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SALTY 50/50s man

trufenix

bye felicia
Are we really still having this conversation? Have people just not gotten it yet?

MKX... is geared... towards offense. Ridiculous offense... such as 50/50s... that are safe... loopable... long range... or whatever.

This is the game we have, and have had, for sixteen months. Seriously, shitcan the "are 50/50s not fun/killing the game/broke" threads already. Every single one. This topic isn't a dead horse we're still beating. It's a grassy patch of dirt that flourished from the fertilizer provided by decomposition of tissue and meal created from the bones we continued to beat into dust.
If we complain enough, KP3 will nerf 75% of the characters in the game and turn it into chess. Trust me.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
If we complain enough, KP3 will nerf 75% of the characters in the game and turn it into chess. Trust me.
As much as I would love that, there's no chance of that happening. Hope for MK11 to be better and balanced
 

ryublaze

Noob
I think 50/50s are fine but they should have some sort of drawback. Right now the top tier characters have a combination of 50/50s that are safe/plus on block, launch, don't require meter, are unreactable or can't be fuzzied, and are easy to set up with little to no drawbacks. Hellfire Scorpion's a good example of a character whose 50/50s are done right imo.

Watch Red Raptor's Deathstroke sometime and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Idk y I was brought up, my DS was free lol
 
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Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
D'Vorah doesn't really get a free 50/50 in the corner if u have meter. If she does the 50/50 immediately you can wake up out of it. Then if she starts blocking your wakeup and delaying her 50/50, you can short delay and armor in between.

I think 50/50s are fine but they should have some sort of drawback. Right now the top tier characters have a combination of 50/50s that are safe/plus on block, launch, don't require meter, are unreactable or can't be fuzzied, and are easy to set up with little to no drawbacks. Hellfire Scorpion's a good example of a character whose 50/50s are done right imo.



Idk y I was brought up, my DS was free lol
The meaty puddle covers the wakeups window by which time she goes into f112. From her f112 she gets the mixup of run cancel into jail, run cancel into 50/50, run cancel into grab, run cancel into block; waking up will do no good.
 

ryublaze

Noob
The meaty puddle covers the wakeups window by which time she goes into f112. From her f112 she gets the mixup of run cancel into jail, run cancel into 50/50, run cancel into grab, run cancel into block; waking up will do no good.
Can you not short delay then armor before the f1 comes out? (assuming she blocks and delays her f1 in case you wake up)
 

Israel

Apprentice
So you want somebody to get punished for doing a low when there is almost no overheads with how you described that.
Hm..ur right, that doesnt add up really. I guess give the overheads the option to be done but they will be punished if blocked correctly. You see what we just did there? I offered a suggestion..u came with a correction, and now we have ideas. <------- THIS is what THEY need to be doing in their own little circle. They should consider it... use the players to help modify the game.
 

Israel

Apprentice
I half agree. I feel like the low or mid launching string should be safe. And the other mixup i.e the overhead or vice versa should at least be -7. That way there would be an obvious way to block, but if they go for the other option, they get punished or lose their turn.
Yea sounds better..
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Can you not short delay then armor before the f1 comes out? (assuming she blocks and delays her f1 in case you wake up)
No. If you short delay you give up the chance to wakeup with armour. If you short delay period, you still get hit by puddle because the active hit box is so friggen long.
 

Wigy

There it is...
50/50's that lead to big damage either way would be somewhat ok if everyone had one. I play kitana and she only has her B2 that's an overhead but it doesn't armor break and it doesn't lead to a combo.

Unrelated but I'm salty about how some characters have trash d2's that don't hit behind them like mileena, jax, kang, and Johnny cage do; and also how some characters have godly crossover punches like sub zero whereas other characters have to time their punches very very carefully in order to have them hit the opponent when jumping over them.
Never ever happend for me ever and i'm a day one main. JC's uppercut is not good at all.
 

