Tech Fighting against crouching chars with kung lao

[Flagg]

That's it? I'm sure CSZ could do this as well?

 

[Perfect Legend]

I've been doing "Bird Lao" nonsense since the day the game first came out. It still doesn't hit crouch.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

That's it? I'm sure CSZ could do this as well?

Nope. CSZ can't keep up unlike Lao.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

I've been doing "Bird Lao" nonsense since the day the game first came out. It still doesn't hit crouch.

PL will you win EVO again?

 

[coolwhip]

I've been doing "Bird Lao" nonsense since the day the game first came out. It still doesn't hit crouch.

I don't think the point of Bird Lao is to hit crouching opponents. It actually opens them up. It might get them to panic as your jumping all over the screen and you hit them in the air for a full combo, or they freeze and it opens up other options. It's really effective.

 

[Bildslash]

What if they're already crouching? The JK chip is gone, part of the threat is removed.

I've had opponents just crouching the whole time while throwing d4s that end up hitting me as I land or airborne. Worst part is, since you land within 21 range that means you are also withint their d4 range and can't do shit but block or step back; you can't whiff punish if they're crouching. F2 is not an option because you will either get hit by another d4 or they'll see it and block. Same goes for Spin, they can bait and punish afterwards.

 

[coolwhip]

What if they're already crouching? The JK chip is gone, part of the threat is removed.

I've had opponents just crouching the whole time while throwing d4s that end up hitting me as I land or airborne. Worst part is, since you land within 21 range that means you are also withint their d4 range and can't do shit but block or step back; you can't whiff punish if they're crouching. F2 is not an option because you will either get hit by another d4 or they'll see it and block. Same goes for Spin, they can bait and punish afterwards.

If they're already crouching, the JK/DK over them opens other options. The concept of Bird Lao is still not fully understood or explored, but the main point is not simply to get a 2% chip. It's to control the air SAFELY (JK/DK pretty much beats everything, unless you're playing against someone with instant air projectiles then Bird Lao is useless), converting on a full combo if they jump, and if they stay crouching or standing, JK/DK'ing over them puts you at a perfect distance to dash in and pressure with 21 or better yet, 24 (the distancing really makes 24 effective). Sure you can say the opponent can just crouch and poke, but then you just pick up on their pattern and blow it up.

 

[Big Pampering]

What if they're already crouching? The JK chip is gone, part of the threat is removed.

I've had opponents just crouching the whole time while throwing d4s that end up hitting me as I land or airborne. Worst part is, since you land within 21 range that means you are also withint their d4 range and can't do shit but block or step back; you can't whiff punish if they're crouching. F2 is not an option because you will either get hit by another d4 or they'll see it and block. Same goes for Spin, they can bait and punish afterwards.

f2 outranges d4 and they cant block if they are pressing d4 the whole time. you can jumpkick d4's for full combo. its dangerous for them to whiff moves because they wont know when lao will land right next to them. \

 

[Bildslash]

If they're already crouching, the JK/DK over them opens other options. The concept of Bird Lao is still not fully understood or explored, but the main point is not simply to get a 2% chip. It's to control the air SAFELY (JK/DK pretty much beats everything, unless you're playing against someone with instant air projectiles then Bird Lao is useless), converting on a full combo if they jump, and if they stay crouching or standing, JK/DK'ing over them puts you at a perfect distance to dash in and pressure with 21 or better yet, 24 (the distancing really makes 24 effective). Sure you can say the opponent can just crouch and poke, but then you just pick up on their pattern and blow it up.

I know, but you didn't address the d4 problem (or d1 for Kitana). Like I said, just as you land within 21 or 24 range you land within their d4 range, getting hit as you land. F2 doesn't work at said range if they keep poking and Spin is risky because they can bait it.

 

[Bildslash]

f2 outranges d4 and they cant block if they are pressing d4 the whole time. you can jumpkick d4's for full combo. its dangerous for them to whiff moves because they wont know when lao will land right next to them. \

But I'm not talking about mashing d4s mindlessly. My opponent actually thwarted my approach attempts enough times to make me stop doing JKDK for a while.

 

[Flankster117]

What I do against those stupid low ducking noobs, is teleport overhead works great into ober 40%, divekick to land right in front of them and do one of three things, forward 2 overhead, grab, or 212121 or you can cancel into teleport low hat or overhead and if it connects into spin.

I also just play either kenshi or Raiden against low hitbox characters.

PL you have a way sick Kabal just stick to him and level up more, study reo's style and adapt

with those 2 you should never have a bad matchup

U may want to pick up kenshi as well, hes easy to learn

 

[Big Pampering]

But I'm not talking about mashing d4s mindlessly. My opponent actually thwarted my approach attempts enough times to make me stop doing JKDK for a while.

I dont understand, unless they are mashing d4 the moment you stop divekicking they cant react to all your options at the same time. what are they doing exactly that troubles you. remember d1's dont get them anywhere since it grants no relevant advantage 99% of the time and is only 2% damage they block your 21 its already 3% damage and chip grants you meter while a d1 on hit doesnt so you are still at advantage.

they cant anti air you with standing normals if they are crouching it is hard for them to anti air if you are in the air the whole time and sneak in a jumpin out of nowhere and even then you can mix them up with a jumpin teleport to punish their anti air attempt depending on the character and anti air move. they can anti air with d1 but that gets beat by jumpkick.

you need to either condition them to block or make the standup. if you have the lifelead and start throwing hats which they cant neutral crouch you can chip them for 2% each hat on block, if they start to counter zone you will have made them commit to doing a standing move which means they are not crouching anymore.

