General/Other Ares Buffs thread - Balanced & Practical Changes

[WaywardStranger]

Whoa, what the fuck is your problem

Unnecessary trolling.

Edit: and I'm grumpy this morning

 

[DuskAlloy]

Unnecessary trolling.

No I wasnt trolling, nowhere in what I posted was trying to get an angry response out of anyone, it was a joke... If I had said that he needs to be nerfed because he has a teleport or some bullshit then I would of been trolling

 

[WaywardStranger]

No I wasnt trolling, nowhere in what I posted was trying to get an angry response out of anyone, it was a joke... If I had said that he needs to be nerfed because he has a teleport or some bullshit then I would of been trolling

Well, forgive me.

Regardless, if I were a mod the last 4-5 threads would be removed from the database. 'Tis a waste of space.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Well, forgive me.

Regardless, if I were a mod the last 4-5 threads would be removed from the database. 'Tis a waste of space.

It's fine, I just thought that most people know that I mess around in other character's forums for laughs, and I agree about the last few threads being gone, the only one I thought had good info was the Zoning is dead one

 

[The Gabriel]

Okay. Here's what I mean when I say fix up his corner game...

colt

P.S...sorry for the video quality...this is the best I can do.

I've actually had b1d4 whiff midscreen! I do a lot of b13, so sometimes I mix it up with b1d4 since they aren't conditioned to block that second hit low...but the sword came out behind them after the block b1 and we weren't even in the corner

 

[Xenrail]

Teleport - This is my most radical suggestion and could be a substitute to Ares terrible backdash. As is, the "forward" teleport is basically useless, so what about changing it to a defensive teleport, ie you teleport backwards from your position, away from the opponent. This would be more in line with him being a slow character with a bunch of tricks, versus giving him a faster back dash.

as a non Ares player, i would only agree with the last point. Shazam has a back teleport so why shouldn't Ares?

the most recent buff to ares in 1.04 gives his teleport startup invincibility even if it's not a wakeup. That's already borderline too good vs rushdown.

the first start to helping ares would be to changing his invisibility cloak to another MB alternative. it's pretty useless afaik.

 

[Hellbringer]

as a non Ares player, i would only agree with the last point. Shazam has a back teleport so why shouldn't Ares?

the most recent buff to ares in 1.04 gives his teleport startup invincibility even if it's not a wakeup. That's already borderline too good vs rushdown.

the first start to helping ares would be to changing his invisibility cloak to another MB alternative. it's pretty useless afaik.

His invisibility isnt usefull at all its a big part of his game...
I think the teleport is fine. Making it so you can get fullscreen is ridickilous. Free out of pressure and free meter build all the time. Besides it already got a buff.

edit:and free wakeup

 

[Xenrail]

His invisibility isnt usefull at all its a big part of his game...
I think the teleport is fine. Making it so you can get fullscreen is ridickiloud. Free out of pressure and free meter build all the time. Besides it already got a buff.

oh yeah that's right. i forgot shazam doesn't have a fullscreen teleport. anyways invisibility does seem useless. both players know where you stand as long as you have a great hippocampus

 

[Hellbringer]

oh yeah that's right. i forgot shazam doesn't have a fullscreen teleport. anyways invisibility does seem useless. both players know where you stand as long as you have a great hippocampus

You use his invisibilty to camoflage what you are gonna do, make it harder to read if you do a low starter or overhead starter, and makes it harder to react on teleports. I do know that when im invisible, im make people do stupid things.

 

[Xenrail]

You use his invisibilty to camoflage what you are gonna do, make it harder to read if you do a low starter or overhead starter, and makes it harder to react on teleports. I do know that when im invisible, im make people do stupid things.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh mannnn. that does make sense. pretty interesting. there are telltale signs of his teleport so you can definitely recognize that but a mixup game with invisibility is pretty cool. i haven't seen an ares do that online in the 2k games i've played lol

 

[4x4lo8o]

the most recent buff to ares in 1.04 gives his teleport startup invincibility even if it's not a wakeup. That's already borderline too good vs rushdown.

Woah, I haven't heard that one. Where'd you see that?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Woah, I haven't heard that one. Where'd you see that?