24K

Mortal
I don't see the logic in wanting to change a game to suit the players who don't want to get to that tournament level. As that would balls the game up for the people who do. If you want to play, play it the way it is. Its great that KL spin wont get all jump ins. It adds more to the game, as you would need to be aware of that. If you had the perfect anti air people would never jump in. And that's a huge portion of the game gone. And people would moan they can't jump in. Yes you can "guess" wrong in a 50/50. So what. Get over yourself and just play another match. If every attack had a perfect counter. And every blocked attack was punishable. Then the game would be so undynamic that nobody would want to play it anyway. Look what happened with SF4. SFV came out and the first thing people bitched about was that it was to easy compared to 4. People just like to bitch. MKX has many issues that do need to be sorted out. And I will be there shouting no to safe 50/50s. But I see nothing wrong with the Anti air system. And I see nothing wrong with big combos. It makes it more fun to watch. You might die quicker. But that just means you can load up another round. SF is so boring to watch because there is no flash to it. Be stoked with the game and play more. Then get better. And find other issues to bitch about. OR just play Dive Kick.
 

MK_Al

Apprentice
movement in MKX is slower with some characters, there is also a select few characters who are wonky enough when doing an air attack that it can even stuff moves such as KL spin which shouldn't happen, add that with long range reaching normals and fast run speeds and you have what people are complaining about mostly.
Last time I checked there seemed to be no hitbox on the top of KLs hat when spinning, so every jump in should be able to stuff it :(
 

Roko1985

Put down the controller and run!
It's +22 because if you get hit by it you kinda deserve it... It can be jumped out of. Yeah, it can be set up so it provides pressure but that's the whole gameplan for her isn't it? And 40% meterless?? That I wanna see.

Yeah, I agree with you that this game is way too heavily based around 50/50s but D'vorah ain't even close of being the biggest offender in that kategory.
She is a bit too much plus on some cancels! The puddle is fair. You can react and armor or jump to punish. The corner setup is her gameplan so its fine.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
I don't see the logic in wanting to change a game to suit the players who don't want to get to that tournament level. As that would balls the game up for the people who do. If you want to play, play it the way it is. Its great that KL spin wont get all jump ins. It adds more to the game, as you would need to be aware of that. If you had the perfect anti air people would never jump in. And that's a huge portion of the game gone. And people would moan they can't jump in. Yes you can "guess" wrong in a 50/50. So what. Get over yourself and just play another match. If every attack had a perfect counter. And every blocked attack was punishable. Then the game would be so undynamic that nobody would want to play it anyway. Look what happened with SF4. SFV came out and the first thing people bitched about was that it was to easy compared to 4. People just like to bitch. MKX has many issues that do need to be sorted out. And I will be there shouting no to safe 50/50s. But I see nothing wrong with the Anti air system. And I see nothing wrong with big combos. It makes it more fun to watch. You might die quicker. But that just means you can load up another round. SF is so boring to watch because there is no flash to it. Be stoked with the game and play more. Then get better. And find other issues to bitch about. OR just play Dive Kick.
I seriously hope you're trolling lmfao

Ok first of all, no this game is not suited for tournament level players. This game is suited for casual randoms to destroy everyone because they took the time to learn a combo off a low and an overhead and a broken jump in (cough Sonya cough) and make people guess wrong and think they're godlike, which is stupid and rewards nothing for good effort of learning the game.

Sure we can say ggs and play another match, but this game is a game that thousands of dollars has been bet on. Thousands of money lost and spent cause "oops I blocked low but it don't matter cause that would have been safe anyways my fault I won't make top 8 at EVO"

Nobody said every attack should be countered or punishable, I dont think you understood the point of this thread.

Anti airs should be consistent all the time like SFV. There should be a risk reward and no guaranteed jump ins. Even I'm laughing as I'm writing this because people think it's fair. It's fair to hold a mixup and die off of a half screen guaranteed ranged jump you can't do shit about?

