Match-up Discussion Doomsday Matchup Discussion

[FrothyOmen]

A lot of that is known and is a big part of how matchups pan out lol. I thought you were looking at how to punish strings if you don't block them while having trait up? Since doomsday's recovery is linear across all hits you should be able to blow up some things on block you normally couldn't...

 

[Metzos]

Played this match up a few times. I don't think that Venom is a good punish against teleport at all- a good shazam will switch between forward and backward teleport and venom will completely whiff against a forward teleport. The only way to get a stable oki game going is to corner him, then camp at a half character space away, allowing d1 to beat all his wake ups.

I dont know man, i could punish it all the time with MB venom. Its about reaction not prediction tbh with you. It just requires good timing thats all.

 

[HungryforPasta]

I thought you were looking at how to punish strings if you don't block them while having trait up?

right
That is what the the other thread is about.
It's going to cover what can be punished on block from regular doomsday
and what's punishable on hit from Traited Doomsday.


There are some trait specific punishes, alot of them.
they're posted over at the over thread.
the punishes I posted earlier are more general and I think important to some of those matches.
They were new to me so I figured that other players might not have known either.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

Please guys I need help. I have a mini online tournament tonight and I need some tips against Nightwing,Shazam and Green Latern. I havent seen this MU in this thread yet.
Thanks a lot

 

[KillerOfBunnies]

Just consistantly had my arse handed to me by a Flash player. The only tactic I could find after all my attempts (that just had to kill my ranking) was to very politely ask him to stop pummeling me.

I just couldn't get anything off quick enough. I could only respond to his mistakes which were few and far between. I even got desperate enough to try his joke of a trait.

Any ideas? Experiences? I've already hunted 'round the 'net (which I don't like doing).

 

[GoodLifeGodLike]

Any ideas for Scorpion? Seems like he has trouble keeping up with the speed.

 

[MastererBetty]

I have some experience in the Scorpion match up with someone that plays him really well here and there some things I've noticed about the character

Overall you gotta block low against this character since it stops pretty much every setup he's got and it's very easy to react to his overheads I think the fastest one is 22f startup. Other than that you gotta play patient getting in by dashing forward and holding down then being aware that you are in j.3 range to block accordingly

j.3 Crossup xx Teleport:
Since Doomsday's hit box is so large j.3 xx teleport is braindead tactic against the character What I have found is to properly block the crossup and hold down to block the subsequent teleport.
A blocked teleport can be punished by 23d1 xx Venom for 19% dmg or 3 xx Air Snatch to reverse sides for 16% dmg(Very Important to do this if you block a teleport on scorpion corner wake up)

Scorpion Wake Up Attacks:
Flash Kick:
Scorpions flash kick is a fantastic wakeup attack but can be beat from certain hard knockdown setups, it beats all early jump ins clean.
Also there is a way to make it flip sides while you have him in the corner. After a d1 xx ES you dash forward and hold down, if Scorpion attempts a wakeup flash kick it will reverse sides leading to full combo damage. VERY IMPORTANT OKI

Teleport:
A neutral body splash works wonders on this since scorpion teleports directly under Doomsday and thus leading to full combo.
Also if Scorpion tries to teleport out of the corner a MB Venom will hit him as he is coming back the reason for this is that apparently the hitbox on MB extends far behind him as well

 

[HungryforPasta]

Karried

Please update this thread
there is a lot of information over the course of the 4 pages and players are beginning to ask the same questions more than once

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Green lanter is only hard if you play the game in THE MAX jeje I think if you put THE MAX green lantern he will beat evo , but u use trait up close after a knock down hes wakeups are useless and fully punishables.

 

[Vintagesoul]

Just spent a good amount of time labbing this match up with our top Scorpion player. IMO:

Without Scorpion's j1, the match up would be 6:4 in Doomsday's favour.

Because of the j1, the match up is at best 4:6 in Scorpion's favour. Possibly, worse.

Doomsday cannot properly anti-air the j1, and the j1 beats splash, leading to a juggle combo. You can punish a blocked early j1 with d1, Es once he lands, but if he cancels the j1 into MB teleport, you'll be the one getting hit and comboed instead.

