Community Concerns Regarding NEC '13

[FrothyOmen]

Also, LBSH. If this was someone who was not from New York or VSM...their ass would've been ordering a Blizzard at the nearest DQ.

LOL

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

You make pools & brackets in advance with everyone confirmed to be coming and seed accordingly from there.
Say, a pregame one a week before the show, and another updated one a night or two before to save room for whoever may be out of communication (as I was for nearly two weeks, I almost didn't make it at all but managed to get my shift covered at the 11'th hour).
Give people/remind people to get as much info as possible as far as getting in touch with TO's or Staff in case of emergency or detour.
Leave a few spots open for last-minute'ers, but set a finite, absolute cut-off time.
Everyone's informed, everyone's been given an out, top players have been given their chance to get their seed, everyone's has a fair shot.

Either way, I had a hell of an experience.

Sucks about the stream monitors thing, but I know KN and the guys who do this all over the place bust their asses on a constant basis for us because they love to put on a great show, so I know they'll address whatever needs addressing and kick ass accordingly.

 

[DarKNaTaS]

DarKNaTaS is telling me the brackets were rigged.

Now I am not at all disappointed that I was unable to go.

What the hell was rigging brackets and why?

no u worded that wrong there were claims of rigging not that they were rigged and i was working on getting more info about it. to get to the bottom of it

 

[M2Dave]

no u worded that wrong there were claims of rigging not that they were rigged and i was working on getting more info about it. to get to the bottom of it

Fair enough.

I have heard a lot of bull shit, though. I will let you elaborate tomorrow on the OBS since you were there.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

no u worded that wrong there were claims of rigging not that they were rigged and i was working on getting more info about it. to get to the bottom of it

m2dave blowing something out of proportion!? YOU DON'T SAY!?

Cossner need that one picture, you know that one

 

[DarKNaTaS]

Fair enough.

I have heard a lot of bull shit, though. I will let you elaborate tomorrow on the OBS since you were there.

yea obs will be making an announcement about tomorrow nights show soon and whats gonna be going down

 

[4x4lo8o]

CRUM The problem with random seeding is that you could potentially have a pool filled with all top players that eliminate each other before even getting out of pools. It makes top 16 completely uninteresting because scrubs were able to weasel their way out of pools (and subsequently get bodied by whoever made it out of the top player pool_, meanwhile everyone's pissed because several top players go 0-2, which statistically should never happen in a well-balanced bracket.

On top of how bad the top players knocking each other out is, random seeds can suck for the scrubs too. At the first local tourney I went to we used a random bracket. First round I had to play B Wizz and got bodied(which was fine, same thing would have happened if it'd been seeded) and then my first round in losers I had to play Morty who had been knocked to losers by Detroit in the first round. Detroit and Morty ended up getting 1st and 2nd, and B Wizz got 3rd. It wasn't a big deal because it was just a local tourney - no one travelled to far, no one even paid to enter, we were all just there to play. But if it had been been a tournament I'd travelled for that would have sucked. If I had played Pig first round at MLG Dallas then immediately gotten knocked out of the tournament by Maxter that would probably be the last time I ever travelled to an event.
Lots of people have a bad day when the second best player in the tournament goes to losers round 1.

Taking into account regions in pools is also really important. I roomed with the Terry brothers at Dallas, and the only thing they talked about Friday night was how they were going to have to play each other the next day. That definitely tainted their entire tournament experience, it was a lose-lose situation. No matter who won both of them felt bad about it. The last thing you want to do is create a shitty experience like that for top players. If they lose their desire to compete and stop travelling to tournaments the whole community loses.

I don't know who the best person to have create brackets is, but you can't do it randomly

 

[Cossner]

m2dave blowing something out of proportion!? YOU DON'T SAY!?

Cossner need that one picture, you know that one

 

[Marvaz]

I was officiating Noobe's pool at Evo, and he was originally disqualified for his tardiness. He did arrive late, explained his situation, and appealed to the tournament organizers (with the assistance of Tom Brady, who I believe was merely advocating for the strongest tournament possible). The k20 pool still had room, so it was the obvious choice.

