A community tier list, with contributions from some TYM members

[Skedar70]

I'm not saying the tier list is necessarily correct. But you discredit lots of other people's grodds opinions without any explanation other than they're worse than you. This would be alright if you were playing the best and doing okay with him. Like omegak has been going to tournaments and playing against solid competition and his opinion varys from yours from what I've seen.

TL/DR unless you're playing against top people, I don't give a shit about your ability to do prepatch crispy cancels, you can't just say your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong.

OmegaK just said a few post before mine. He doesn't consider Grodd a low tier character and he disagrees with this MU chart also. Goonie thinks the same.

 

[Skedar70]

I would like to be constructive in this but honestly you guys put Grodd like if he loses almost every mu in the game. I can't go one by one explaining why he doesn't lose all these mu. I don't know who bluesub is but did he really tell you that Grodd loses againt all these characters except a few?

Even if I did go one by one explaining how to play these MU, you probably would discredit my opinion and come at me because I am not a top player. It took OmegaK to come in on here and tell you that Grodd isn't as bad as you guys put him for you guys just to consider it. I don't see anybody here putting omegak on blast even though he came here and said the same thing I said.

 

[Crusty]

I would like to be constructive in this but honestly you guys put Grodd like if he loses almost every mu in the game. I can't go one by one explaining why he doesn't lose all these mu. I don't know who bluesub is but did he really tell you that Grodd loses againt all these characters except a few?

Even if I did go one by one explaining how to play these MU, you probably would discredit my opinion and come at me because I am not a top player. It took OmegaK to come in on here and tell you that Grodd isn't as bad as you guys put him for you guys just to consider it. I don't see anybody here putting omegak on blast even though he came here and said the same thing I said.

We never discredited you because you weren’t a top player. We descredited an disagreement that presented itself as spouting facts rather than promoting discussion. OmegaK was too general with his earlier remarks too so it didn’t help we didn’t know how to respond to it.

Im going to bring @Bleu231 and ask his remarks on this matter. Sorry for apparent confusion, but some of us simply don’t have the time to answer a question the moment it’s presented.

 

[SamZ]

I would like to be constructive in this but honestly you guys put Grodd like if he loses almost every mu in the game. I can't go one by one explaining why he doesn't lose all these mu. I don't know who bluesub is but did he really tell you that Grodd loses againt all these characters except a few?

Even if I did go one by one explaining how to play these MU, you probably would discredit my opinion and come at me because I am not a top player. It took OmegaK to come in on here and tell you that Grodd isn't as bad as you guys put him for you guys just to consider it. I don't see anybody here putting omegak on blast even though he came here and said the same thing I said.

YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING GRODD IS GOOD EVEN WHEN GRODD WAS COMPLETE DOGSHIT! YOU ARGUED HE WAS GOOD WHEN HE WAS BOTTOM 3. A BROKEN CLOCK IS RIGHT TWICE A DAY. DON'T BE MAD NOW THAT PEOPLE DONT WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

 

[Wigy]

OmegaK just said a few post before mine. He doesn't consider Grodd a low tier character and he disagrees with this MU chart also. Goonie thinks the same.

Dude, I already said I don't know if that mu chart is correct at all there's definitely some more 5-5s on there than represented. I just always see you completely discrediting what other grodd players say without an explanation other than suggesting they're not playing grodd right. Which is why I was asking at what level you play at. Can't just assume everyone's worse than you as an argument.

 

[Wigy]

Was just watching tyrant on grodd vs honeybee there and he definitely looks more scary than I thought. Things I hadn't thought of and such, so I'm completely open to the idea he might be better than I think but half the people in the grodd community just say you're bad without explanation (sometimes in block caps)

 

[Skedar70]

We never discredited you because you weren’t a top player. We descredited an disagreement that presented itself as spouting facts rather than promoting discussion. OmegaK was too general with his earlier remarks too so it didn’t help we didn’t know how to respond to it.

Im going to bring @Bleu231 and ask his remarks on this matter. Sorry for apparent confusion, but some of us simply don’t have the time to answer a question the moment it’s presented.

I was suspecting it was him. I know him he is not a downplayer and he is good I really dont think he believes Grodd loses this many mu. Did he provide all the mu numbers for Grodd?

YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING GRODD IS GOOD EVEN WHEN GRODD WAS COMPLETE DOGSHIT! YOU ARGUED HE WAS GOOD WHEN HE WAS BOTTOM 3. A BROKEN CLOCK IS RIGHT TWICE A DAY. DON'T BE MAD NOW THAT PEOPLE DONT WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

Grodd has been good for a couple of patches now. Ever since they removed the 22 gap he has been viable. You guys are just stuck in the past with this bottom 3 bs.

 

[The_Tile]

YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING GRODD IS GOOD EVEN WHEN GRODD WAS COMPLETE DOGSHIT! YOU ARGUED HE WAS GOOD WHEN HE WAS BOTTOM 3. A BROKEN CLOCK IS RIGHT TWICE A DAY. DON'T BE MAD NOW THAT PEOPLE DONT WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

Genuinely thought you were Goonie for a second there

 

[Skedar70]

Was just watching tyrant on grodd vs honeybee there and he definitely looks more scary than I thought. Things I hadn't thought of and such, so I'm completely open to the idea he might be better than I think but half the people in the grodd community just say you're bad without explanation (sometimes in block caps)

Of course. I takes some known player like Tyrant or OmegaK for you guys to actually believe what I say. What tyrant is doing is nothing new, Grodd has always had the same tools. Grodd just doesn't have tournament or stream representation for people to actually see what he is capable of.

 

[Ram]

Of course. I takes some known player like Tyrant or OmegaK for you guys to actually believe what I say. What tyrant is doing is nothing new, Grodd has always had the same tools. Grodd just doesn't have tournament or stream representation for people to actually see what he is capable of.

But that’s a great way of updating our knowledge though

 

[Wigy]

Of course. I takes some known player like Tyrant or OmegaK for you guys to actually believe what I say. What tyrant is doing is nothing new, Grodd has always had the same tools. Grodd just doesn't have tournament or stream representation for people to actually see what he is capable of.

Buddy you barely ever make a case. You just say everyone's wrong and must be bad.

Also ofcourse it's takes someone like them. Cause they actually play high level players and represent in tournament. I asked you who you play against and still haven't got a response.

 

[Crusty]

I was suspecting it was him. I know him he is not a downplayer and he is good I really dont think he believes Grodd loses this many mu. Did he provide all the mu numbers for Grodd

It’s not that simple.

Mus numbers are brought to the front and both reps provide why such that their opinion is the listed number or if they’re not an some other number, thoughts are dropped regardless.

We aren’t perfect and like to discuss things because some of reps our inactive or seem to forget this but there are plenty of revisions done before the version set before you. And even then, we aren’t claiming to be correct and we are bound to make mistakes which is why this is even here.

Like aside from total point count, the weight of a characters mus are factored in to determine where they stood and that’s why it’s not popular opinion, not always at least, hence why Harley is so low despite appearing very solid.

 

[Skedar70]

Buddy you barely ever make a case. You just say everyone's wrong and must be bad.

Also of course it's takes someone like them. Cause they actually play high level players and represent in tournament. I asked you who you play against and still haven't got a response.

I don't have a local scene so I play randoms online and couple of psn friends. If I am playing randoms I usually don't play against someone who is learning or isn't that good I keep searching until I find someone who is at a decent level and who I can have a decent set with.

My point is don't follow everything the top players say, or what a group of people say, I think you should test it yourself and form your own opinion or just stay quiet until you have enough information to form an opinion.

 

[Wigy]

I don't have a local scene so I play randoms online and couple of psn friends. If I am playing randoms I usually don't play against someone who is learning or isn't that good I keep searching until I find someone who is at a decent level and who I can have a decent set with.

My point is don't follow everything the top players say, or what a group of people say, I think you should test it yourself and form your own opinion or just stay quiet until you have enough information to form an opinion.

Grodd is primarily what I play. I'm not being some sheeple. I justify everything I say about grodd. I'd have to be an easy swayed person to listen to you because you give no justification and you have no credentials? You see my point?

 

[Undergroundepict]

I would like to be constructive in this but honestly you guys put Grodd like if he loses almost every mu in the game. I can't go one by one explaining why he doesn't lose all these mu. I don't know who bluesub is but did he really tell you that Grodd loses againt all these characters except a few?

