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Tech Stop thinking Shazam is bad

Mojo

Noob
I just found b3-j3-f1,2-tele foward puts shazam right on top of them
That isn't new and why the hell would you ever do that? b3, j3, sweep, dash puts you in the same position, does more damage and is a hard knockdown. While the opponent had the option of rolling out of the set up you mentioned. I'm also curios about what set up you were planning on going for after being on top off them because the ones I know of are not good.
 

DTritan

Noob
That isn't new and why the hell would you ever do that? b3, j3, sweep, dash puts you in the same position, does more damage and is a hard knockdown. While the opponent had the option of rolling out of the set up you mentioned. I'm also curios about what set up you were planning on going for after being on top off them because the ones I know of are not good.
The reason this is good, is because of corpse hopping and offensive pacing. After the teleport, if they do not tech roll the ground hit, you get a free corpse hop which messes with their wakeup inputs quite a bit. If they tech roll then you can chase the tech roll with a single dash > d3, 22, f3, HM, AC, or whatever oki you want. If you notice they have a habit of using wakeup on every single oppurtunity, then you can skip the single dash and bait the wakeup then b2 to get back in there. Or dash up neutral jump to stuff it. (Depends on the wakeup obviously.)

But most of all, the pacing of f22 teleport, or f223 teleport forces the opponent to choose something in the blink of an eye and it can be far more confusing to them than timing a wakeup attack off shazam's d3 knockdown. (same timing every time since it isn't techable.) The real meat and potatos of the teleport ender is mind games. :) Otherwise, you're more than welcome to mix in the d3 ender as well. Both are great and I try to vary them to keep opponents on their toes.
 

Mojo

Noob
The reason this is good, is because of corpse hopping and offensive pacing. After the teleport, if they do not tech roll the ground hit, you get a free corpse hop which messes with their wakeup inputs quite a bit. If they tech roll then you can chase the tech roll with a single dash > d3, 22, f3, HM, AC, or whatever oki you want. If you notice they have a habit of using wakeup on every single oppurtunity, then you can skip the single dash and bait the wakeup then b2 to get back in there. Or dash up neutral jump to stuff it. (Depends on the wakeup obviously.)

But most of all, the pacing of f22 teleport, or f223 teleport forces the opponent to choose something in the blink of an eye and it can be far more confusing to them than timing a wakeup attack off shazam's d3 knockdown. (same timing every time since it isn't techable.) The real meat and potatos of the teleport ender is mind games. :) Otherwise, you're more than welcome to mix in the d3 ender as well. Both are great and I try to vary them to keep opponents on their toes.
Thanks this should definitely help my game, but I can't help but get a Hakan vibe here. Everyone knew that character was bad from day 1 and when you had hope and new tech was found it turned out to be a bunch of gimmicks that would only work on a good player once.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
That isn't new and why the hell would you ever do that? b3, j3, sweep, dash puts you in the same position, does more damage and is a hard knockdown. While the opponent had the option of rolling out of the set up you mentioned. I'm also curios about what set up you were planning on going for after being on top off them because the ones I know of are not good.
That was one example of a combo that has him land on top of the opponent (I dont know others). The point is so that shazam is constantly on the opponent. This negates the whole "Its to hard to stay in" nonsense. And if they roll the can get caught the the herculan might, if they dont then do whatever.
 
Calling for buffs on a character in the first month is very short-sighted. I'm not calling anyone dumb, this is about perspective.

1. Meta-games take a long time to develop (Street Fighter 2).
2. Zoners are always the most powerful archetype at the beginning of a game (MvC3, UMvC3).
3. Damage isn't everything (Dhalsim, Doomsday, Lex).
4. Grapplers take even longer than most characters to develop (SSF4 T Hawk, Hakan).

zoners still rule umvc3
lex, doomday, Dhalisim have great tools to give good damage
and T hawk has frame grabs shazam does.
 
