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Match-up Discussion Doomsday Matchup Discussion

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I play black adam. I know under which conditions it AAs. It has 54 recovery frames on whiff. A well timed jump beats both the cage and a backdash. Doomsday in particular will force black adam to respect venom on wakeup when he has meter.

maybe you should pick up black adam and i doomsday so that you can see just how broken and op this character is.
I might will... Just to prove you my point.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I might will... Just to prove you my point.
Your point won't be proven by a week 1 match that DD might be losing. It'll just show you how to better deal with adam from someone who mains him using your character.

Or, you could just ask in the BA forums you know. Usually what I do whenever a character's BS is getting to me.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Your point won't be proven by a week 1 match that DD might be losing. It'll just show you how to better deal with adam from someone who mains him using your character.

Or, you could just ask in the BA forums you know. Usually what I do whenever a character's BS is getting to me.
If i try BA it will be a long time research, not just 1 week. Anyway lets not derail further this thread.
 

afrozilla86

Apprentice
Honestly while the matchup talks are fun, especially when getting the input from competitively competent individuals, at the end of the day the match is mostly dependent on the players. That being said, I go into the game pretending its street fighter 1 and the only difference is a pallet swap until the meta game is more strongly developed. Of course it helps to be a g.l main, I almost forgot what a bad matchup looks like, most of my losses are from letting the person win in a survivor lobby when I get ready to leave, and when I let roommates touch my profile to prove a point.
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
help with Nightwing please...

While in his staff mode his wake up staff spin in invincible, it's safe on block and builds tons of meter, that coupled with its hitbox makes it a good special to wake up with against a cross up body splash...

I find myself not knowing what to do in situations in which I KNOW the guy is going to wake up staff spin...
any helpful tips?
 

MastererBetty

Your Tears My Strength
My best answer is d1 after staff wake up, however with the wake up option select tech there could possibly be something else but for Doomsdays moves I'm not sure how well it would work out
 
Nice matches. 36:30 you dashed over the NW staff pound. Intentional? Looks like we finally have some new tech that involves the 'hop' aspect of DD's dash!
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Nice matches. 36:30 you dashed over the NW staff pound. Intentional? Looks like we finally have some new tech that involves the 'hop' aspect of DD's dash!
DD's dash has low crush properties. I have avoided low hits with it, but it requires veeeeeery strict timing. Against NW i was just messing around to see if i can avoid his projectile BS as well with it. From the looks of it, it worked.
 

MastererBetty

Your Tears My Strength
It seems that after EX staff projectile it is perfectly timed for Doomsday that if you dash forward you escape a follow staff projectile
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
couple questions about shazam!
What's the punish after blocking his flying torpedo looking move?

What are some good counters to Shazam's wake up teleport?
If you see in my match, more than once I tried to preemptively dash twice to try and catch the teleport but failed!
Right after shazam teleports, it seems like the smoke the he leaves behind still retains the hutbox...
It felt like he left behind a solid wall that kept me from dashing in!


http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/410094703
2:46:20
 

cyke_out

Warrior
I've been using a throw after each blocked Teleport. I'm sure there is something better, I'm not sure if it can be teched, or if it's a guaranteed throw.
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
adding to the questions I had earlier about Nightwing and Shazam, one last question about Aquaman and my apologies if this has been asked before.

What is one supposed to do against Aquaman's parry?
I find myself point blank against a parried aquaman doing his parry and not knowing how to counter it...

as far as saw, it's unthrowable and will absorb several hits
I was told that the only "counter" is to bait aquaman to meterburn or to DGAF with trait which seems great!
but I'm hoping for something a little more general.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
adding to the questions I had earlier about Nightwing and Shazam, one last question about Aquaman and my apologies if this has been asked before.