We're not trying to rig anything. Tournaments are very chaotic and sometimes you have to make difficult decisions. It was determined that moving Noobe (someone who paid quite a bit to attend and had every intention of playing) into a pool with room provided a more desirable outcome than upholding the disqualification and removing a player due to an unintentional rule violation.

Concerning "favoring", Noobe was disqualified at the same point other players were disqualified. Any player can appeal to the TOs concerning this ruling, and I know other players have had the ruling reversed, regardless of their status in the community.

Next time I don't like my pool, I'll show up late, give you a sad story, and appeal to be put in a later pool. Sounds fair.

What soonk said.

 

[M2Dave]

m2dave blowing something out of proportion!? YOU DON'T SAY!

Shut up, fool.

I, like Slips and others, am just questioning where there was some kind of favoritism towards VSM in this tournament.

 

[16 Bit]

No one should be allowed to choose their pool time. This is unacceptable.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Shut up, fool.

I, like Slips and others, am just questioning where there was some kind of favoritism towards VSM in this tournament.

YOU DON'T SAY!?

 

[Rip Torn]

newcomers should fght newcomers and pros should fight pros, then after a few eliminations we have some slaughter where newcomers prove their worth and the pros cutting through people and fighting each other in the losers bracket

What you are talking about is a Swiss-system tournament. There are alot of benefits to this system but it would not be good for a Major tournament. It doesn't really lend itself to hype. It would be better for a local or weekly series. Level-Up was doing something like this on Saturdays but I'm not sure if it still happens and they didn't run MK.

 

[Ilthuain]

Next time I don't like my pool, I'll show up late, give you a sad story, and appeal to be put in a later pool. Sounds fair.

Like I said, he was DQed with everyone else. You also don't know what the later pool is going to look like or if there is going to be an opening, so gaming the system in this way could backfire.

Nobody was displaced because of his inclusion in a later pool. The bracket was not increased in size. The only difference is that some undeserved byes were shuffled around.

Also, I did not make the final call. I DQed him, but I also see the reason he was shuffled into a later pool.

 

[BillStickers]

What you are talking about is a Swiss-system tournament. There are alot of benefits to this system but it would not be good for a Major tournament. It doesn't really lend itself to hype. It would be better for a local or weekly series. Level-Up was doing something like this on Saturdays but I'm not sure if it still happens and they didn't run MK.

No, Swiss system tournaments are seeded by design. Top players play bottom players first round, and as the tournament progresses, you play people closer and closer to your own skill level. You're right that there's no hype in it, though, since it's a point-based system.

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Omg thank you that stream setup's lag was so bad. I was eliminated from the tournament, because of lag asI had to play a cage on it. Idk if I would've won, but I sure as hell would've had a way better chance if I wasn't playing a cage on input lag. Try getting out that pressure with quan I dare you. Not that it mattered, because my next match would have been against riu48 who was added to my pool after the pools were already balanced out. So my pool was balanced plus riu48. A player of that skill should be balanced into pools not just added after registration.

 

[16 Bit]

Also the Noobe at Evo situation was BS. Isn't the whole point of releasing pools early so players can be aware and strategize?

 

[GGA soonk]

Like I said, he was DQed with everyone else. You also don't know what the later pool is going to look like or if there is going to be an opening, so gaming the system in this way could backfire.

Nobody was displaced because of his inclusion in a later pool. The bracket was not increased in size. The only difference is that some undeserved byes were shuffled around.

Also, I did not make the final call. I DQed him, but I also see the reason he was shuffled into a later pool.

I never said you did anything. Also, weren't Evo pools posted well before the tournament? Should have given someone plenty of time to decide to ask for a later pool. I'm not even saying that's how it went down, but the possibility shouldn't even exist.

 

[Ilthuain]

I never said you did anything. Also, weren't Evo pools posted well before the tournament? Should have given someone plenty of time to decide to ask for a later pool. I'm not even saying that's how it went down, but the possibility shouldn't even exist.

You are right, it shouldn't happen, but it does. I honestly don't remember what Noobe's story was, but it wasn't enough for me to change his status in the pool. It was good enough to convince the TO to reverse the call and Tom Brady to advocate for him, so it must've been somewhat compelling.

