UMK3 Tier list discussion

[TheRagingStorm]

Jade would be Number 2.

I've got nothing against the Girls of MK. Kitana and Mileena for example. They're awesome.

Agreed, I like Kitana and Mileena, I can see that the girls you dislike are the ones in Reptile Green!

 

[mistaKM]

I feel I am alone on this but I think stryker should be top ten. The lack of some top tiers ability to run jab him, as well as his juggle ability should up him. Also, his knee seems to get through more than it should. His baton throw from a block stance is useful too. Whatever though, I'll just keep picking my "low tier" lol.

 

[Remz]

Interresting, I feel that Stryker is at least equal to Kitana but not as good as Sonya and Jax. It seems to me that there is more people now who are able to score great damage out of advanced juggles.

 

[MKK hanzo]

Mileena FTW!

 

[MKK hanzo]

agree and can hold very well against most male ninjas (h smoke rapes her), nw or even kabal if played right!

 

[sarkastiko]

Unmasked Subzero Is Better Than Scorpion, He Should Be In 14th Position. Cuz, Usub Is Faster, Has Better Defense.... I Don't Know What More To Say!!!
My English Is A Fiasco

 

[Dreamcatcher]

Unmasked Subzero Is Better Than Scorpion, He Should Be In 14th Position. Cuz, Usub Is Faster, Has Better Defense.... I Don't Know What More To Say!!!
My English Is A Fiasco

ur english is fine.
but yeah, usub is very dangerous in the right hands. a "psychic" usub will toy with any non-teleporter.

 

[abc ur dead0]

I agree. Unsub and Scorp Should be swapped.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

I feel I am alone on this but I think stryker should be top ten. The lack of some top tiers ability to run jab him, as well as his juggle ability should up him. Also, his knee seems to get through more than it should. His baton throw from a block stance is useful too. Whatever though, I'll just keep picking my "low tier" lol.

i dunno about that. stryker's game is in the infs themselves. his bombs can only be abused so much in fullscreen. if you can't land the auto on a smart player, you're done. they arent dumb enough to jump into an aaRiot Gun most times. the baton dash is rarely effective on wake up or run unders, and the baton sweep is next to useless. not to mention his auto doesn't always push back characters all the way if run all the way through blocked. with any lag it's pretty damn menacing to try and play with stryker, cuz chances are the aaHP's aint gonna happen. u made some valuable pros for him tho. I just dont feel he has any business up there on the top tier

 

[abc ur dead0]

Stryker is good where he is. Sure, no one can Run Jab him, but he also can't run jab! Huge Disadvantage not being able to rush down like other characters. A blocked baton Dash can lead to serious damage from any character. Stryker is good, but not good enough to be top tier. He belongs in mid tier.

 

[Remz]

Stryker is good where he is. Sure, no one can Run Jab him, but he also can't run jab! Huge Disadvantage not being able to rush down like other characters. A blocked baton Dash can lead to serious damage from any character. Stryker is good, but not good enough to be top tier. He belongs in mid tier.

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Grindfox]

So many times in the past I've felt like posting in the discussion, but I just stay quiet cause this tier list has been canon forever, and for the most part I always end up agreeing with it once I think about it long enough.

Yet all this talk about Stryker has got me to post so..

I've always thought that Stryker has always had the greatest chance to be moved up. In my opinon, at best above Kitana, MAYBE above Sonya (thats a debate only to be made when/if stryker ascends kitana.. and therefore unpractical for the moment) in no way whatsoever should Stryker be higher then that. It really is a hard argument to make..

For the sake of being practical I'll compare my personal arguments between stryker and kit alone.

*Strykers got the inf to punish with which will always outdo any damage kit could do.
*Strykers got the aa nades which will usually work as well as Kit's wavepunch.. if you want to get into how punishable they are, both moves are punishable when they miss
*Strykers got the baton toss which is an -excellent- aa move actually DIRECTLY out of the block.. freezes people in place when you use it right for a free throw.. extremely punishable on miss as well, use as a aa' move almost soley if you know what you are doing with him.

So what I really think seperates these two chars is obviously stryker's main disadvantage.. which is awkwardly kitana's main advantage.. their rush down ability. -and soley their rush down ability-.