That was actually 1.03 where the teleports have better invincibility (Ares, Shazam, Raven).

 

[The Gabriel]

the most recent buff to ares in 1.04 gives his teleport startup invincibility even if it's not a wakeup. That's already borderline too good vs rushdown.

That was actually 1.03 where the teleports have better invincibility (Ares, Shazam, Raven).

What are you guys talking about? The patch was 1.03 and it gave his teleport WAKEUP invincibility. That is it. Ares had NO wakeup attacks with invincibility, so NRS decided to "buff" them by giving his most useless wakeup, teleport, invincibility. All this means in the practical sense is he gets stuffed after the special instead of on start-up.

 

[haketh]

TP invul was not anything close to a wasted buff.

 

[The Gabriel]

TP invul was not anything close to a wasted buff.

I have explained multiple times why it is near useless, yet no one has explained why it isn't.

 

[WaywardStranger]

I have explained multiple times why it is near useless, yet no one has explained why it isn't.

Before the wake-up invis buff I was consistently getting smoked by meaty projectile-type attacks (e.g. Aquaman's ground trident, etc). Now I don't. Instead, my opponent gets smoked for trying.

 

[The Gabriel]

I see that, but with projectiles you can just wake up and block, then start your offense...they aren't a mix-up or vortex. Now Batman knocks you down then goes for j2 cross up combo, or trait j2 crossup combo, you're screwed buff or no buff.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I had the sword whiff off the screen in the corner with 3~d4. This really is getting to be a serious problem. Between all the inconsistent swords and how they tend to slip through you out of the corner while using the f23 string my corner game is just not as strong as I'd like it to be

Edit: yup, at http://www.twitch.tv/teamhazmat/b/415832679?t=4h18m05s
(ignore that uppercut immediately before hand , I was having some severe execution problems during that set)

Also some fun stuff here
http://www.twitch.tv/teamhazmat/b/415832679?t=4h8m30s
After he knocks me down with the TV and does f23 over me I wake up teleport behind then appear in front of him facing the wrong direction and get full combo'd. I think it happened 3 times during that set

4:31:45 was pretty awesome too. They should fix that

 

[InFlames]

I had the sword whiff off the screen in the corner with 3~d4. This really is getting to be a serious problem. Between all the inconsistent swords and how they tend to slip through you out of the corner while using the f23 string my corner game is just not as strong as I'd like it to be

Edit: yup, at http://www.twitch.tv/teamhazmat/b/415832679?t=4h18m05s
(ignore that uppercut immediately before hand , I was having some severe execution problems during that set)

Also some fun stuff here
http://www.twitch.tv/teamhazmat/b/415832679?t=4h8m30s
After he knocks me down with the TV and does f23 over me I wake up teleport behind then appear in front of him facing the wrong direction and get full combo'd. I think it happened 3 times during that set

4:31:45 was pretty awesome too. They should fix that

I hope they fix this for the next patch along with 2,2 being duck-able. Not being able to use his low Sword mix-up is a big problem.

 

[The Gabriel]

Talked more about this with top players tonight...Ares' lack of decent wakeup game is *crippling* to him as a character. How do you compete when your opponent *knows* they can jump in on you/set up vortexes after a knockdown every time? No other character has to deal with this. Even the worst wakeups attacks still present a 50/50.

Honestly it would all be solved by a defensive teleport. Shazam has one - why not Ares? The teleport would solve Ares' wakeup game and cover for his terrible backdash. I fail to see how it would be overpowered, as Ares is not a straight zoning character and gets outzoned by the majority of the projectile-wielding cast.

 

[Hellbringer]

If they would make his GS have more invisibilty frames on wakeup so you can actually get out of a corner, that would be nice. Yeah the sword in the corner is annoying, im not sure tough if its an easy to fix thing.

edit:altough when i think of it, free out of pressure wakeup everytime with GS is abit cheap lol

 

[4x4lo8o]

Talked more about this with top players tonight...Ares' lack of decent wakeup game is *crippling* to him as a character. How do you compete when your opponent *knows* they can jump in on you/set up vortexes after a knockdown every time? No other character has to deal with this. Even the worst wakeups attacks still present a 50/50.

