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A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
Why do u always forget about that shit?


Ur 4 becomes 11 frames, not 10 which means u cant be sure u ll blow him up if he tries to f3,2 u again.(After F3,2-NDC->F3 is 11 frames) Btw, Most Kabals just go for the d3 and with ur obsession of 4RH u just give them it for free.
Im not trying to say d3 is gdlk (u can bait it ffs) but Kab is simply faster than Rain.
And btw u forgot about throw after Kabal`s advantage string. Its hella good.
4RH crushes D3s, from characters with D3s that dont lower their hitbox.
The 1f unblocking thing cant be true, considering I use 3RH to interupt things like Cage pressure. If you've got p1 advantage your 3RH will beat his F3.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
Here is what I don't get.
RH cancel is supposed to be +2. SZ can ice clone and you'll DASH into it. So.... really... the RH cancel is negative.... making the following 4 MORE than 10 frames.
Characters that have a 9 frame or less starter will full combo punish you in this 50/50 ... which IS worth the risk. I honestly don't know how many characters have that ability... but RH pressure is only as good as your guess.
The frame data listed for the RH cancel includes the dash. How else are you canceling RH if not by dashing? You're not canceling then dashing, you're canceling by dashing. Rain is +2 after dashing in, which means his following 4 is 8 frames. Still he can be beat by a lot of low pokes that are either faster or make 4 whiff.
 
Ex RH definitely beats EX cartwheel and EX teleflurry just as long as it's inputted after. EX cartwheel can beat EX RH if it's inputted after as well.
all hyper armor is this way, if were getting into further detail lets look at ex rh vs jaxs armor. Rh is not only baitable but jump out full combo punishable, the whiff duration is terrible. Jax is fully safe, in all situations other than a crouching opponent with ex dash punch, and overhead. Someone playing rain will hardly block low, the highest damage rain can hit off a low is the 3 in b2, 3. Jax can kill you off 1 low or overhead. RH offers no more than Kabals Flash parry, and no more than sonyas cartwheel or any other ex launcher with armor in the game. Far better characters to say its the best. It is as abusable as kenshis furrys, shoulder charges, and karmas. Which are at advantage on block and he can full combo, covering the entire screen. RH leaves you in a neutral situation, if you parry, pressure, into neutral sitiuations. So until this character does well at majors, against the best, it's all hoccus poccus. And if he does, watch how fast hes downloaded. and this is coming from a guy who believes hes the best in the game and uses him 24/7.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
The frame data listed for the RH cancel includes the dash. How else are you canceling RH if not by dashing? You're not canceling then dashing, you're canceling by dashing. Rain is +2 after dashing in, which means his following 4 is 8 frames. Still he can be beat by a lot of low pokes that are either faster or make 4 whiff.
that can't be true
or he woudln't dash into a clone.
 

OZZYGUITAR

Back-dash Adam
i dont think rain beats scorpion 7-3, i feel like its 5-5, 6-4 at the worst, sure he has big damage but playing it safe is easily an option in this mu and he doesn't need to use meter for anything except breaker
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
that can't be true
or he woudln't dash into a clone.
I don't why would the Ice Clone work, but RH can only be canceled two ways: 1) you cancel into another special move, 2) you dash in or out.

There's no other way to cancel RH. When you hold 4 Rain just stands there "charging" the kick. In my opinion worst case could be that Rain spends those 2 frames of advantage dashing which leaves him at 0.

Let's have Somberness bring some light into the matter: Does the frame data for Rain's Super Kick minimum duration include the duration of his dash to cancel it or only up to the last frame of the charge?
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I don't why would the Ice Clone work, but RH can only be canceled two ways: 1) you cancel into another special move, 2) you dash in or out.

There's no other way to cancel RH. When you hold 4 Rain just stands there "charging" the kick. In my opinion worst case could be that Rain spends those 2 frames of advantage dashing which leaves him at 0.

