Community Concerns Regarding NEC '13

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

The reason why they were DQing people much more quickly on sunday is because of time constraints. Some people had flights on sunday afternoon and it was not planned that the hotel would kick us out at 12. So they had to keep a tight schedule on sunday. Still, I believe anything more than 10 minutes late should be an auto DQ no matter who you are unless you are literally in the middle of another game in which case you have to come immediately after or it's a DQ. Waiting around for people was a nightmare on saturday. I would say almost an hour and a half of delay all together was because of waiting around for people playing other games.

 

[Art Killer B]

AREZ God of War. You should have taken with you one of your pythons, to rip the head off of the ones who disqualified you. Just saying

 

[AREZ God of War]

AREZ God of War. You should have taken with you one of your pythons, to rip the head off of the ones who disqualified you. Just saying

Believe me, I had to show alot of restraint from randomly extending my OWN pythons and lashing out in a fit of blind rage several times.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Believe me, I had to show alot of restraint from randomly extending my OWN pythons and lashing out in a fit of blind rage several times.

You should change your name to God of Pythons

 

[eddie_willers]

I've never been to a tournament, and after reading all this, I can't say that I'd ever want to.

All of this 'we worked so hard, we did so much, we blah blah blah"...

look, it doesn't matter how hard you work, how much effort and time you put it... If it comes out like shit then its shit and your time and effort is a waste of time. This isn't elementary school where you get awards for effort. This maybe be 'grassroots', but it still costs money to enter, to travel, the hotel, etc. etc. It should be professionally ran or the money should be refunded. This whole "well this is how tournaments go... " line is total bullshit. That attitude is what is keeping things shitty. Get people in charge that know how to run and manage things efficiently. End the waiting around for people, have set times.. Problem solved.

I feel really bad for the people that stood around all day and didn't even get to play their pools on the day that were supposed to happen.

 

[Flagg]

AREZ God of War sometimes I dont see eye to eye with you, sometimes I get what you're saying 100% and on this occasion it's definitely the latter. I think you've proved how biased this was. You get DQ'd for being 15 mins late while the "celebs" and VSM members get massive concessions. That there is fucking bullshit.

 

[DarKNaTaS]

IF ANY1 WHO WAS AT NEC WANTS TO COME ON THE ON BLAST SHOW TOMORROW NIGHT TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS SEND ME A PM

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I've never been to a tournament, and after reading all this, I can't say that I'd ever want to.

All of this 'we worked so hard, we did so much, we blah blah blah"...

look, it doesn't matter how hard you work, how much effort and time you put it... If it comes out like shit then its shit and your time and effort is a waste of time. This isn't elementary school where you get awards for effort. This maybe be 'grassroots', but it still costs money to enter, to travel, the hotel, etc. etc. It should be professionally ran or the money should be refunded. This whole "well this is how tournaments go... " line is total bullshit. That attitude is what is keeping things shitty. Get people in charge that know how to run and manage things efficiently. End the waiting around for people, have set times.. Problem solved.

I feel really bad for the people that stood around all day and didn't even get to play their pools on the day that were supposed to happen.

this isnt the norm

most tourneys are the best experience i have in the year in fun

 

[GGA soonk]

I agree. Do not let this deter you from the tournament experience. Personally, I expect order rather than chaos, so sometimes I take these issues a little more seriously than most. MLG suits my need for structure, although I feel they waste a bit of time. The most fun at tourneys never ends up being the tourney itself, it's always spending time with the community. However, a bad tourney experience can ruin your otherwise fun weekend, so I'm trying to make that less likely to happen for the players.

 

[Juggs]

ITT: People complaining about not DQ'ing people and being too lenient. Other people complaining about DQ'ing people and that they should be more lenient.

The MK community doesn't know what it wants.

 

[Enenra]

I had to show alot of restraint from randomly extending my OWN pythons

STB Goldfish appreciates your restraint

 

[Big Frog]

Enenra should be required to post in every thread. You know why.

 

[Justice]

People with no real or valid thoughts on this issue should not be posting here. There are some people I'm fairly certain have never been to a tournament that are discussing the differences between systems in regards to lag, saying that they are the same except for x-rays. This is entirely not true.