*Stryker admittingly can -not- run jab.. I think the best thing he has going for him is to stand directly over the character and mash the jab button (standing in place jabs) throw out a kick when you think you can hit them.. I know it sounds dumb but that really is his best "run jab" option. Once you push the enemy away with a blocked kick you cant rush down anymore, you have to stand just outside their ducking low kick range and try to bait some move out of the opponent to punish... or you can retreat and start your grenade/riot gun spam... clearly a big disadvantage to stryker..

However this works both ways.. stryker himself can't be runjabbed, your opponent is much forced to do the same thing. I really do believe this works out in stryker's favor when compared to kitana. Your going to have to rely on getting your autocombo in without the runjab.. which stryker's leads directly into his inf.

So why is Kitana still above Stryker in the tier list to this date? In my opinon..

* female ninja's have greater basic move priority.. easily better then strykers (standing HK anyone?)
* Kit's rushdown is really unique and unparallel'd to few.. her throw sends the opponent directly next to you for more rushdown + the fan.. this is how kitana is meant to be played.
* harder to juggle, hard to jp combo.. more female ninja inherit properties.
*vs higher chars kit's fans can dictate a match wayy better then stryker's grenades.. however both of them are susceptible to teleporters.

-only my opinon- If it wasn't for the fact of of Stryker's strange glitchy property allowing him to not be runjabbed himself.. its a huge + that makes me believe stryker should make that jump over Kitana. Kitana's way of dealing with chars is a good rushdown... while stryker's way is gimping it... Stryker vs Kit I believe is more in stryker's favor.. and the offset of a infinite between the two is a huge gap as well. Stryker will make the fight based off of autocombos then throws.. inf vs no inf... just my opinion =)

*one final thing to consider!*
Stryker is the only character who has an infinite off of his popup.. second to reptile, however reptile's autocombo doesn't hit ducking characters

I'll gladly argue more about it if you want.. also a few other things I've seen on this forum in much less detail.., and other thoughts I've had

Scorp > Unmasked sub . I think scorp's ability to teleport is invaluable. 50 percent combo punish + airthrow abilities. I think scorp holds his place higher then usub however, based off his teleport alone.

Kano and rep. I believe kano is better then rep.. but that rep doesn't turn invisible as much as he should.. one day as people's skill continues to increase I think rep's invisibility uses could make a very good argument.

Classic subzero: I want to see some good reasons why classic sub is standing in the rankings where he is right now.

 

[Birkin]

My List:

1. Kabal
2. Human Smoke
3. Kung Lao
4. Ermac
5. Robo Smoke
6. Nightwolf
7. Reptile
8. Jax
9. Sindel
10. Sonya
11. Kitana
12. Stryker
13. Kano
14. Jade
15. Unmasked Sub-Zero
16. Classic Sub-Zero
17. Sheeva
18. Sektor
19. Scorpion
20. Liu Kang
21. Cyrax
22. Mileena
23. Shang Tsung

 

[Remz]

Great post! Thanks

My english is so-so...

I agree that Scorpion holds his place over u-sub. Due to his air throw and the great maneuverability of the teleport move, I think that he's not far from Stryker.

I also agree with the fact that Reptile doesn't turn invisible as much as he should, but I think that the main reason why Reptile is still fifth is that only few people are able to play him like Shock or Ded_ do.

 

[Remz]

My List:

1. Kabal
2. Human Smoke
3. Kung Lao
4. Ermac
5. Robo Smoke
6. Nightwolf
7. Reptile
8. Jax
9. Sindel
10. Sonya
11. Kitana
12. Stryker
13. Kano
14. Jade
15. Unmasked Sub-Zero
16. Classic Sub-Zero
17. Sheeva
18. Sektor
19. Scorpion
20. Liu Kang
21. Cyrax
22. Mileena
23. Shang Tsung

I was saying great post to Grindfox, your list is interessting but can you explain why: 13th Kano 17th Sheeva 7th Reptile and 5th R Smoke ...

 

[Birkin]

I was saying great post to Grindfox, your list is interessting but can you explain why: 13th Kano 17th Sheeva 7th Reptile and 5th R Smoke ...