Let's have Somberness bring some light into the matter: Does the frame data for Rain's Super Kick minimum duration include the duration of his dash to cancel it or only up to the last frame of the charge?
i agree
I was always at the assumption that the cancel advantage left him at +2.... so 4RH is +2.... then you dash out... those frames are extra. Or maybe ice clone is just a big fucking "who knows the properties" and leave it at that ;)
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
i agree
I was always at the assumption that the cancel advantage left him at +2.... so 4RH is +2.... then you dash out... those frames are extra. Or maybe ice clone is just a big fucking "who knows the properties" and leave it at that ;)
I'm pretty interested to know that myself, given I use Rain. I mean, if it turns out the dash "eats" the advantage then it will turn out I've been playing with a big misconception all this time.

On the other hand, the Ice Clone being a special case is also a possibility. This game has some funky (and messed up) properties that anything is possible.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
The only way this would happen is if the rain isnt canceling the RH at the quickest possible or hes not using an advantage string like 2, 4, 43, or d4. Most clone attempts will get broken cause of proximity.
i've never had a RH cancel into dash break my clone.... only if you let the RH go.
Now i'm most def. not afraid to say I'm wrong on this.... especially if its proven. I'm just going by my experience only.

Right now we are both going under different assumptions on how it works.... and that isn't good either way.
 

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
Premium Supporter
i've never had a RH cancel into dash break my clone.... only if you let the RH go.
Now i'm most def. not afraid to say I'm wrong on this.... especially if its proven. I'm just going by my experience only.

Right now we are both going under different assumptions on how it works.... and that isn't good either way.
I dont remember ever dashing into a clone while pressuring. Ill play some with you and reed soon and maybe we can test it for sure.
 

CheapEddie

I HAVE A FACE NOW!
4RH crushes D3s, from characters with D3s that dont lower their hitbox.
The 1f unblocking thing cant be true, considering I use 3RH to interupt things like Cage pressure. If you've got p1 advantage your 3RH will beat his F3.
Sry, i messed it up. I forgot that start up of move is (Execution-1f). Thats why we can actually spin out under Raiden`s, Sub`s etc strings with KL. :)
I started Rain about 2 weeks ago. Most the way connect doesnt let me to interrupt Cage with 3RH consistently. But i still have flash parry for him. Its just great. :)
About crushing D3s. I know Cage`s F3 has similar options of crushing high hitbox D3. But i think it works when ur opponent blocks ur d3 and attempts to counterpoke u with his d3. Something like that.
 

YOMI Reno_Racks

I have a dream...
all hyper armor is this way, if were getting into further detail lets look at ex rh vs jaxs armor. Rh is not only baitable but jump out full combo punishable, the whiff duration is terrible. Jax is fully safe, in all situations other than a crouching opponent with ex dash punch, and overhead. Someone playing rain will hardly block low, the highest damage rain can hit off a low is the 3 in b2, 3. Jax can kill you off 1 low or overhead. RH offers no more than Kabals Flash parry, and no more than sonyas cartwheel or any other ex launcher with armor in the game. Far better characters to say its the best. It is as abusable as kenshis furrys, shoulder charges, and karmas. Which are at advantage on block and he can full combo, covering the entire screen. RH leaves you in a neutral situation, if you parry, pressure, into neutral sitiuations. So until this character does well at majors, against the best, it's all hoccus poccus. And if he does, watch how fast hes downloaded. and this is coming from a guy who believes hes the best in the game and uses him 24/7.
You must of not read my post towards the top of this page comparing Rain's armor to Kenshi's armor. Please do since it was in response to your "Kenshi's armor is better than Rain's" comment.

You say Rain's RH offers no more than Kabal's Flash parry, Sonya's Cartwheel or any other EX launcher but your are very wrong pimp.

Rain's RH allows Rain to do armored cross ups , armored jip, punish projectiles from full screen with EXRH into lighting for 27-39% meter less.