That's really beside the point, though. The point I'm trying to make is that these decisions are difficult ones to make in the heat of the moment. You don't want to put out people (people who are unlikely to win) who paid good money just to take part in the tournament, but you also don't want to jeopardize the integrity of the event. I almost always come down on the side of rigid enforcement of the rules, but I can see the perspective of the TOs, who are trying to put on an event that makes the maximum number of people happy that they attended.

 

[CptXecution]

WOW, so this thread is pretty much what I have been saying since EVO. I guess it takes a person named GGA Soonk for people to actually give a fuck! lmao..... Check this out. The outcome of EVO would not have been changed necesarilly but it might have shaken things up a little.

First we had Master D move from his original pool which had 1 other top player Pig Of The Hut, move to pool k20 who already had decent competition with players such as k-frog, Cat, PND_Ketchup, Marvaz, CptXecution.....Had master d not moved from his pool it would have been a toss up between himself and pig. That alone right there would have shook things up BIG time.

Then we had shoryuken added to the pool, ANOTHER top 3 player in his area....Things got harder definately. Last minute decision by the TO okd this i suppose, so I was fine with that.

Then lastly, out of nowhere, Tom Brady informed be right before the pool was about to start that Noobe was added as well....I dont know about you guys buy , Kfrog, cat, ketchup, cptexectution, shoryuken, myself, noobe, master d all in 1 pool???? hmmmm

You guys might say well why are you so upset?? Well i felt like my money was wasted going to an event that was "rigged"...Just look at who I had to beat to come out POOLS.. Shoryuken,master d, ketchup, kfrog, noobe, that alone is a mini tournament in itself..

Imagine what happens if Noobe had not been allowed into our pool??? And Master d stay in his origianl pool. We would have had myself and someone else out of pool k20 and pig and master d in their pool. That alone would have been a HUGE change of outcome of top 16!

Thats why i stopped playing at tournaments and stopped posting in these shitty forums, cause ONLY if you are a certain someone your posts matter.

To end things, and reply about the original post. What happend at NEC is another "Favoring" issue that should be addressed.

Add the random Freddy player you had to beat to get outof the pool to the list of top players in that pool.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Even SF and Marvel run better on Xbox,

I actually a long talk with a couple of AE players about it, and they said the same thing.
I thought it was just another MK issue, but I guess I should think about investing in Microsoft after all.

 

[CptXecution]

This is true. In my match with XBL Mind Gamez at Evo, on an ASUS that was not connected to any stream equipment, he caught me in Cage's xray and was unable to get the b3 followup because the game lagged (visually, not just him being dumb). Stuff like this has NEVER happened on xbox.

I watched that, he didn't even go for a b3, he went for the easier follow up and STILL missed it.

 

[Flagg]

So many posts to Like in this thread.

You do have to wonder, if this was PL, or ForeverKing, or someone from the West Coast, would they have been shown the same concession?

 

[GGA soonk]

You are right, it shouldn't happen, but it does. I honestly don't remember what Noobe's story was, but it wasn't enough for me to change his status in the pool. It was good enough to convince the TO to reverse the call and Tom Brady to advocate for him, so it must've been somewhat compelling.

That's really beside the point, though. The point I'm trying to make is that these decisions are difficult ones to make in the heat of the moment. You don't want to put out people (people who are unlikely to win) who paid good money just to take part in the tournament, but you also don't want to jeopardize the integrity of the event. I almost always come down on the side of rigid enforcement of the rules, but I can see the perspective of the TOs, who are trying to put on an event that makes the maximum number of people happy that they attended.

First, I appreciate you coming in here and explaining the situation to us.

While I see the TOs view on making players happy, consider that they made 1 player happy while compromising the events integrity as you said along with making x number of players upset that this guy was now clearing out their pool when he should have never been there. Noobe may think 'yeah I'll go to evo next year' and 3 other players might think 'well I got screwed last time, why should I go?' Integrity is often overlooked because when it is in full effect, nobody notices, but the minute integrity goes out the window people get upset. It seems much easier to me to follow a structure that favors nobody.

 

[Flagg]

To be fair to the EVO organisers, I remember initially F0xy and Glue were put in the same pool which was ridiculous (mostly due to a issue where someone didn't submit a country of origin), but it did get rectified fairly swiftly.