Hey, guys, I got a chance to play Tom in the Aquaman matchup a few weeks ago. Did okay game one. Felt like matchup knowledge, cleaner/simpler setups (instead of going for command grab setups after MB BF+2, which is obvious, I went for cross-up j.2, which turns out to be back dashable), less YOLO Atlas Torpedos and and getting hit by less overheads would go a long way.
when watching you can see how limited you were in that match up. out of both match you got one good combo for good damage and every touch tom got was about 30%. the grab doesn't always work so you have to throw out the torpedo in hope that you can catch them with a grab. but there not enough time in a match like that for the mind games you miss you get blown up.
 
I read this and Its ridiculous. Shazam is not a good, at least when compared to the rest of the cast he will always be in the bottom 5 maybe even 3. And when does need some buff. his projectile is the worst is the game (because of speed) his teleport are good but he is too vulnerable when using it. And his grab are decent. he needs a fine tuning. he truly only has 3 move his command grabs and atlas torpedo. his tool to get close are to limited. in the air his attack great aren't great and on the ground teleport or block and dash in. his attack range so short that if you use half his combo list if they are blocking you will push them out of range. He has tool that could make him good but too many negatives out way that good.
 
What he need is one of the following: 1. the ability to either torpedo in the air or teleport. 2. his trait to be unblockable(since thats what it was suppose to before the game came out.) 3 faster activation on most his move and trait.
He needs one of these not all.
 
I think Shazam has potential to be really good, if he could use trait in a combo which is guaranteed to deal damage like Superman. Right now though I think he's just underrated.
 

DTritan

Noob
What he need is one of the following: 1. the ability to either torpedo in the air or teleport. 2. his trait to be unblockable(since thats what it was suppose to before the game came out.) 3 faster activation on most his move and trait.
He needs one of these not all.

1. I don't think he NEEDs iether of these, but boy would it be extremely entertaining to have an air teleport. lol. What do you want this for though? To get around zoning or what? He seems to do alright getting around zoning with ground teleport already so not really sure what the intent of this is.

2. This is another mechanic that I actually like as it is. Right now you can already setup a 50/50 situation with trait active that results in them eating 70%+ damage with only one attempt at an escape. I rather enjoy that it's a setup and not a mindless tool that I can just start opening people up with. Black adams works a bit like this and I like his also.

Try using this setup off any j2 hit, including deep crossups. If you have 2 bars this sequence can get pushed to around 89% with only a single guess chance for your opponent. Not too shabby. :) The HM after F22 is not a cancel but it is an inescapable 27% reset into trait:
j2, f22, HM(mb), d2xxTrait, d3,

This is a pretty terrifying situation for the opponent now. This sets up for the following options after the d3, and you'll have trait active.:
A) dashforward, jump straight up, come down with j3 or j2. Depending on how long you delay iether of these button presses, they will hit on the left or right side. This also goes for the timing of that first dash forward after the d3. Play with it a little. :)
B) Unescapable HM if they aren't using wakeups like crazy. Although most people will, especially when they've seen what his trait damage can be.
C) Bait wakeup with a teleport and punish with a full trait combo.
D) Bait wakeup with other movement like jump back, jump neutral, etc etc. Depends on the matchup and wakeup you smell coming.

3. I'm not sure he needs faster trait activation either, but wouldn't dare say that I wouldn't appreciate it. Faster startup would definitely make the d3 link I posted above easier. lol. I thought I remember reading that b3, Trait, 1xxAC will connect? I haven't been able to do this myself yet but I got close enough that it looked like I was only slightly missing the timing.

I think for the most part his startup is fine on enough normal moves to get out of most situations that you would be button trading with anyway. Is there a specific example you can think of where you feel faster startup is warranted? Maybe we can figure out a better solution than buffing his normals directly. I usually counter poke with things like d1, d3, standing 2, reversal HM, and sometimes B2 if I'm just outside of their whiff range. Backdash and spacing whiffs are always a decent option as well.
 