I am in full support of Soonk's points about the setups. I have had to switch between online/offline, consoles, controllers, monitors, and more at tournaments. It has never been the same twice, and when I go home I have to adjust to a different system, different controller, laggy monitor, and laggy online. I understand better than most people (barring tip-top players) how fucked up it can be, and how one setup can differ drastically from another for lord knows what reason. I notice this EVERY TIME I play on PS3. I have NEVER experienced issues like this with events running on 360. It has always been consistent across consoles, at least much more so than PS3.

Logistically, I understand that 360 is never going to happen. And it's not the TO's fault that we're discovering the shittiness of the PS3. I made a thread about this months ago, and was met with "but PS3 is better because it has a better controller, and slowdown during x-rays is COOL! Fuck Cyrax and Cage players that have to follow up their laggy inconsistent x-rays with combos!"

In regards to the Riu48 situation, that's fucked up. I'm not sure it even matters what the story is at this point, because from my perspective it honestly seems like the TOs were in the wrong here. There are standards of competition that were not upheld here, and this would be 100% unacceptable in any other sort of sporting event. eSports should be held to the same standard. I understand it's tough, especially when none of you are getting paid like MLG bracket runners are, and your numbers aren't even 10% of what they have. I feel for that. But, having talked to/read the accounts of many players at NEC, I can't help but think that the TOs may have been in the wrong here on some key issues. And, normally I'd still defend them because everyone's human, but this Riu48 situation is just too much. Brb, going to become a bracket runner for Olympics 2016 and let USA join the bracket after everyone's a day into the tournament.

I'm too sleepy for more coherent thoughts on this issue, perhaps I'll add more later.

Yeah, I don't go to tournaments. I don't have the means to travel to American tourneys so therefore I don't go to tourneys since only American ones count right?

That fact that my opinion differs from yours does not make it any less valid. In my experience, there is no difference between the gameplay on both systems. I've had w1nter warz (one of those poor Cyrax players you were talking about) in my living room and he never said anything about it and he only plays on x-box at home. I bring my ps3 to tournaments and noone complains about it. I guess my 5 yr old fattie is better maintained than every system used by TO's across North America. My experiences would also be different from yours since I play Sonya, not a graphically intensive character.

After speaking with some of my friends from the Capcom and DoA communities, they explained to me exactly what the difference is. The way they explained it to me it really doesn't sound like it's that big of a deal; only the really top players would even notice at all kinda thing. But calling ps3 "shit" and "unplayable" is just system bashing. If ps3 was remotely that bad, noone would own one. As I've said before, I don't care what system we play on as I play on stick, but no matter which system is used, players will have to adjust just like everyone else.

 

[Cibernetico]

I didn't go to NEC but have been to tournaments before and honestly, the one recurring thing that keeps popping up if the time problem. Here's an idea, if the Marvel/AE players are the assholes who make problems with time due to registration, then each game's community needs to sit down with the main TOs and organize something that will take care of their own games' registration.

Look, I'm not here to call anyone out. Hell, I appreciate everything all these guys do to give us a venue to test our skills against other players or for just hanging out(which is what I mainly do at these tournaments), but is it really hard to get people who know what they are doing at the registration table? When I went to ECT this past summer, I was surprised at how clueless the people running the registrations were. It was taking the girl in charge at least 2-5 minutes just to find one damn name even though the player reassured her that he pre-registered online and was already on the list.

My point is, put someone who knows how to keep the process going without needing to stop for things that have nothing to do with one another. Hell, put me there and I guarantee you I can get all that registration crap done in an hour. The bracket making can be left for others though.

And like I said earlier, I think it's time that the main TOs started giving leeway to each game's TOs to have their own registration process. I say this because if it's that way, guys like Rob, Phil, Shock, Summoning and the others wouldn't have to stand around waiting on Marvel and AE resgistrations to be over because those assholes were up all night having casuals knowing there was a big tournament ready to go in the morning.

Cheers!

Also, DarKNaTaS, if I can come on the OBS show tomorrow and put this post into words, I'll gladly do it.

