Match-up Discussion Oooooh Numbers

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

4RH whiff punishes AND beats Spin...

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[A F0xy Grampa]

After 4 RH I can spin to knock you away, which is what I want to do. And I mean I can cancel by doing 22 slices instead, but you can armor through that I guess.

If I backdash after your armor that is no way in your favor. I just made you waste a bar for nothing. You can however time it right when I do the charge to get pressure, but I will still be able to block.

Your still ignoring the fact that I will build meter in the match, which in turn allows for breakers. So even if you do get a lucky launcher off, I can still break. Not every RH is a free 45% combo.

1. No you cant spin after a 4RH (-3 on block with similar pushback to Cages F33B3), you'll be standing there like a spinning top and eat a 4RH whiff punish. Doing 22 Slices doesnt change the situation at the end of the string other than giving Rain more chance to retaliate. What you're doing is sacrificing +8, for neutral, which is pretty bad. So basically it means that you're restricting one of the best tools you have.

2. Backdash away from my armour isnt for nothing, its 1 bar to get out of a frametrap, on top of that it opens up the footsie game again. Also, if you just back up and blade charge, you're giving Rain a free combo, considering its not max range.

3. Rain has more potential to build meter, and all he needs meter for in this match is armour or meter drain, theres NO possible way you're gonna have a breaker everytime you risk getting out of 4RH.

Since Baraka mainly uses his meter for breaker, and has weak combo damage, theres no reason not to steal his meter, unless you wanna make them waste their bar without using your own.

 

[Zoidberg747]

1. No you cant spin after a 4RH (-3 on block with similar pushback to Cages F33B3), you'll be standing there like a spinning top and eat a 4RH whiff punish. Doing 22 Slices doesnt change the situation at the end of the string other than giving Rain more chance to retaliate. What you're doing is sacrificing +8, for neutral, which is pretty bad. So basically it means that you're restricting one of the best tools you have.

2. Backdash away from my armour isnt for nothing, its 1 bar to get out of a frametrap, on top of that it opens up the footsie game again. Also, if you just back up and blade charge, you're giving Rain a free combo, considering its not max range.

3. Rain has more potential to build meter, and all he needs meter for in this match is armour or meter drain, theres NO possible way you're gonna have a breaker everytime you risk getting out of 4RH.

Since Baraka mainly uses his meter for breaker, and has weak combo damage, theres no reason not to steal his meter, unless you wanna make them waste their bar without using your own.

How is armoring through max range blade charge avoiding a frametrap?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

How is armoring through max range blade charge avoiding a frametrap?

I never said that.

Armouring after 221+2 ALWAYS avoids the frametrap, no matter what the Raka players do.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I never said that.

Armouring after 221+2 ALWAYS avoids the frametrap, no matter what the Raka players do.

Fair enough. I still think 4-6 instead of 3-7.

 

[1man3letters]

Armouring after 221+2 ALWAYS avoids the frametrap, no matter what the Raka players do.

REALLY dont want to be jumping into a salt shitstorm caused from online matches but that statement is not correct.
after 22 1+2...
d1- u lose a bar
d3- u lose a bar
spin - u lose a bar (but more than likely the spin will hit rather than meter drain)

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

REALLY dont want to be jumping into a salt shitstorm caused from online matches but that statement is not correct.
after 22 1+2...
d1- u lose a bar
d3- u lose a bar
spin - u lose a bar (but more than likely the spin will hit rather than meter drain)

If Rain loses a bar, he's still blocked the poke and still at advantage because by doing the Ex RH he's still holding block, if you wanna waste your + frames on a d1 or d3 that can still get blown up go ahead. Still a legit option select.

If you attempt a d1 you have 1 frame to get it right too, miss that 1 frame link you're eating a combo.

 

[ForeverKing]

Kabal cant just sit fullscreen and spam iAGBs because the bubble goes under them, its not a tool for damage, but for breathing space, once they understand they cant just throw iAGBs all day you can move. If it does catch them then fair enough, thats alot of damage.