Even if I did go one by one explaining how to play these MU, you probably would discredit my opinion and come at me because I am not a top player. It took OmegaK to come in on here and tell you that Grodd isn't as bad as you guys put him for you guys just to consider it. I don't see anybody here putting omegak on blast even though he came here and said the same thing I said.

Nobody is discrediting anybody.

IMO, the best chance to have an impact on the Grodd list would be to present your proposed changes the way the council would, and offer your insights on particular MU's one by one over a period of time. If you just dropped 11 in depth bombshell MU breakdowns on us at once it would clog up and overwhelm the system; certainly a lot of your effort would be lost as we wouldn't be able to process all of it. We took each MU one by one over a long period of time, and as such that is the format we are best equipped for.

Just pick the Grodd MU that you believe we are most off the mark on, or the one you feel you have the most readily available/compelling argument for, and drop it on us. If it is well done or there is compelling information that is presented to us, we will relay it to the respective representative councils.

 

[Skedar70]

Grodd is primarily what I play. I'm not being some sheeple. I justify everything I say about grodd. I'd have to be an easy swayed person to listen to you because you give no justification and you have no credentials? You see my point?

We already had this discussion in the Grodd forums.

You didn't justify anything of what you said. You just kept saying that Grodd didn't have a way to PROPERLY open someone up with grodd for a combe. You never answered what you meant by PROPERLY. That was some vague justification. People in the Grodd forums answered your question. There are many ways to open people up with Grodd (Staggers, Throws, Whiff punishes, Leaps, vortexes etc) but you just ignored what everyone said.

Now you are asking about credentials? I'm guessing that what you mean by this is again, since I am not a top 8 placer I don't believe what you say. You say you are not sheeple but I can tell that if sonicfox comes and tells you Raphael is the best character in the game you will believe and share it because he has "Credentials"

 

[Skedar70]

Green Arrow is not a very commonly played character, and while WoWo isn't necessairly rare to come across, she's certainly not common, either. It wouldn't surprise me if we were wrong about that particular MU, seeing as it's not a match that is very commonly run. I suppose a potential crack in our system could occur when both character reps agree right off the bat about a particular MU


Nobody is discrediting anybody.

IMO, the best chance to have an impact on the Grodd list would be to present your proposed changes the way the council would, and offer your insights on particular MU's one by one over a period of time. If you just dropped 11 in depth bombshell MU breakdowns on us at once it would clog up and overwhelm the system; certainly a lot of your effort would be lost as we wouldn't be able to process all of it. We took each MU one by one over a long period of time, and as such that is the format we are best equipped for.

Just pick the Grodd MU that you believe we are most off the mark on, or the one you feel you have the most readily available/compelling argument for, and drop it on us. If it is well done or there is compelling information that is presented to us, we will relay it to the respective representative councils.

Thats ok. Let everybody think whatever they wan't. People won't believe me anyways because I don't have "Credentials". I'm done with this discussion.

 

[Braindead]

I would like to be constructive in this but honestly you guys put Grodd like if he loses almost every mu in the game. I can't go one by one explaining why he doesn't lose all these mu. I don't know who bluesub is but did he really tell you that Grodd loses againt all these characters except a few?

Even if I did go one by one explaining how to play these MU, you probably would discredit my opinion and come at me because I am not a top player. It took OmegaK to come in on here and tell you that Grodd isn't as bad as you guys put him for you guys just to consider it. I don't see anybody here putting omegak on blast even though he came here and said the same thing I said.

You'll always be a top player in my heart <3

 

[Undergroundepict]

Thats ok. Let everybody think whatever they wan't. People won't believe me anyways because I don't have "Credentials". I'm done with this discussion.

I assure you that our opinion of whatever information you present will be based purely on the veracity of its content and not the "credentials" of the individual posting it. I don't see how my invitation to let us hear your actual opinons and participate in some way in the process can be any more welcoming and direct.