Honestly it would all be solved by a defensive teleport. Shazam has one - why not Ares? The teleport would solve Ares' wakeup game and cover for his terrible backdash. I fail to see how it would be overpowered, as Ares is not a straight zoning character and gets outzoned by the majority of the projectile-wielding cast.

Have you thought about dropping the character?

I don't mean that to be snarky. I'm about at that point right now

 

[WaywardStranger]

Have you thought about dropping the character?

I don't mean that to be snarky. I'm about at that point right now

I'm at that point also--again.

In the last few days my opponents online have used Superman or Scorpion 75% of the time. It seems more often than not they don't actually main either char, but instead preemptively counter-pick after I select Ares.

Scrubs are no issue but equally matched opponents beat me damn near always, especially those who've embraced the "jump-all-motherfucking-day" strategy, which is, in fact, a non-scrubby--i.e. smart--tactic in IGAU. No joke, neutral jumping is 100% viable as a part of Scorpion's footsie game against opponents without reliable AA. Drives me crazy.

I broke a Dual Shock 3 last night. Its been more than ten years since I've broken anything on account of anger. This game makes me feel like a child; I have to consciously hold myself back from mumbling "not fair" on a regular basis. I'm thinking it regardless. Thankfully my backyard needs a lot of work, so I have plenty to do in the evenings other than IGAU.

Hopefully we will someday be able to buy an Ultimate edition or Arcade edition wherein notable balance flaws are addressed.

 

[The Gabriel]

Have you thought about dropping the character?

I don't mean that to be snarky. I'm about at that point right now

I have thought about it...

I started playing Injustice with the intent to really only master one character. I don't really have the time or skill to master multiple characters anymore which lead me to stay away from the latest KOF, Tekken Tag, etc. Ares fit all my (admittedly weird) criteria and I have had fun using him. It's just not in me to tier whore so if I switched it would be to like Lex or Raven who I've messed around with (was trying Raven for the Superman match-up), but at the end of the day I feel like while I have a good grasp on Ares' deficiencies, I haven't unlocked his full potential yet or anything. I'm not saying he has a bunch of stuff we haven't discovered yet (I wish), but that I've yet to refine his gameplay and execute a high level game plan on a consistent basis (and at the end of the day I may not be a good enough FG player to do so).

So I think I can be a better Ares player than what I am right now...I'm just not sure that's enough though. I think I may try out Zod when he comes out...I assume he won't be as popular as Scorpion.

I'm at that point also--again.

In the last few days my opponents online have used Superman or Scorpion 75% of the time. It seems more often than not they don't actually main either char, but instead preemptively counter-pick after I select Ares.
...
I broke a Dual Shock 3 last night. Its been more than ten years since I've broken anything on account of anger. This game makes me feel like a child; I have to consciously hold myself back from mumbling "not fair" on a regular basis. I'm thinking it regardless. Thankfully my backyard needs a lot of work, so I have plenty to do in the evenings other than IGAU.

I feel your pain. The most-picked characters happen to be Ares worst MU's it seems.

Actually this crystalized for me at the tournament last night: I was fighting against Superman, it was the final match and we were both down to about half of our red life bar. We were in the neutral game, a distance between us as we began to walk towards eachother. I had 30 things going through my mind - 30 options of what to do with Ares, how to get the hit to land that last kill combo and take the set. In the split second I decided on b1d4. I knew he wouldn't block the mixup, and we were spaced right for b1 to connect. Unfortunately he had one thing going through his mind: f23. F23 stuffed the b1, he got the combo, I got a final wake-up chance, did the MB Godsmack, he f23'd again, which moved him forward enough for the godsmack to miss him by a pixel and he whiff punished for the win. Me: processing large number of choices at two critically decision-times. Him: f23.

 

[LaR]

Just found out that b1~d4 wiffs on Superman midscreen

Edit: It only wiffs midscreen if they let go of block after b1. In the corner b1~d4 on block and on hit will always wiff versus Superman, Wonder Woman, and Hawkgirl unless the b1 hits at max range.