Match-up Discussion Oooooh Numbers

[A F0xy Grampa]

foxy obviously lacks experience vs Some characters, and hes from a different region. . . with lesser competition.

Not arguing any numbers here and i suggest Nobody else does either

Not very productive.

The ONLY other place you guys could be getting your rain experience from would be EMP Scar. You guys have NO Rain players on a good enough level other than him.

 

[Zoidberg747]

foxy obviously lacks experience vs Some characters, and hes from a different region. . . with lesser competition.

Not arguing any numbers here and i suggest Nobody else does either

I have no beef with him playing UK guys, they have top players over there. But he references american players that he obviously is playing online, and using that for matchups is laughable.

 

[LEGEND]

Not very productive.

thread not going anywhere, nobody here has any way of changing your mind

also, that post wasn't attacking You. I was more-so pointing out that you are better than your competition So MUs are hard to read. And we have no way of believing you

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

thread not going anywhere, nobody here has any way of changing your mind

I have no beef with him playing UK guys, they have top players over there. But he references american players that he obviously is playing online, and using that for matchups is laughable.

Its not about changing my mind, its about discussing the character. Which seems like you lot need to do since you're not quite getting where I'm coming from on the topic.

The reason it's going to be difficult to change my mind on it is because theres literally 1 other guy playing Rain (EMP Scar), all others either can't make a break in tournaments or are online players themselves or dont play him as one of their main characters. (There's your answer Faded Dreams V btw. )

Its not like I've been playing Rain since his release day either...

 

[LEGEND]

Its not about changing my mind, its about discussing the character. Which seems like you lot need to do since you're not quite getting where I'm coming from on the topic.

The reason it's going to be difficult to change my mind on it is because theres literally 1 other guy playing Rain (EMP Scar), all others either can't make a break in tournaments or are online players themselves or dont play him as one of their main characters. (There's your answer Faded Dreams V btw. )

Exactly?

problem here is Hardly anyone in the States knows Rain, and by this MU Chart i can tell you don't know a good number of other characters. This is a situation were you'd have to play to change peoples minds Cause noone is in the right here

this is the equivalent of discussing skarlet MUs back in March

 

[RTM2004]

I can see Freddy being extremely terrible for Rain, projectiles and ground spikes all day lol 3-7 most likely

Isn't Smoke bad for Rain too?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

this is the equivalent of discussing skarlet MUs back in March

No its not, just because our scene died here not so long ago, doesn't mean we have no matchup knowledge.
Like I said, I've been on Rain since he was released, I know a vast majority of the cast down to most of their finest details, an innovated alot of ways that some of them are played now too. So to say that is pretty rediculous.

You said it yourself, nobody in the states knows Rain. Nobody seems to be grasping on to the fact that he is completely safe, cant be rushed down, has options to stop alot of the zoning in the game (Cyrax bombs, Ice clone, iAGBs, Liu iAFBs, Noob upknee), can drain meter and take half your lifebar with a 10f special mid hitting long range kick. But Sonyas D4, thats big stuff?

There will be a moment of realisation somewhere down the line. Just like there was when I first started using Cage & Sonya.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Its not about changing my mind, its about discussing the character. Which seems like you lot need to do since you're not quite getting where I'm coming from on the topic.

The reason it's going to be difficult to change my mind on it is because theres literally 1 other guy playing Rain (EMP Scar), all others either can't make a break in tournaments or are online players themselves or dont play him as one of their main characters. (There's your answer Faded Dreams V btw. )

Its not like I've been playing Rain since his release day either...

Mothmonsterman0 does fine with him. As does @Smargasm.

And Scar mains freddy and skarlett, I never saw him use rain at MLG Dallas once.

Also as far as numbers, I still disagree with baraka matchup. If Baraka has perfect spacing it becomes extremely hard for rain.

Edit: Also dude, you are good. But you are not a god, and you are not the best player ever. You are so arrogant that it is a tad off-putting.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Mothmonsterman0 does fine with him. As does @Smargasm.

And Scar mains freddy and skarlett, I never saw him use rain at MLG Dallas once.

Also as far as numbers, I still disagree with baraka matchup. If Baraka has perfect spacing it becomes extremely hard for rain.

Playing a spacing game against Rain is pretty much playing right into his hands. All you've got is blade charge, jumps and D4. None of which are a very threatening option.
Its not too hard to whiff punish Barakas D4 with 4RH, or lightning if you're on point.