Know your frame data, moves like F32NDC are +2 on block, B1 NDC is +1 B12 is +2. All these mean is that Kabal can be interupted with Rains 4 unless he does a standing 2 or a F4 everytime. Once you make them commit to doing F4s it means that they're leaving themselves either -5/have to commit to a 5050 or a dash.
Combine all these with the threat of exRH it means that Kabals cant just be ignorant in their rushdown, the risk is nearly always in Rains favour.
Respect 2NDC, or duck it and try to punish with 4RH.

Armoured RH dash beats every one of his wakeup options, other than Kabals that immediately get up and iAGB (for some retarded reason?). But if they do that you can just run in and AA them with 1 before they leave the ground and follow up with the 38% AA

4RH crushes Kabals D3.

Buzz saws are probably the most annoying thing in this match.

I'm not too sure if its even as bad as 4-6 though, cause Kabal cant hurt Rain without using his rushdown. Could possibly be 5-5.

Idk if you have ever heard of 2~NDC 2~NDC 2~NDC 2~NDC 2~NDC 2~NDC with the occasional b1~NDC....... But that type of stuff works on Rain's hitbox lol. I think the matchup has to worse than 4-6 if you have to worry about a block infinite

 

[1man3letters]

If Rain loses a bar, he's still blocked the poke and still at advantage because by doing the Ex RH he's still holding block, if you wanna waste your + frames on a d1 or d3 that can still get blown up go ahead. Still a legit option select.

If you attempt a d1 you have 1 frame to get it right too, miss that 1 frame link you're eating a combo.

True, on a read on the rains player part of a attempt of meter drain setup can punish the d1 but it also works both ways, baraka player can counter that read with d1~spin (d1 slices can be interupted same way youd punish d1 on block so doing that wouldnt be smart) but baraka would be a 0 with some nice pushback. there are still plenty of meta games to be played against rain so was just correcting the statement of that we cant do anything after 22 1+2 against rains armor

also yea the gap is pretty tight on that but it still can be done, the gap on rain armoring after 22 12 isnt the widest either.
if baraka uses f4 instead of f44 to try condition rain to do what he wants him to do the math says..
+8 for baraka,
duration of f4 is 39 frames
- your 8 frames of disadv puts duration at 31
RH is 30 frames
31-30= 1 frame gap
(also for some reason im thinking...dont u need a 2 frame gap to armor?)

 

[Espio]

True, on a read on the rains player part of a attempt of meter drain setup can punish the d1 but it also works both ways, baraka player can counter that read with d1~spin (d1 slices can be interupted same way youd punish d1 on block so doing that wouldnt be smart) but baraka would be a 0 with some nice pushback. there are still plenty of meta games to be played against rain so was just correcting the statement of that we cant do anything after 22 1+2 against rains armor

also yea the gap is pretty tight on that but it still can be done, the gap on rain armoring after 22 12 isnt the widest either.
if baraka uses f4 instead of f44 to try condition rain to do what he wants him to do the math says..
+8 for baraka,
duration of f4 is 39 frames
- your 8 frames of disadv puts duration at 31
RH is 30 frames
31-30= 1 frame gap
(also for some reason im thinking...dont u need a 2 frame gap to armor?)

2 frame gap or larger to armor something, otherwise you'd get meter drained.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Idk if you have ever heard of 2~NDC 2~NDC 2~NDC 2~NDC 2~NDC 2~NDC with the occasional b1~NDC....... But that type of stuff works on Rain's hitbox lol. I think the matchup has to worse than 4-6 if you have to worry about a block infinite

lulzlou has only been able to get half a rounds worth of block infinite in his many attempts on me, but your right in saying you always have to have that in your mind playing kabal, if the player is good enough you can throw in the towel playing too defensivly. Same goes for jax.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

he has infinited me a whole round online, but I dont count online for shit, even though it was harder on him, anything discussed concerning online means nothing, play offline then shit talk <3