This means that anytime you're within j1 range, Doomsday can't effectively anti-air and can't attack with jd+3 without running the risk of running into a j1. IMO, Doomsday must try to play this match at a very specific range- just outside j1 range. From here, you can look for spots to dash forward d1 or shoulder dash in and can defend against most of the stuff by holding d. At any other distance, Scorpion has a clear advantage in the match up.

 

[Metzos]

Just spent a good amount of time labbing this match up with our top Scorpion player. IMO:

Without Scorpion's j1, the match up would be 6:4 in Doomsday's favour.

Because of the j1, the match up is at best 4:6 in Scorpion's favour. Possibly, worse.

Doomsday cannot properly anti-air the j1, and the j1 beats splash, leading to a juggle combo. You can punish a blocked early j1 with d1, Es once he lands, but if he cancels the j1 into MB teleport, you'll be the one getting hit and comboed instead.

This means that anytime you're within j1 range, Doomsday can't effectively anti-air and can't attack with jd+3 without running the risk of running into a j1. IMO, Doomsday must try to play this match at a very specific range- just outside j1 range. From here, you can look for spots to dash forward d1 or shoulder dash in and can defend against most of the stuff by holding d. At any other distance, Scorpion has a clear advantage in the match up.

AS can beat j1. Imo Scorpion - DD is 6 - 4 in DD's favor. Plus you really dont need to jump at all against Scorpion, except after a hard knock down, just capitalize from his mistakes. DD's trait helps him A LOT in this MU. Also a well timed d2 can trade with Scorpion's j1 in DD's favor. Also have you tried DD's j1 ? Its a very good air to air option, same as his j2.

 

[MastererBetty]

A really funny thing to see vs Scorpion is that in the corner if Scorpion does his teleport the same time Doomsday does MB Venom, Scorpion will teleport into the MB Venom hit box.

I get a laugh everytime I see this

 

[Vintagesoul]

AS can beat j1. Imo Scorpion - DD is 6 - 4 in DD's favor. Plus you really dont need to jump at all against Scorpion, except after a hard knock down, just capitalize from his mistakes. DD's trait helps him A LOT in this MU. Also a well timed d2 can trade with Scorpion's j1 in DD's favor. Also have you tried DD's j1 ? Its a very good air to air option, same as his j2.

Scorpion can press j1 the moment he leaves the ground, at the very start of his jump, and the thing has so much active frames that it'll still connect against a crouching Doomsday.

'There's really no practical way to anti-air an instant j1, unless you have CPU like reactions. The hitbox on that thing is too huge.

You are right though... DD shouldn't be jumping forward too much in this match up. Forward dash and MB Venom should be DD's main approaches- they both will allow DD to approach while avoiding teleports.

 

[GoodLifeGodLike]

Uhm Bane and his BS armor?

 

[GoodLifeGodLike]

Can someone please tell how you fucking deal with BA? That fucking full screen low projectile, that dive kick....have no fucking clue why it's not fully punishable on block. Etc etc etc

 

[Vintagesoul]

Uhm Bane and his BS armor?

I can do a full rundown of this match up when I've got time (run quite a few sets against a really good Bane player).

Short answer is that you have to guess, but its a guess that's at worse 50/50 or maybe even in your favour.

When you're attacking Bane and you think he's going to do armoured double punch on wake up, just do vertical splash and get a full combo.

When you're defending against Bane and you think he's going to do an armoured double punch against your wake up, just block high. If you think he's going to do anything else, do wake up Supernova (all his low options are unarmoured because they're not special moves).

Managing your trait is vital in this match up- getting hit by Bane in Venom level 3 will disrupt your trait just like Superman's trait will. Safe way to play is to turn trait on the moment he is in cooldown and go ham.

 

[Metzos]

Anyone has any tips on how to face NW ? His pressure, zoning and mid screen options are ridiculous. Tbh with you guys i m pretty lost with the particular MU.