What is one supposed to do against Aquaman's parry?
I find myself point blank against a parried aquaman doing his parry and not knowing how to counter it...

as far as saw, it's unthrowable and will absorb several hits
I was told that the only "counter" is to bait aquaman to meterburn or to DGAF with trait which seems great!
but I'm hoping for something a little more general.
Aquaman has a parry? You mean his "breaker?" i.e. trait?
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
Hey guys, I posted this over at the Shazam forums to get some help but now I'm figuring that it would be just as good to see if one of you guys know or maybe could experiment this with me...

I'm having a problem fighting against Shazam and I'm looking for help; instead of typing everything I decided I'd take a shortcut and make a video, advice/tips would be appreciated.

 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
couple questions about shazam!
What's the punish after blocking his flying torpedo looking move?

What are some good counters to Shazam's wake up teleport?
If you see in my match, more than once I tried to preemptively dash twice to try and catch the teleport but failed!
Right after shazam teleports, it seems like the smoke the he leaves behind still retains the hutbox...
It felt like he left behind a solid wall that kept me from dashing in!


http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/410094703
2:46:20
Venom. If you read he is going to tp, use venom. It will hit him. Double dashing will get you full combo punished if you try anything after the dash. You need to be more aggressive against him. D3's stuff many wake ups if you time it right. Also after an AS, you have a guaranteed throw attempt. After that you can mix it up with B1, F2 or D3, if your opponent will expect a throw again. His torpedo can be punished with 123 venom, but it depends on the distance Shazam will land after the torpedo, so its not very consistent. Your best bet is to MB venom after you block it, to start pressuring him. DD can easily win against Shazam, if you know the MU.
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
Venom. If you read he is going to tp, use venom. It will hit him.
Double dashing will get you full combo punished if you try anything after the dash.

D3's stuff many wake ups if you time it right.

Also after an AS, you have a guaranteed throw attempt.
After that you can mix it up with B1, F2 or D3, if your opponent will expect a throw again.
did you watch the second video uploaded where I took shazam into training mode and showed the degree as to how safe the teleport is?
I don't think using venom preemptively is as strong of an answer and you made it sound in your most recent post.

as I demonstrated in the video.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
did you watch the second video uploaded where I took shazam into training mode and showed the degree as to how safe the teleport is?
I don't think using venom preemptively is as strong of an answer and you made it sound in your most recent post.

as I demonstrated in the video.
Just saw it. The reason i said it is because i was always able to punish it when i was playing against Hidan's Shazam. If you expect it, you can punish it and thats the point. I dont care if i have to use one bar to do it. I ll just get it back when i start pressuring. The invincibility frames and phantom hit box of the tp are a bit weird, although after a hard knock down it requires extreme timing to get the wake up done correctly, so it could be stuffed by DD easily. DD is all about hard knock downs. All in all i dont think this makes the particular MU harder though.
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
Just saw it. The reason I said it is because i was always able to punish it when i was playing against Hidan's Shazam. If you expect it, you can punish it and thats the point. I dont care if i have to use one bar to do it.
So A Well Timed Venom MB is the one and only answer to punish the teleport, as far as you know; (hoped you knew something I didn't :()
And it's ok because DD can gain the meter back once he starts pressuring...
Assuming of course the Shazam doesn't just wake up teleport again... In which case to punish DD would need to blow another bar to have a chance to punish...

Ah, I can see now.:confused:


Metzos said:
The invincibility frames and phantom hit box of the tp are a bit weird
There are a dozen different more direct adjectives I would have used in this case, I was hoping we'd agree on just how... weird, the properties on this teleport are.

Metzos said:
although after a hard knock down it requires extreme timing to get the wake up done correctly, so it could be stuffed by DD easily.
So you're saying... because it's "difficult" to do a special with reversal timing that it ... merits the teleport being how it is because the margin of error is wide enough on the shazam player...

Alright, relying on the opponent messing up an input to have a chance to punish the start up of the teleport and not having to preemptively Venom MB to punish...
there doesn't seem to be any problem with this picture to anybody??????

