Match-up Discussion Oooooh Numbers

[TheTetraSpirit]

Theres still vulnerable frames during the cancel, even if your timing is off the only punishment you get is a dash punch.

Lightning has a godawful hitbox, so dashing forward and jumping is beyond more than enough to avoid it.
Also, damage is damage, and your "punish" doesn't work.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Jax can cancel gp into a jump which I believe is faster than you will ever be able to throw lightning on reaction. Then he can walk up, tea bag, and then punish cause of how bad lightning is on whiff. Jax doesn't even need to throw random gps in this match anyway. He can outzone with energy wave and wreck rains hitbox up close

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Lightning has a godawful hitbox, so dashing forward and jumping is beyond more than enough to avoid it.
Also, damage is damage, and your "punish" doesn't work.

The lightning definitely doesnt have a bad hitbox.
It catches jumps close to floor as it is.

Also, even if it did, it can still catch a dash from a vulnerable cancel like a GP.

 

[TheTetraSpirit]

The lightning definitely doesnt have a bad hitbox.
It catches jumps close to floor as it is.

Also, even if it did, it can still catch a dash from a vulnerable cancel like a GP.

Dude, I've had people WALK out of my Lightning.
Please give me some of yours if you think it has an acceptable hitbox.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Ok then, everything I've ever said about Rain is wrong, please continue on the informed discussion you had all been having about this character before I made this thread. Too much effort getting across some of the simplest ideas, I'll let you lot talk it out.

More posts about how 'his wakeups are bad' or 'his hitbox is too big' please.

 

[Derptile]

Ok then, everything I've ever said about Rain is wrong, please continue on the informed discussion you had all been having about this character before I made this thread. Too much effort getting across some of the simplest ideas, I'll let you lot talk it out.

More posts about how 'his wakeups are bad' or 'his hitbox is too big' please.

No worries, I still believe you.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Dude, I've had people WALK out of my Lightning.
Please give me some of yours if you think it has an acceptable hitbox.

Lightning in ridiculous. It has a 66 frame duration so you could literally blade charge to avoid it and then blade charge again before he can block.

Ok then, everything I've ever said about Rain is wrong, please continue on the informed discussion you had all been having about this character before I made this thread. Too much effort getting across some of the simplest ideas, I'll let you lot talk it out.

More posts about how 'his wakeups are bad' or 'his hitbox is too big' please.

Like 75% of the cast have a big hitbox. I have never understood this argument, you can still poke out of shit.

As far as his wakeups go, which are most effective? Only ones I could see are Aqua Splash(only -2 with pushback). Or RH if they are right next to you trying to pressure.

 

[Qwark28]

Don't quote me anymore dude. I don't like you, you don't like me. I'm fine with that. You don't need to flame me every time I post something. Btw, your sub and sheeva are free because I've played them before. You are now on my ignored list. Peace dude.

oh look, an online warrior talkng shit to a tourney player.

cool

 

[Mr Aquaman]

I normally agree with foxy. I just had to blow up jax. I ran this mu with tyrant and CD jr. The 2 best ran through the mu with Brady, soup, many others. Rain gets zones into an oblivion. Can be block infinited. rain Does better damage yes, but is guessing and defending most of this fight. And jax has the better armor if he needs it. I'll go into more detail when I'm at a computer.

 

[YOMI Reno_Racks]

You said he punishes GPs anywhere. Only thing that could do that is Lightning, which will get YOU punished if he cancels.

Actually Rain's D4 avoids ground pound very effectively. You have to practice it for a few minutes to get the timing right but once you learn it you can avoid ground pounds very consistently on reaction. The beautiful thing is that Rain's D4 not only avoids ground pounds but also his dash punch and projectile. You can't just throw it out mindlessly because a good player will bait it and whiff punish but if you have decent spacing and use it responsibly it really limits Jax's Footsies and zoning.

 

[Qwark28]

I normally agree with foxy. I just had to blow up jax. I ran this mu with tyrant and CD jr. The 2 best ran through the mu with Brady, soup, many others. Rain gets zones into an oblivion. Can be block infinited. rain Does better damage yes, but is guessing and defending most of this fight. And jax has the better armor if he needs it. I'll go into more detail when I'm at a computer.

armour leading to 40%+ is worse than armour leading to 12% and a change of sides?

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Meaning ex overhead beats ex rh. That's what better armor means

 

[YOMI Reno_Racks]

Meaning ex overhead beats ex rh. That's what better armor means

EX overhead smash does not exactly beat Ex RH. It works the same way all the other high priority armor moves(ex spirit charge, ex cartwheel, ex nut punch ect.) work. Who ever throws it out first loses. It's about when the invincibility frames end. Ex RH will even beat wake up Ex overhead smash as long as you input it just after Jax does.

There's been a lot of talk lately about how good or bad Rain is but one thing is certain, his armor is the best in the game. It's the most versatile by far and leads to some of the highest damage in MK. Us Rain players just need to ignore downplayers, communicate with each other, grind out match ups and keep trying to evolve our character. He definitely has his weaknesses but his armor is second to none.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

only 1 of rains moves has the best armor in the game that leads to all this damage, the rest of his armor is for show and 1 hit wonders, i dont down play my character, i just disagree that he beats jax overall. I believe kenshi has the best armor. Jax and rain around the same as far as usefulness, rains rh is also one of the most baitable moves in the game. just sayin

 

[trustinme]

only 1 of rains moves has the best armor in the game that leads to all this damage, the rest of his armor is for show and 1 hit wonders, i dont down play my character, i just disagree that he beats jax overall. I believe kenshi has the best armor. Jax and rain around the same as far as usefulness, rains rh is also one of the most baitable moves in the game. just sayin

bait it into what though? its safe on block,its not like raidens shitty ex shocker that you can get a full combo from baiting.thanks for everyone blowing my ex shocker up btw.

