the string due to her hitbox moving away and the sim example happens. i wouldnt call it a glitch since what happens is supposed to happen due to her backwalk animation. its more a design flaw which should be corrected.

i checked the whole cast, liu still has his little backwalk but he is doing it at the end of the animation and not during it.
there is no other char in the roster (checked em all) where that happens so its jacqui exclusive.
she overall seems to have a smaller hurtbox. crouch 1 on block whiffs the sexond time while other cast members get hit by it but thats just a sidenote.

so...now knowing this, you go into the lab and check what you can do against it and there is a option which works 100% of the time.
you have to make a micro forwardwalk into the 1,2 string. just crouch to avoid the grab, hold forward and do it, it will work then like with the others and there is no special timing needed so you dont need to go for other strings. problem solved

thats why i said on the other example go and lab it out, see if there is something you can do to prevent it or at least know when it happens so that you have to change your strings. she is unique in that term but it wouldnt be the first time some things just work on specific chars. at least here you can do something against it to make it work.

I really appreciate you labbing all that out, she's literally the only character you can't duck and punish with your fastest buttons. I don't agree with it, I think it's a major flaw to give one of the best, if not THE best, rushdown character(s) in the game a throw that's harder to punish than everyone else's. I'll try microwalking as you suggested. Just glad you acknowledged it's weird.

I'll try to program it into my muscle memory as best as I can. Gonna be tough in the heat of the moment. Might have to train myself to microwalk against everyone's whiffed throw before I punish, just so it's consistent.

 

[Kitana Fan]

The only thing I really don't like about the gameplay is variations. Besides that, I like the feel of this more than MKX. To me, it feels closer to MK9.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I have mixed feelings on breakaway. I main reborn and I hardly ever breakaway because I'll lose access to a bunch of hitconfirms and and relative safety. I feel any character that relies heavily on defensive meter is very reluctant to use it on breakaway. When I'm playing baraka or even searing rage, I'll use it all the time.

I tend to look at the bright side when it's used against me. Most of the wakeup options that people complain about are gone and pressure on wakeup becomes a lot more threatening. In some cases I favor the other player sacrificing their options to negate some damage.

It can be frustrating at times, like after scorps f34kb, it's a free breakaway with no risk outside of the corner. His teleport launcher can be broken immediately, not allowing for uppercut damage or a fatal blow. It still comes with a pretty heavy penalty for the other player, though. I also have the luxury of solid combo routes without the risk of being punished.

I think breakaway adds more depth than people give it credit for. I dont think it deserves the hate it gets.

On everything else.

I do think the game has a decent variety of viable playstyles but I still think characters with a strong close up game outshine the others. I think movement and jumping plays a big roll in that. I'm not going to pretend to know exactly how to fix that but my obvious suggestions would be better anti air options and maybe toning down some of the really fast movement from wave dashing. The latter opinion may not be very popular but I feel that it adds to the heavy emphasis on strike/throw, basically giving characters with strong mids a clear advantage.

Bring back scorpions old d4 (lol) and buff the normals of some other characters in the game to keep people out. If that's done I think movement could stay the same. I'm no balance expert but these are my suggestions.