His RH isn't mererly a launcher. It's a punishment tool from any distance on the screen that leads to big damage.

Can Kenshi, Sonya or Kabal parry projectiles like buzz saw, tele flurry, noob's shadow's from full screen with 27-39% meterless? Nope, only Rain.

Mastering armored jumping punches and armored crossups will help with the whiff punish vulnerability that EXRH and armored dash have. If you do an armored jip or crossup and your opponent jumps you will air to air combo him for 30% meter less. If he doesn't jump you have pressure or a combo.

I understand now why you feel Rain's armor is inferior. It's because you ain't using it right. Learn how to EXRH into lightning on reaction and come talk to me.
 

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
Premium Supporter
You must of not read my post towards the top of this page comparing Rain's armor to Kenshi's armor. Please do since it was in response to your "Kenshi's armor is better than Rain's" comment.

You say Rain's RH offers no more than Kabal's Flash parry, Sonya's Cartwheel or any other EX launcher but your are very wrong pimp.

Rain's RH allows Rain to do armored cross ups , armored jip, punish projectiles from full screen with EXRH into lighting for 27-39% meter less.

His RH isn't mererly a launcher. It's a punishment tool from any distance on the screen that leads to big damage.

Can Kenshi, Sonya or Kabal parry projectiles like buzz saw, tele flurry, noob's shadow's from full screen with 27-39% meterless? Nope, only Rain.

Mastering armored jumping punches and armored crossups will help with the whiff punish vulnerability that EXRH and armored dash have. If you do an armored jip or crossup and your opponent jumps you will air to air combo him for 30% meter less. If he doesn't jump you have pressure or a combo.

I understand now why you feel Rain's armor is inferior. It's because you ain't using it right. Learn how to EXRH into lightning on reaction and come talk to me.
Reno is right about some points but we really shouldnt try to delve into the whose armor is better arguments. Kenshis armor helps him in ways and Rains armor does things for him. Reno is absolutely correct in saying that rains armor is not to full potential yet. It is execution heavy but once you can get armored lightning it makes rain dangerous to zone. This is another one of the reasons i ordered my hitbox. On a pad armored lightning is painstakingly hard but on a hitbox it will be incredibly easy. This is part of mastering rain and once people can do it consistently it could drastically change the MU numbers against zoners like freddy, Kenshi, and Noob.
 

YOMI Reno_Racks

I have a dream...
39 meterless fullscreen? whut? How?
Back yourself all the way into the corner and do a forward dash. Now when you land a lighting or EXRH into lighting throw out bubble, bring it behind your head, uppercut, 43xxgeyser, 43xxgeyser= 39%. It's situational but once you start doing it you'll position yourself so that you can get it more often.
 
You must of not read my post towards the top of this page comparing Rain's armor to Kenshi's armor. Please do since it was in response to your "Kenshi's armor is better than Rain's" comment.

You say Rain's RH offers no more than Kabal's Flash parry, Sonya's Cartwheel or any other EX launcher but your are very wrong pimp.

Rain's RH allows Rain to do armored cross ups , armored jip, punish projectiles from full screen with EXRH into lighting for 27-39% meter less.

His RH isn't mererly a launcher. It's a punishment tool from any distance on the screen that leads to big damage.

Can Kenshi, Sonya or Kabal parry projectiles like buzz saw, tele flurry, noob's shadow's from full screen with 27-39% meterless? Nope, only Rain.

Mastering armored jumping punches and armored crossups will help with the whiff punish vulnerability that EXRH and armored dash have. If you do an armored jip or crossup and your opponent jumps you will air to air combo him for 30% meter less. If he doesn't jump you have pressure or a combo.