 

[Bildslash]

I dont understand, unless they are mashing d4 the moment you stop divekicking they cant react to all your options at the same time. what are they doing exactly that troubles you. remember d1's dont get them anywhere since it grants no relevant advantage 99% of the time and is only 2% damage they block your 21 its already 3% damage and chip grants you meter while a d1 on hit doesnt so you are still at advantage.

they cant anti air you with standing normals if they are crouching it is hard for them to anti air if you are in the air the whole time and sneak in a jumpin out of nowhere and even then you can mix them up with a jumpin teleport to punish their anti air attempt depending on the character and anti air move. they can anti air with d1 but that gets beat by jumpkick.

you need to either condition them to block or make the standup. if you have the lifelead and start throwing hats which they cant neutral crouch you can chip them for 2% each hat on block, if they start to counter zone you will have made them commit to doing a standing move which means they are not crouching anymore.

I'd like to know myself really. But I got AA'd 2-3 times by a d4 as I was landing; I might have been a bit out of 21 distance when I started JKDK. F2 worked somewhat, however at the distance required for it to beat their d4 it is hard to mix it up with a dash in 21/24. Against Kitana, even if d1 doesn't grant big advantage, it can get worse because of her range.

Mind you this was all online (since that's all I have). Having said that, this scenario puzzled me a bit. Moreover, in general I haven't had many opponents respect this strat enough to make it as effective as described. I'll keep working on it that's for sure.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I'd like to know myself really. But I got AA'd 2-3 times by a d4 as I was landing; I might have been a bit out of 21 distance when I started JKDK. F2 worked somewhat, however at the distance required for it to beat their d4 it is hard to mix it up with a dash in 21/24. Against Kitana, even if d1 doesn't grant big advantage, it can get worse because of her range.

Mind you this was all online (since that's all I have). Having said that, this scenario puzzled me a bit. Moreover, in general I haven't had many opponents respect this strat enough to make it as effective as described. I'll keep working on it that's for sure.

If your opponent is just doing D4s when you're entering the air -> JIP/F2/F3/close range JKDK/your own d4 before you jump/throws etc etc will work

Just do whatever you want lol.

 

[Perfect Legend]

You guys overestimate "bird lao". I've been doing this strategy since the game has been out and everyone else is just now talking about it. I already know the holes in it. Cage can accidentally auto correct a f3 and b3 you as you dive kick over his head. Its hilarious. Oh I would love to watch you "bird lao" vs Kitana or Cyrax.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

You guys overestimate "bird lao". I've been doing this strategy since the game has been out and everyone else is just now talking about it. I already know the holes in it. Cage can accidentally auto correct a f3 and b3 you as you dive kick over his head. Its hilarious. Oh I would love to watch you "bird lao" vs Kitana or Cyrax.

Cage cant auto correct a F3 into a B3 if you're doing it right, because he has to be standing, and if hes standing the JK will beat the AA attempt.
Kitanas option is legit, but more risk to her because of the recovery on her JK->Fan if you read that she's trying to counter it.
Cyraxs AA grab just doesnt work properly against the bird either.

Its not the same thing you've always been doing, its similar, but not the same.

The only legit answer is Kabals Ex ND on reaction.

 

[coolwhip]

That's it? I'm sure CSZ could do this as well?

CSZ has recovery on his dive kick on whiff, so it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do.

 

[Bildslash]

If your opponent is just doing D4s when you're entering the air -> JIP/F2/F3/close range JKDK/your own d4 before you jump/throws etc etc will work

Just do whatever you want lol.

I'll look into it. Thanks.

 

[Soul Bound X]

Actually Bird Lao works extremely well against Cage. In fact, if there's a match-up that's really affected by Bird Lao, it's the Cage match-up. In many ways, it's the best way to counter the problems Cage presents if you're Kung Lao.

ive been telling forever king this for foreevveerrr

 

[coolwhip]

Just ran some long sets of Kung Lao vs Sonya. It's still a tough match for Kung Lao, but Bird Lao actually made a difference. I'm starting to really warm up to the tactic. Though in fairness, like anything else in this game, we have to see it at the highest level to truly judge, and see what kind of counters players develop for it. Then we can really assess how good it is.

 

[Soul Bound X]

yeah, cages back 3 cant hit lao out of the air. not even his 7 frame uppercut can. he just has to catch up with him.

 

[Sultani]

So........ "Kung Lao sucks against crouching omg WTF he only has 6 options." That's essentially what's going on here?

Yeah.... LOL

 

[Seapeople]

Cage cant auto correct a F3 into a B3 if you're doing it right, because he has to be standing, and if hes standing the JK will beat the AA attempt.
Kitanas option is legit, but more risk to her because of the recovery on her JK->Fan if you read that she's trying to counter it.
Cyraxs AA grab just doesnt work properly against the bird either.

Its not the same thing you've always been doing, its similar, but not the same.

The only legit answer is Kabals Ex ND on reaction.

If Kabal can Ex ND on reaction shouldn't Cyrax be able to crouch block & AAt on reaction?

 

[Soul Bound X]

If Kabal can Ex ND on reaction shouldn't Cyrax be able to crouch block & AAt on reaction?

yeah i think cyrax's AA grab works against it

 

[Sultani]

Mileena can also just D4 roll it or just roll it depending on the spacing. Doesn't work against her either.

But still, what I've gathered here is "Kung Lao's 6 options for hitting a crouched opponent isn't enough - he should be able to hit confirm a crouching opponent safely with alot of priority and it should be extremely easy to recognize all the time and if he can't then Fuck you video makers."

Give me a f'ing break. Not every single thing in this game needs to be able to be countered with a full punish. I'll post a video of some badass KL tech against crouching later.