It doesn't make the game boring. If AA were good it is hype when they are executed. With less braindead mixups that lead to stupid damage, more smart play comes up. Besides the broken part, mk9 had smart play. If you want smart play thats not boring as you say, watch Evo 2015 finals, kitana vs Lao. Awesome set.

And finally get better? Get better? At what? Guessing? Blocking more jump ins and plus frames I can't do anything about? Are you stupid? I couldn't get better at my set vs illusions. I died because I guessed wrong, so no there's no "getting better" at mixups.
 

Meep8345

Apprentice
Hm..ur right, that doesnt add up really. I guess give the overheads the option to be done but they will be punished if blocked correctly. You see what we just did there? I offered a suggestion..u came with a correction, and now we have ideas. <------- THIS is what THEY need to be doing in their own little circle. They should consider it... use the players to help modify the game.
If they actually used the players that know what they are talking about help modify it shit like alien's dumbass wouldn't exist. Same with demo,All varaitions of takeda,etc. they wouldn't have the broken BS they have.
 

Skylight1

Warrior
It's +22 because if you get hit by it you kinda deserve it... It can be jumped out of. Yeah, it can be set up so it provides pressure but that's the whole gameplan for her isn't it? And 40% meterless?? That I wanna see.

Yeah, I agree with you that this game is way too heavily based around 50/50s but D'vorah ain't even close of being the biggest offender in that kategory.
"Kategory....." I see what you did there......




"Donald Trump face.gif" :DOGE wall.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
I just labbed it and what I found is that if D'Vorah does puddle too early it'll whiff on short delay, giving the opponent the option to short delay then armor. If she delays the puddle and times it so that it hits meaty and also covers short delay, she'll get hit by wakeups that are 13 frames or faster (that's if I'm timing it right). So it's only a true vortex on characters with 14 frame or slower armor, which isn't a lot. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're not wrong, but you're using the wrong setup.

There are 3 setups that D'Vorah players tend to use. The first works against only slower wakeups (it's b12 into the splat). You can wakeup with armour that is 13 frames or faster.

The second is 212~puddle as ender. This works against almost everyone but a short delay tech roll lets you wakeup. This is very hard to time though.

The last is b21~puddle. This does the least damage but creates an oki situation that can't be avoided.

Generally the D'Vorah player will test how you deal with each situation so they can optimise their damage and setup potential.
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
I just labbed it and what I found is that if D'Vorah does puddle too early it'll whiff on short delay, giving the opponent the option to short delay then armor. If she delays the puddle and times it so that it hits meaty and also covers short delay, she'll get hit by wakeups that are 13 frames or faster (that's if I'm timing it right). So it's only a true vortex on characters with 14 frame or slower armor, which isn't a lot. Correct me if I'm wrong.
This times a million.
Force a read for read situation with short delay wake up.
212 knockdown can be mitigated using short delay, can still catch you with buttons, but short delay avoids the puddle. If they are blocking in anticipation of a wake up, your short delay provides just enough time to jump out. If she reads this or just does buttons with no gap you will get wrecked. But no gap buttons loses to wake up armour, so its legit a read for read situation. Unless she plays super defensive and just does a d1 after your short delay to catch the jump out. She cannot confirm short delay wake up and punish in time.

B21 the same situations applies im pretty sure. Could change based on the height that the b21 hits.

youtube.com/watch?v=nojGuWf3uE8

Video i made a while ago demonstrating some tech roll ideas to avoid the 212 set up. This is the ideal scenario cos it reduces her plus the most. She is still plus though.
Loses to the b21 set up though.
 
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Even Batman has better zoning tools then Supes
Everything else you said in this post I agreed with till this. They're about even. Straight lasers guarantee you a dash in AND f23 (breath//no breath into post breath options), overhead lasers come in handy, and for characters with shitty hurtboxes like grundawg and lex, the supes zoning is brutal.