Metzos said:
DD is all about hard knock downs. All in all i don't think this makes the particular MU harder though.
DD is all about getting knock downs and applying pressure to people... so a character going from having virtually no wake up to having an invincible wake up that lets them run away, that costs no meter mind you! and the only guaranteed counter is a prop0erly timed preemptive meter burn tackle... (cause remember from the video, the preemptive meter burned venom was blocked a couple times, the timing isn't very easy!)

but this change hasn't effected the match.... that much.:confused:
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
So A Well Timed Venom MB is the one and only answer to punish the teleport, as far as you know; (hoped you knew something I didn't :()
And it's ok because DD can gain the meter back once he starts pressuring...
Assuming of course the Shazam doesn't just wake up teleport again... In which case to punish DD would need to blow another bar to have a chance to punish...

Ah, I can see now.:confused:



There are a dozen different more direct adjectives I would have used in this case, I was hoping we'd agree on just how... weird, the properties on this teleport are.


So you're saying... because it's "difficult" to do a special with reversal timing that it ... merits the teleport being how it is because the margin of error is wide enough on the shazam player...

Alright, relying on the opponent messing up an input to have a chance to punish the start up of the teleport and not having to preemptively Venom MB to punish...
there doesn't seem to be any problem with this picture to anybody??????



DD is all about getting knock downs and applying pressure to people... so a character going from having virtually no wake up to having an invincible wake up that lets them run away, that costs no meter mind you! and the only guaranteed counter is a properly timed preemptive meter burn tackle... (cause remember from the video, the preemptive meter burned venom was blocked a couple times, the timing isn't very easy!)

but this change hasn't effected the match.... that much.:confused:
I never had any problems with meter management, especially against Shazam. So no, imo, it does not pose such a threat. Also i m starting to believe the reason you couldnt dash in after he did the tp was because you were doing to too early, perhaps, and the invincibility frames had to do something as well. Have you tried doing it delayed ? Also after you hit him with MB venom you can dash in and d3. It will most probably stuff his tp most of the time. Just because they buffed his tp doesnt mean that he can run away freely from DD.
 
Played this match up a few times. I don't think that Venom is a good punish against teleport at all- a good shazam will switch between forward and backward teleport and venom will completely whiff against a forward teleport. The only way to get a stable oki game going is to corner him, then camp at a half character space away, allowing d1 to beat all his wake ups.
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
hey guys

Some of you have noticed that I'm currently working on a project for Doomsday.
I'm working on flushing out all the specials in the game and figuring out what is and is not punishable against regular AND traited Doomsday!
Tonight was the first night I spent really going deep with a few characters and to my pleasant surprise there were a couple really interesting gems amongst the data collected tonight and I think that some of these are so good that I'd like to share them here with everybody!

And this only the first night, over time once the thread gains a great amount of information I hope to take it and merge it with the match-up thread as to create and alpha and omega epicenter of information regarding match-ups where everyone can have complete access to stuff like this; but anyway here are some punishes that I thought were pretty cool ;)

  • Joker
Crowbar: Bad on block, DD can punish with f2 3 xx venom and it's pretty easy to time as well

  • Killerfrost
The counter: although it counters mid and counter's venom, it will still curiously lose to
Air Venom,
Supernova (The first hit, the one that ISN'T unblockable),
Earthshaker (The first hit which is overhead)
Odd I know but hey... :)


On block; Iceberg is punishable by venom from MAX venom distance!

  • Deathstroke (thanks to the recent patch)
Sword flip is punishable with standing 3 (not new, but I thought I'd remind players)
High Gun; Punishable from roughly 75-80% venom range
Low + Rifle: Punishable from 85-90% venom range


  • Black Adam
Black magic: Punishable by venom from nearly max distance


  • Sinestro
Fireball: Venom punishable from 60-70% distance
Overhead meteor & Shackles are both venom punishable from MAX distance
Scorpion scoop is punishable by d1 on block



short list I Know but still pretty cool right?
If you guys liked what information is here, then keep an eye out for the thread titled, "Safe/Unsafe against Traited Doomsday" for it will be continuously updated in the following weeks to come!