From roughly Barakas D4 range, Rain has 4, soo you wanna play footsies with a slower normal and get 3%, compared to Rains 48%. You'd have to hit 16 D4s just to make up for a single 4RH. Get one blocked and thats it, Rains in and starting his RH guess game, because Baraka is slow as shit and doesnt have anything to contest him with other than D4 slices, or another low poke which doesnt matter either because even when Baraka is at advantage he still struggles to do much. Barakas D3 can be crushed by 4RH if you're unlucky enough.

(There's something worth finding out I guess, what are the crush frames on Rains 4RH?)

 

[Zoidberg747]

Playing a spacing game against Rain is pretty much playing right into his hands. All you've got is blade charge, jumps and D4. None of which are a very threatening option.
Its not too hard to whiff punish Barakas D4 with 4RH, or lightning if you're on point.

From roughly Barakas D4 range, Rain has 4, soo you wanna play footsies with a slower normal and get 3%, compared to Rains 48%. You'd have to hit 16 D4s just to make up for a single 4RH. Get one blocked and thats it, Rains in and starting his RH guess game, because Baraka is slow as shit and doesnt have anything to contest him with other than D4 slices, or another low poke which doesnt matter either because even when Baraka is at advantage he still struggles to do much. Barakas D3 can be crushed by 4RH if you're unlucky enough.

(There's something worth finding out I guess, what are the crush frames on Rains 4RH?)

D4 slices

Thank you for admitting you know nothing about Baraka.

Also, I dont use D4. I max range blade charge and back up, waiting for armor. If you teleport, I can spin. If you bubble, I can jump for full combo or blade charge. If you lighting, I can either block or just dash forward for pressure.

Im not saying it is 6-4 Baraka, because if Rain does get in, he has as advantage. However, Baraka can still space Rain out if he is AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. Also he could spin 4RH pressure if you dont commit to one, but if you commit to one and it is blocked I spin and knock you away. The whole thing is a huge guessing game for both characters, although I do see how Rain's reward for a full combo is bigger, So I can see how people say 6-4 him. However, at the highest possible level I think it becomes even.

But I wont argue too much, to each his own.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

D4 slices

Thank you for admitting you know nothing about Baraka.

Also, I dont use D4. I max range blade charge and back up, waiting for armor. If you teleport, I can spin. If you bubble, I can jump for full combo or blade charge. If you lighting, I can either block or just dash forward for pressure.

Im not saying it is 6-4 Baraka, because if Rain does get in, he has as advantage. However, Baraka can still space Rain out if he is AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. Also he could spin 4RH pressure if you dont commit to one, but if you commit to one and it is blocked I spin and knock you away. The whole thing is a huge guessing game for both characters, although I do see how Rain's reward for a full combo is bigger, So I can see how people say 6-4 him. However, at the highest possible level I think it becomes even.

But I wont argue too much, to each his own.

That was my point, you'd have to do some stupid shit because a blocked D4 is free entry for Rain.

You cant win an entire match with max space blade charges, not possible 'at the highest level'. If you're not gonna D4 with Baraka, you're gonna have a baaaaaad time.

You're gonna spin a blocked RH? THANK YOU FOR ADMITTING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RAIN. Its -3 with pushback, so you spin, you get whiff punished, you die. Rain has NO reason to armour Baraka unless he's being frame trapped, you cant frametrap without starting your slow string or landing a D4.
If you wanna spin to escape RH pressure, you go ahead because the risk reward in that situation is STILL in rains favour.

You cant just 'dash forward for pressure' if you block a lightning, not even Cage can when you space it properly, if you get too hasty you'll just walk into a 4RH with your dash.

Dont even consider Rains teleport in the Baraka matchup, Baraka has nothing to make you want to teleport. Neither do most of the cast, so having a punishable teleport is kind of a null point if its not even being used, at least in the way you're talking about.

Also, if you're playing Baraka, and Rain players are throwing water bubbles at you, you're playing bad Rain players, sorry. Thats like playing a Scorpion that just throws spears out on block.

 

[Zoidberg747]

That was my point, you'd have to do some stupid shit because a blocked D4 is free entry for Rain.

You cant win an entire match with max space blade charges, not possible 'at the highest level'. If you're not gonna D4 with Baraka, you're gonna have a baaaaaad time.

You're gonna spin a blocked RH? THANK YOU FOR ADMITTING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RAIN. Its -3 with pushback, so you spin, you get whiff punished, you die. Rain has NO reason to armour Baraka unless he's being frame trapped, you cant frametrap without starting

Touche

 

[Mothmonsterman0]

yo A F0xy Grampa , could you go into the Kabal Mu and why you see it as only 4:6, I would be really interested, thanks

 

[Smarrgasm]

Man i guess getting 25th at an MLG and playing well against 16 bit and barely losing to another guy from atlanta (who i always have to play) makes me not good enough to represent this character. I said this like 6 months ago and ill say it again. Foxy if you think rain is as good as you say he is. Prove it somehow.
Ask anyone who plays me nowadays and most will agree that my rain isnt just a walk in the park to go up against.