 

[IIWade3II]

I been playing Tennis tournaments in Florida since I was 10. Ever since then the best players have been seeded and the seeds are NOT random. The #1 player is supposedly the "best" and has the easiest draw. This is determined by ranking points recieved by playing tournaments. U get more points for higher level tournaments but thats not really important. MK needs some type of official point system where people in say top 8 get so many points increasing from then on. The point of being a new tournament player is having to prove yourself and create upsets! Ive had to beat the #1 and #4 seed just to make semifinals! In a nutshell MK needs a legitimate ranking system. Not random bullshit.

 

[WayoftheFist]

A serious question:

Who should make the brackets for grass roots?

I really want to discuss this because with fr coming up ive said NUMEROUS times i dont want dare be near it. Shinblanka and I talked about it and i voiced my concerns and recently txted him about the nec stuff and just said "we got to avoid this and we have to get it right"

It sucks cause it has to be someone whose very knowledgeable of the scenes players. This needs to be discussed.

What shin and I discussed was forming for FR a "Elder Bracket Gods" and have 4 people from different areas (TOs, community members, etc) collectively make the pools, bracket, seeds, etc.

Thoughts?

This is the only reason I would even comment in this thread, and that's mostly because since I wasn't at NEC I don't feel qualified to comment on what may or may not have happened. Also I'm commenting from page 7 because I know if I read the whole thread before commenting I would forget you asked this, so if the issue is already resolved sorry about the needless reply. I don't know if it's really possible to please people in this respect unless a tournament was 100% pre registered and closed a week in advance allowing the brackets to be made by a group of people (based off of an independant ranking system, then moving players only to avoid training partners fighting in the very first round, all unranked players placed randomly with of course the same consideration for team mates) in advance and posted a day before the tournament or the morning of. However if we all remember, and who could forget honestly, when NFG rankings were talked about a lot all people did was complain so I really think people would just complain that the tournament was seeded by a faulty ranking system.

This idea may be controversial but I would like to see what people think. What would be wrong with seeding a tournament 100% randomly using rankings ONLY for determining who gets a bye if one is necessary? I believe random brackets are the only way you can make a bracket and have it be completely fair to every single player. Now let me say what I mean by fair. I don't mean "But I had to play my team mate first that's not fair." I mean a tournament is designed to determine who is the best individual player and in my opinion it isn't really important to make sure two people who play a lot don't play early. The best two players in a tournament will still play at the end. Look at how early REO and CDjr played at Columbus. That didn't stop REO from tearing through losers bracket and making it to grand finals. It's the best thing I can think of and honestly with the exception of the emotional attachment some people would have to not wanting to play their team mates and training partners but if you think about it from a competive standpoint objectively it's completely fair. Thoughts?

 

[Enenra]

Derptile and I to make brackets. It will be fair because everyone will get fucked over.

Pig Of The Hut thoughts?

 

[RunwayMafia]

GGA Soonk has made a ferocious post that dares to speak out and contains so many valid points that would fall under the category of "common sense". We all love this game...we all love this community...but some of us, who have class and integrity, LOVE legitimacy and structure. It's obvious, especially when top players like Pig Of The Hut, @GGA 16bit, Showtime, and others are claiming bullshit to such pathetic excuses like "oh, MY BAD, I forgot to add Riu to the bracket"...see...this leads to speculation and semi-paranoia. We shouldn't be subject to such mistakes...then have people like Dark Rob talk down to us and say, "it was my bad, I made a mistake". Yeah...it's clear you made a mistake, but saying "fuck you all", or "fuck you", or whatever EXTREMELY RUDE remark he made to those that called him out, stands as ground that you were insufficient at your job.

We all support and respect and adore that you people put so much work into organizing and putting on these events. It's not easy. However, if you include "fuck you" as a response to criticism, then it's time for you to go. And if you people are rigging events or partaking in shady activities behind the scenes, shame on you and they all should be sent away. Can you guys imagine if a judge, a judge in an Olympic sport, say diving or gymnastics, was questioned on his ability and responded "eh...fuck you", do you guys realize what would happen to that judge? He would be removed IMMEDIATELY and he/she would be ostracized. I think all of us, who love this game and love the thrill of fierce competition, would prefer Olympic style standards. Am I wrong?