I understand now why you feel Rain's armor is inferior. It's because you ain't using it right. Learn how to EXRH into lightning on reaction and come talk to me.
beat top player's consistently with rain before you try and talk, if it was this good he would dominate characters, he doesn't 7-3 anybody, he hardly can 6-4 a bottom tier, these top players can read rain like a book, they see purple and they blow up on reaction. Top characters don't need meter to stop rain. Rain needs meter just to go even at best. Trying getting in on kenshi with armor. Use your armored rh cancel, he has breaker, then he puts you in a frame trap with a +7 ex shoulder, now your in the corner, can't jump, he can check you for free same as a shoryukens prison. who cares if rain can do 30% avg full screen, once you do that do you expect them to fall for it again? and it's not guaranteed against projectiles such as sonya's, or jax's, or iagb, which is like +15 on the ground. Flash parry punishes any projectile worse, sonyas cartwheel can do equal damage and lead to free'er pressure. Skarlet can do both of these with 1 meter as well. armored dash has very similar uses as RH. Id rather react to pressure and parry into 48% everytime than risk full screen meter with him. Learn to react to zoning and you won't need to spend meter. Save it for bigger scarier things. I think RH is the best move in the game, I just be serious about things at the highest level, all I see about rain in forums is RH. He has so many more tools than this that are just as good. EXRH is a mine, let your opponent walk into it, once he gets hit with one he will try and avoid it, thats when the fun begins and you can play the character, don't rely on this one move. That was directed more towards everybody. Point being it's good, but other character's whole game make there's alooot better. So go ahead and try parrying into jumps and specials, and watch how top players react. They will smile to see meter gone, especially wasted.
 
I dont remember ever dashing into a clone while pressuring. Ill play some with you and reed soon and maybe we can test it for sure.
I'd like to see it tested as well, I believe It works in the corner, the clone that is. At point blank range rain eats a clone in the corner with a 4. with sz in the corner. I fight clone with b2,3 and b2l 1+2. 3 swings behind the clone for free at a special range. SZ is very hard to pressure in general though.
 

Somberness

Lights
Premium Supporter
I don't why would the Ice Clone work, but RH can only be canceled two ways: 1) you cancel into another special move, 2) you dash in or out.

There's no other way to cancel RH. When you hold 4 Rain just stands there "charging" the kick. In my opinion worst case could be that Rain spends those 2 frames of advantage dashing which leaves him at 0.

Let's have Somberness bring some light into the matter: Does the frame data for Rain's Super Kick minimum duration include the duration of his dash to cancel it or only up to the last frame of the charge?
You can't attack until 1 frame after the last input of the dash is read/the dash animation begins. That's also when the advantage starts. Dash longer, and it goes down.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
You can't attack until 1 frame after the last input of the dash is read/the dash animation begins. That's also when the advantage starts. Dash longer, and it goes down.
How many frames the dash spends? I know it's a very short dash in that scenario, but I'm wondering if the dash spends at least 1 of the advantage frames.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
Any movement forward would require losing advantage.
So, for instance, 4 xx Super Kick ~ dash cancel supposedly gives +2 frames of advantage: 4 has a +25 block cancel advantage and Super Kick's minimum duration is 23.

Are those 2 frames completely lost by the time a new 4 is done during the dash? Moreso, are more frames lost leaving Rain at disadvantage?
 

Somberness

Lights
Premium Supporter
So, for instance, 4 xx Super Kick ~ dash cancel supposedly gives +2 frames of advantage: 4 has a +25 block cancel advantage and Super Kick's minimum duration is 23.

Are those 2 frames completely lost by the time a new 4 is done during the dash? Moreso, are more frames lost leaving Rain at disadvantage?
You don't need to dash, but if you do, then the advantage is lost. And I doubt someone could always get the maximum advantage.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
You don't need to dash, but if you do, then the advantage is lost. And I doubt someone could always get the maximum advantage.
That's what I was starting to suspect. So it is safe to say that in average you're at +1 or 0 during Rain's 4 xx RHC pressure. 1 frame has to be lost in order to dash just enough to be within range to repeat the pressure.

Though I think it is evened out by the fact it constitutes a mind game. The opponent has to decide whether to interrupt you or be safe and keep blocking.