BlackBryan

B*tch Distributor
I'm not sure why his trait doesn't activate the same as Scorpions. The damage scaling is outrageous if you continue the combo with Scorp, but if you vortex that shit up, its OP. Shazam needs it, Scorpion doesn't.

Whatchu smokin' nrs? That troll strain?




I want some.
 
I think for the most part his startup is fine on enough normal moves to get out of most situations that you would be button trading with anyway. Is there a specific example you can think of where you feel faster startup is warranted? Maybe we can figure out a better solution than buffing his normals directly. I usually counter poke with things like d1, d3, standing 2, reversal HM, and sometimes B2 if I'm just outside of their whiff range. Backdash and spacing whiffs are always a decent option as well.
The air teleport would be a fun tool to fun nothing else. his mix up suck. because it you guess wrong you are the one screwed over. the best thing i found to do is wait and block the wake up attack or com. grab. but actually getting in is the hard part there isnt much he can do but slow get close and the try the 50/50 if you fail you eat damage and try to get in again. My biggest problem is getting in close. his dash is not the great. and he can be hit out of the torpedo and the teleport. and since his trait doesnt activate during combo they can run from you until it runs out.
 

Uber

Mortal
All that he really needs is:

1) B2 needs to not jump over people. An overhead the whiffs on duckers is just bad design.

2) F223 should not whiff on duckers with the 3rd hit. It is a mid, it should work like one. This would allow some fun safe mixups between f22 and f223

3) Safer sweep. -8 would be good enough i think. As long as we dont get full combo punished with some distance.

4) Atlas torpedo should be safe at point blank range. A lo of characters already have issues punishing it. It would help if the top tier chatacters like aqua, supes, and GL couldnt punish it either. Im fine with naked half screen ATs getting punished.


Other things i would like, but i dont think are absolutely necessary:

1) Trait combos. Right now, its kinda hard to get much use out of your trait outside of the corner. Sure you can sacrifice damage for trait after HM, but whats the point. You give up guarenteed damage for more potential damage on a reset, but the sum of the 2 combos is only about 5% more for the trait reset.

2) Air Teleport or Air AT would be pretty awesome. This is not really necessary, but i dont really think it would break the character either.

3) Do something with his lightning bolt. Its useless against most of the cast. I think it would be cool if the made the MB recover instantly so he could run in behind it.

4) B23 should be safe or lead to some kind of combo. Maybe do more damage at the very least. I like its trajectory, but -9 for a string that does 9% damage is dumb.

5) Something should be done with b1. I just dont see where a 8 frame high with no range fits into his game
 

iShinnok03

Apprentice
1) 1 should hit mid.

2) Faster startup on AT.

3) 12b3, 12f3, b23 should be cancellable.

4) Trait should have less recovery.

5) Less startup and recovery on projectile, should be like Raven's. Enhanced projectile should be unblockable with that startup.
 

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
Im not a huge shazam player but i think if (like hawkgirls mace throw) you could angle his lightning bolt up whenever you wanted itd help him alot. That and make the second hit in f22 an overhead. Besides that i really like how billy plays
 
Question I just started playing again and everytime i do a combo with shazam the input doesnt come out online. a simple 1,1,2 will only do 1,1. after any jump attack a have to mash to get 2,2. and I cant even to his C.grabs anymore. any help?
 

SteveRod92

Stevezam!!! :P
Question I just started playing again and everytime i do a combo with shazam the input doesnt come out online. a simple 1,1,2 will only do 1,1. after any jump attack a have to mash to get 2,2. and I cant even to his C.grabs anymore. any help?
I have the same problem online also, a jump 2 crossover going into a 1,1,2 or f.2,2,3 is pretty hard online at times. On C.grabs I haven't had no problems with even in an really bad connection game. If you're playing a player who don't know what a wake up attack is C.grabs becomes the most enjoyable thing online.. haha