 

[RunwayMafia]

A F0xy Grampa What is "option select"?

 

[RunwayMafia]

Doesn't Rain have a reset or something similar? No way in hell this character is even remotely close to the bottom of this ever changing "tier list". His armor options alone make him better than at least half this cast.

 

[Peckapowa]

Man i guess getting 25th at an MLG and playing well against 16 bit and barely losing to another guy from atlanta (who i always have to play) makes me not good enough to represent this character. I said this like 6 months ago and ill say it again. Foxy if you think rain is as good as you say he is. Prove it somehow.
Ask anyone who plays me nowadays and most will agree that my rain isnt just a walk in the park to go up against.

your rain is a gentle stroll in the park

 

[Qwark28]

Man i guess getting 25th at an MLG and playing well against 16 bit and barely losing to another guy from atlanta (who i always have to play) makes me not good enough to represent this character. I said this like 6 months ago and ill say it again. Foxy if you think rain is as good as you say he is. Prove it somehow.
Ask anyone who plays me nowadays and most will agree that my rain isnt just a walk in the park to go up against.

why does everyone always take foxys sayings as " you aint good"

it just means you aint as good as him and correct me if im wrong A F0xy Grampa

better fundamentals open up more of a characters options and personally i havent seen rain being talked about in the way this thread does

my 0.02$

now how the fuck do i get the uppercut of 2 bubble fast enough so 43 connects

 

[BenGmanUk]

now how the fuck do i get the uppercut of 2 bubble fast enough so 43 connects

Make the bubble max height and the right side of the bubble just in front of rains head. Uppercut early.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

A F0xy Grampa What is "option select"?

The sheeva one he was talking about would be pushing db3 on sheeva teleport. If she lands on him he geyser kicks, if she goes behind him he throws bubble

 

[Qwark28]

Make the bubble max height and the right side of the bubble just in front of rains head. Uppercut early.

what does the 43 whiff mean?

i dont really look at the spot but i know its crossover, 43 whiffs

 

[BenGmanUk]

what does the 43 whiff mean?

i dont really look at the spot but i know its crossover, 43 whiffs

You're probably using d2 too late. Do it as soon as the bubble breaks so you hit at max height. That or you aren't dashing after d2 quick enough.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

yo A F0xy Grampa , could you go into the Kabal Mu and why you see it as only 4:6, I would be really interested, thanks

Kabal cant just sit fullscreen and spam iAGBs because the bubble goes under them, its not a tool for damage, but for breathing space, once they understand they cant just throw iAGBs all day you can move. If it does catch them then fair enough, thats alot of damage.

Know your frame data, moves like F32NDC are +2 on block, B1 NDC is +1 B12 is +2. All these mean is that Kabal can be interupted with Rains 4 unless he does a standing 2 or a F4 everytime. Once you make them commit to doing F4s it means that they're leaving themselves either -5/have to commit to a 5050 or a dash.
Combine all these with the threat of exRH it means that Kabals cant just be ignorant in their rushdown, the risk is nearly always in Rains favour.
Respect 2NDC, or duck it and try to punish with 4RH.

Armoured RH dash beats every one of his wakeup options, other than Kabals that immediately get up and iAGB (for some retarded reason?). But if they do that you can just run in and AA them with 1 before they leave the ground and follow up with the 38% AA

4RH crushes Kabals D3.

Buzz saws are probably the most annoying thing in this match.

I'm not too sure if its even as bad as 4-6 though, cause Kabal cant hurt Rain without using his rushdown. Could possibly be 5-5.

 

[bipolar_shango]

ok. so suddenly dashing out is the only defence in the game? just because you said dashing out was an option I responded to that, which is stupid. I know kung lao in and out. but dont get mad when people correct you when you say you can dash out of a 7 frame move.

I'm not mad, you just came off like you didn't want to listen to reason.. If 21 is 8 frames and Assuming it's 0 on block, that means after a blocked 21 I have roughly 8 to gtfo before the next one hits... Be it with a backwash,cross up, d1/d3 ~ RH/ex RH or whatever comes to mind.. See what I mean? once there are options whatever tool you have is not guaranteed hence in that situation it all boils down to a read.

 

[SLy]

Jade matchup is 6-4 in Rains favor. Its a footsie based match since jade zoning is strictly limited. She also cant compete with his damage output neither.