 

[Insomniac FGC]

I want to remind everyone here that match up disputes must be posted on the website forum in order to be considered (see link below).

https://www.nrstierlist.com/forums/topic/match-up-disputes/

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

@Dankster Morgan @DDutchguy I've relayed both your well thought out MU disputes to the council. Ideally though if you can post on the forum insomniac created that would be great. Otherwise, I'm happy to be the "mule" so to speak lol

 

[DDutchguy]

@Dankster Morgan @DDutchguy I've relayed both your well thought out MU disputes to the council. Ideally though if you can post on the forum insomniac created that would be great. Otherwise, I'm happy to be the "mule" so to speak lol

Gotcha, I can’t promise I’ll be able to remember it though. If you could be the mule for now I’d appreciate it and if I have anything else to say I’ll put it on Insomniac’s forum.

 

[Cursa]

We already had this discussion in the Grodd forums.

You didn't justify anything of what you said. You just kept saying that Grodd didn't have a way to PROPERLY open someone up with grodd for a combe. You never answered what you meant by PROPERLY. That was some vague justification. People in the Grodd forums answered your question. There are many ways to open people up with Grodd (Staggers, Throws, Whiff punishes, Leaps, vortexes etc) but you just ignored what everyone said.

Now you are asking about credentials? I'm guessing that what you mean by this is again, since I am not a top 8 placer I don't believe what you say. You say you are not sheeple but I can tell that if sonicfox comes and tells you Raphael is the best character in the game you will believe and share it because he has "Credentials"

OK I don't think I was a huge part of THAT discussion in the Grodd forum but the one where you just posted 2 videos and said "Here ya go, Grodd's not so bad" was what I was referring to (Which wasn't in the Grodd forum so my bad, don't remember where it actually was lol). We all looked at them, we talked about them and I shared why I thought these Grodd's were doing well in those videos. I gave my information, I gave my reasoning, and I was basically just using what I was seeing from those videos as my evidence for why I don't think Grodd is that great.

I'm not going to go into that discussion again, but I've said multiple times that taking a top players word as law for a character's placement is a bad idea, but it DOES force you to at least think about it. The same goes for seeing character at top 8. Otherwise we'd think that Flash is low tier still because of HoneyBee, or think Canary is top tier back when Sonic was wrecking with her, or think Darkseid is top 5 because Sonic "thinks so".

I'm just going to summarise my current thoughts on how Grodd plays the game.

I'm ready to be proven wrong. I am so ready right now. I want to be wrong because this character is ducking lit. He has decent stagger pressure with his now mostly negative SC's but that's about it for the neutral. Sets him up for throw loops which is probably the worst throw loop in the game but it's a loop nonetheless, can bait throw techs with B3's etc. Yet to see anyone open people up with it consistently as I see Black Adam and Supermen open people up with it but it's there. Leaps' kinda a bill in the neutral since most characters can just air-to-air it for free, or if they have strong anti-air (Which a lot of characters have at least one) then it's basically just a free combo. It's a counter zoning tool but if you're careful with your zoning and use your tools correctly then there's always a really basically answer for it.

His vortex(s) are actually super legit and scary but kinda overshadowed at his ability at getting them started (Which is a problem he has had since the game came out and has been buff/nerfed since then so it's hard to say whether he's slightly better or slightly worse). His D1 is the best in the game as a punisher and for poking out of normally pseudo plus frames like when Supermen do F23xxBreath -> F2 (Super gimmicky example I know but hopefully that makes sense). His D2 is strong. His damage is amazing. Wakeup game is good. D1 combo starter in trait. Good jump ins even though his jump is floaty still despite the recent buff.

I just don't see how anyone's getting opened up by a character with the tools mentioned.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

And as far as I'm aware, and according to the lack of discussion about it in the Grodd thread, his stampede cancels haven't changed as of recent page, so, correct me if I'm wrong but slack to check, Grodd's only plus cancels are off of 112 (High and still has a gap(?)) and S3, which is like +1.

Like I said, if I'm wrong @OtherGrodd's, pls correct me.

UR TELLING ME U PLAY GRODD AND U CANT TELL HIS CANCELS ARE PLUS???? CMON MAN- B1 CANCEL IS +7, F2+5 , S2+1, 2,2-0 D2-4

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

UR TELLING ME U PLAY GRODD AND U CANT TELL HIS CANCELS ARE PLUS???? CMON MAN- B1 CANCEL IS +7, F2+5 , S2+1, 2,2-0 D2-4

can you speak in anything OTHER THAN CAPS?