I attended Final Round... I had a terrible tournament but I felt it was ran strictly and fair. Then I hear people calling Pig "Rig of the Hut"...I was disheartened by this...I mean, I don't know what he does behind closed doors...but it seems to me that he strives for perfection and has the desire to polish this SPORT of ours into something serious and to be reckoned with! My point is...who cares if the people running the tourney is popular...who cares if they are friends with Tom Brady...there needs to be serious checks and balances. Someone who isn't scared to tell Perfect Legend or Reo or CDJR to sit the fuck down and step away because they were "late to their match".

These grass root TO's need to realize that so many of the entrants are nobodies and they paid money to attend....THIS IS THE COMMUNITY. Do we want tournaments that contain the top 20 players, who are all egotistic and delusional, or do we want tournies with 100 plus kombatants ready to battle.

There needs to be serious changes in the way things are run...people to need to be checked...PERIOD.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Well you guys should ALL show up to SCR.

EGP are the most badass TO's that I have ever seen. I GUARANTEE an excellent tournament experience (as far as things under our control.)

 

[Cat]

Like I said in Showtimes thread, the RIU thing is wrong. Even letting him choose what pool time to be in. Being placed in later pools should not be allowed. Tommy Wafflez couldn't attend UFGT8 and I had to take a day off of work because of this. Keits and CurlyW are nazis and rightfully so when it comes to pool placement.

So you guys are sayin. I could told Phil and them to add me to a hella. Late pool so I could not have to get off work and take a later flight and actually went???
Smh!

 

[GamerBlake90]

I'm getting a serious case of deja vu here. -_____-

Okay guys, I think this thread needs to be put on time-out for a couple of days, this is not getting us anywhere. Once both parties take time to digest the situation and approach things from a rational standpoint, I will break the lock. I will also be cleaning this thread of the flaming nonsense that is infecting it. This is hardly a way to show gratitude to those who broke their backs for us, even if there were indeed some errors in judgment.

Do not bother messaging me asking to have this unlocked, because I will not respond to any such PMs. Unless the fellow staff overrule me, that decision lies only with me.

Truly this is a sad day for the community.

 

[GamerBlake90]

All right, thread reopened. Thankfully I didn't have to clean out that many posts, but I still ask that everyone stay civilized when expressing their concerns.

 

[9.95]

The good news is, I believe that at this point, cooler heads have prevailed and many of the parties involved have talked.

There have obviously been some things that have happened and said since Monday that are not good. I'm going to leave those alone because I have focused on the positive from all this: NEC gives me a chance to improve. That's simply the way I look at it.

The ONLY real tragedy here is the way Dark Rob was attacked. Sometimes people need to see the bigger picture and realize that Rob was not acting by himself. The work he did is the work that was delegated by the TO's. Instead of immediately targeting him and calling him names, accusing him of being a liar, a cheat, and ANYTHING less than someone of the highest integrity was wrong.

If anything, that falls squarely on my shoulders, as I said so in my "Silver Lining" thread.

I am truly saddened that Rob will never again grace this forum, a tournament, or this community. He was truly one of the best there is. He made a mistake in speaking so harshly, but rest assured, that came from an overworked, sleep deprived person who HONESTLY believed that we did the best job we could do given the circumstances, the obstacles we had overcome, and the task we had to accomplish. He walked into, not just criticism, but an all out assault on his character, which should never have been in question.

Many people have the ability to contact me directly and this wasn't done. I wish it had been because it was definitely a more direct route to answers, and ultimately resolution.

We have 2 casualties here in Dark Rob and Swift Tom Hanks.

Remember this when being honest about how you feel, especially when someone's tireless work is the target of your observation:

HONESTY WITHOUT SENSITIVITY IS BRUTALITY.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

We have 2 casualties here in Dark Rob and Swift Tom Hanks.

Man I am really sorry to hear that..

In the future, people need to remember to 1) Get all the facts and 2) Reach out to the person in question personally before they go making large public accusations and blowing them up.

 

[9.95]

Man I am really sorry to hear that..

In the future, people need to remember to 1) Get all the facts and 2) Reach out to the person in question personally before they go making large public accusations and blowing them up.

I'm not saying this shouldn't have been on the forum. I talked directly to soonk about this and I agreed it needed to be said.

But one thing that also needs to change is that instead of trying to "Jerry Springer" every problem that we have, try being an adult, and confronting your problems head on... That means either with the person you have the problem with, the person that caused a problem, or with someone who can help get the problem resolved. Not everything has to be a public affair.