 

[Death]

EX overhead smash does not exactly beat Ex RH. It works the same way all the other high priority armor moves(ex spirit charge, ex cartwheel, ex nut punch ect.) work. Who ever throws it out first loses. It's about when the invincibility frames end. Ex RH will even beat wake up Ex overhead smash as long as you input it just after Jax does.

There's been a lot of talk lately about how good or bad Rain is but one thing is certain, his armor is the best in the game. It's the most versatile by far and leads to some of the highest damage in MK. Us Rain players just need to ignore downplayers, communicate with each other, grind out match ups and keep trying to evolve our character. He definitely has his weaknesses but his armor is second to none.

EX cartwheel actually has 2 hits of armor. It beats out every armor in the game including EX RH. The only armor to my knowledge that beats it is Kenshi EX Teleflurry which has like 10 hits of armor.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Which is why kenshi has the best armor. Rains rh is baitable as hell safe means nothing. A meter is wasted. Your down 1 bar that he needs to connect with.

 

[SaJa]

Rain is good shit against reptile, LBSH, 6-4 for Rain at least.

 

[trustinme]

Which is why kenshi has the best armor. Rains rh is baitable as hell safe means nothing. A meter is wasted. Your down 1 bar that he needs to connect with.

yeah but the point is he doesnt have to release the kick,he can armored dash and get a throw or go into rhc pressure.i hardly see it as a waste.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Rain is good shit against reptile, LBSH, 6-4 for Rain at least.

I think its 5-5 but some think its really in reptiles favor. If reptile could easily punish the tele then it would be 6-4 rep.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Since some of you wanted to know (and you all love numbers and lists and such), heres what I think for Rain at the moment:
I put question marks next to those I havent had enough experience against using Rain.


Freddy ???
Jade ???
Stryker ???

I can see Rain having a problem in this match, but its not flawed like a 7-3, i would say 6-4 Freddy, as Rain is basically on the ground during the entire of his fights, and Freddy will build meter like crazy and that meter he won't even need for any part of his game other than breaking rains combos when he finally catches him.

Jade is a 6-4 to Rain, as I know from fighting yours that I can get hit once, but I will have to punish you around 5-6 times a round, also, Jade needs the meter for pretty much everything.

Stryker...Who cares.

 

[UsedForGlue]

And I would like to maybe agree that Rain vs KL is 5-5, but really when Rain has no meter, the match sways back and forth to Kung Lao.

Rain can't stop KL up close without Meter, as D3 is a joke on standing block, and KL can even mash 21 after 1121...

I feel likes it's KL 6-4, but the constant damage from Rain is a bastard.

So lets make it a 5-5.

 

[YOMI Reno_Racks]

only 1 of rains moves has the best armor in the game that leads to all this damage, the rest of his armor is for show and 1 hit wonders, i dont down play my character, i just disagree that he beats jax overall. I believe kenshi has the best armor. Jax and rain around the same as far as usefulness, rains rh is also one of the most baitable moves in the game. just sayin

I never said I thought Rain beat Jax overall. I feel the mu is 5-5 but that's irrelevant. I was simply correcting your "Ex overhead beats Ex RH" comment. I was only talking about armor.

Also, Rain's "one special move" has armor that carries over into all of his other special moves. What makes Rain's armor superior is the fact that he can use it in so many different ways and get more damage from any position than any other character that has comparable armor. You say Kenshi's armor is better, well let's compare:

Full screen: EXRH into lighting does 27-39% damage meter less. Kenshi's Exteleflurry does 13%. Rain wins

3/4 screen: EXRH into lightning does 33% meter less or 24% with a bubble drop into more pressure. Kenshi can now use EXspirit charge for a whopping 12%. Rain wins

Jumping distance: Rain now has both of the options listed above plus an armored jump in punch for 50% meter less. Kenshi is still at 12%. Rain wins

Close range: Rain has all of the options listed above but now can do an armored cross up or dash for 50% meter less. Kenshi is still sittin at 12-13%. Rain wins

Corner: Finally an opportunity for Kenshi to get some damage off of his armor! Kenshi can now do 40% but Rain shits on him again with 55% meter less. Rain wins

Back against the corner: Rain reverses corner pressure while doing 43% meter less. Kenshi remains in the corner and still only does 12-13%. Rain wins.

Kenshi is hands down a stronger character. However when comparing armor there is no question Rain wins in every way.

 

[YOMI Reno_Racks]

EX cartwheel actually has 2 hits of armor. It beats out every armor in the game including EX RH. The only armor to my knowledge that beats it is Kenshi EX Teleflurry which has like 10 hits of armor.

Ex RH definitely beats EX cartwheel and EX teleflurry just as long as it's inputted after. EX cartwheel can beat EX RH if it's inputted after as well.

 

[CheapEddie]

Know your frame data, moves like F32NDC are +2 on block, B1 NDC is +1 B12 is +2. All these mean is that Kabal can be interupted with Rains 4 unless he does a standing 2 or a F4 everytime. Once you make them commit to doing F4s it means that they're leaving themselves either -5/have to commit to a 5050 or a dash.

Why do u always forget about that shit?

unblocking takes 1 frame to be able to move/attack.

Ur 4 becomes 11 frames, not 10 which means u cant be sure u ll blow him up if he tries to f3,2 u again.(After F3,2-NDC->F3 is 11 frames) Btw, Most Kabals just go for the d3 and with ur obsession of 4RH u just give them it for free.
Im not trying to say d3 is gdlk (u can bait it ffs) but Kab is simply faster than Rain.
And btw u forgot about throw after Kabal`s advantage string. Its hella good.