 

[MastererBetty]

NW is much more a threat when he is in Staff stance rather than Escrima. With Escrima you can j.2 to interrupt his air projectiles and hit for combo on the way down and pretty much go full rushdown oki while respecting his wakeups so at least you have a few workable options

In Staff stance is where shit gets crazy. He can just spam d.1 and alternate between overhead or low strings for combo they can be blocked, but requres good fuzzy guarding. What I think works here is MB Supernova since his mobility is terrible and MB Venom to put him on the defense

Honestly, NW Staff normals are good enough to force DD to use meter to get in or out.

 

[HungryforPasta]

In escrima mode NW does not have scary lows which he can combo from!
he has an overhead that combos into itself which continues into a big BnB, so block high against escrima

In staff mode
his 1 f1 string cancelled into ground blast is NOT A BLOCK STRING
you can d1 interupt and combo

MU is bad imo, difficult to pressure him on account of his Invincible and Safe reversals
any method to punish staff spin?

 

[RYX]

How do you feel about the Bane MU? I have it as 5-5 right now but I could see either character having the edge.

Doomsday gets in faster but his need for meter is matched by Bane's Venom(and his needs for it too). Bane's level three Venom negates Doomsday's trait pressure and his back dash is good for escaping his pressure too.

However Doomsday has better mobility and can become a huge problem if he catches Bane on his debuff. Seems like if Bane manages Venom/Doomsday manages meter better and can corner the other they'll win.

 

[MastererBetty]

Chiming in again on the NW matchup.

Reread patch notes and staff stance d1 is going to be +3 on block rather than +6 so at least there's that

 

[Metzos]

NW is much more a threat when he is in Staff stance rather than Escrima. With Escrima you can j.2 to interrupt his air projectiles and hit for combo on the way down and pretty much go full rushdown oki while respecting his wakeups so at least you have a few workable options

In Staff stance is where shit gets crazy. He can just spam d.1 and alternate between overhead or low strings for combo they can be blocked, but requres good fuzzy guarding. What I think works here is MB Supernova since his mobility is terrible and MB Venom to put him on the defense

Honestly, NW Staff normals are good enough to force DD to use meter to get in or out.

In escrima mode NW does not have scary lows which he can combo from!
he has an overhead that combos into itself which continues into a big BnB, so block high against escrima

In staff mode
his 1 f1 string cancelled into ground blast is NOT A BLOCK STRING
you can d1 interupt and combo

MU is bad imo, difficult to pressure him on account of his Invincible and Safe reversals
any method to punish staff spin?

Yeah i didnt have any problems with escrima mode, only staff mode. Staff mode is plain ridiculous. A NW player dqed me in my latest major tourney here in Greece. I went undefeated until the top 8 only to lose to spamming d1's and stupid full screen frame traps. NW's staff mode seriously needs to be addressed.

 

[Metzos]

Chiming in again on the NW matchup.

Reread patch notes and staff stance d1 is going to be +3 on block rather than +6 so at least there's that

Yeah i ve seen it. Its still bs tbh with you. Its not like he has problems counter-poking when in staff mode, but on top of that +f down pokes on block ? Rofl... Plus he can blow up down pokes easily in staff mode with uf1 and uf2 (i think those are the commands).

 

[MastererBetty]

I feel that Doomsday needs to capitalize his lack of mobility since there's really nothing else to exploit. Either MB Venom or MB Supernova. Also Push Blocking d1 spam seems like a good idea to use against this character. The biggest issue I have with d1 isn't the +frames it's that it does not push back on block like other strings do

It seems that all our options require meter to do anything with this character

 

[Metzos]

How do you feel about the Bane MU? I have it as 5-5 right now but I could see either character having the edge.

Doomsday gets in faster but his need for meter is matched by Bane's Venom(and his needs for it too). Bane's level three Venom negates Doomsday's trait pressure and his back dash is good for escaping his pressure too.

However Doomsday has better mobility and can become a huge problem if he catches Bane on his debuff. Seems like if Bane manages Venom/Doomsday manages meter better and can corner the other they'll win.

Yeah thats the way i see it as well. Hidan plays a seriously scary Bane right now and we have played a lot this MU. Imo its a 5 - 5 as well.