1. Kabal: 1st
2. Human Smoke: 2nd
3. Kung Lao: 3rd
4. Ermac: 50% - 52% off the ground (needs practice, still easy), can be done on pretty much everyone that you need it against, aaHP into 82% easily doable, teleport.
5. Robo Smoke: Invisibility + Teleporting when opponent tries a projectile. Fast spear, best throw, aaThrow.
6. Nightwolf: Excellent rushdown, dash is great, hatchet for jump ins, good JK, much priority.
7. Reptile: Hard to do infinite, slow slide, good zoning. Even if you just got for 51% off the pop-up, always a chance to slip up, invisibility's not as useful as R.Smoke because you can't teleport.
8. Jax: Backbreaker, good combo off the ground, good zoning, sweep.
9. Sindel: Scream, aaFireball, good ground combos.
10. Sonya: Fast sweep, bycicle kick can be scouted, but still very useful for escaping rushdown and the such, it has great range.
11. Kitana: Excellent rushdown, hard to punish a cross-over jump kick into fan. No good ground combos.
12. Stryker: Easiest infinite that works on many people. No run jabs.
13. Kano: Best JK/sweep, cannon balls can be baited and just like Mileena, massive damage done to you if facing a good character *see Ermac's 82%. Ground combos aren't that damaging.
14. Jade: Like all female ninjas, good rushdown, can spam the boomerang, dashkick is hard to punish, and it's pretty fast.
15. Unmasked Sub-Zero: Nice jumpkick, medium slide, ice clone and ice showers are dangerous.
16. Classic Sub-Zero: Pretty good rushdown, fast slide, no forward-back ice-shower.
17. Sheeva: Better rushdown than those who are under her, fireball has long recovery but immediate start-up, most of the moves can be easily punished, but not if used correctly during a rushdown.
18. Sektor: Good throw, but missiles can be punished. Homing missile still has uses.
19. Scorpion: Best combos are punishers, even then, they're all pretty hard to do except the aaRH punisher, good players won't jump enough to let you do it. Ground combos suck.
20. Liu Kang: I guess I can't just say he just sucks huh? Low damage.
21. Cyrax: Moves have too much recovery time, most are useless, net is too slow.
22. Mileena: Any of your moves, excluding the Sai's, if blocked, result in massive punishement *see Ermac's 82%.
23. Shang Tsung: Good players will not let you morph, you are useless.

 

[Tim Static]

Anybody questioning Stryker's placement in the iter list should use him in MK3. Take away the gun, and he isnt much of a threat.

My List:

1. Kabal
2. Human Smoke
3. Kung Lao
4. Ermac
5. Robo Smoke
6. Nightwolf
7. Reptile
8. Jax
9. Sindel
10. Sonya
11. Kitana
12. Stryker
13. Kano
14. Jade
15. Unmasked Sub-Zero
16. Classic Sub-Zero
17. Sheeva
18. Sektor
19. Scorpion
20. Liu Kang
21. Cyrax
22. Mileena
23. Shang Tsung

Dude, Kano is easily Top 5 anytime, anywhere. But I do enjoy seeing the HomoRobo up there, lol.

 

[Grindfox]

Anybody questioning Stryker's placement in the iter list should use him in MK3. Take away the gun, and he isnt much of a threat.

Hence us discussing his potential in -Ultimate-mk3... XD

 

[Azuro]

1. Kabal: 1st
2. Human Smoke: 2nd
3. Kung Lao: 3rd
4. Ermac: 50% - 52% off the ground (needs practice, still easy), can be done on pretty much everyone that you need it against, aaHP into 82% easily doable, teleport.
5. Robo Smoke: Invisibility + Teleporting when opponent tries a projectile. Fast spear, best throw, aaThrow.
6. Nightwolf: Excellent rushdown, dash is great, hatchet for jump ins, good JK, much priority.
7. Reptile: Hard to do infinite, slow slide, good zoning. Even if you just got for 51% off the pop-up, always a chance to slip up, invisibility's not as useful as R.Smoke because you can't teleport.
8. Jax: Backbreaker, good combo off the ground, good zoning, sweep.
9. Sindel: Scream, aaFireball, good ground combos.
10. Sonya: Fast sweep, bycicle kick can be scouted, but still very useful for escaping rushdown and the such, it has great range.
11. Kitana: Excellent rushdown, hard to punish a cross-over jump kick into fan. No good ground combos.
12. Stryker: Easiest infinite that works on many people. No run jabs.
13. Kano: Best JK/sweep, cannon balls can be baited and just like Mileena, massive damage done to you if facing a good character *see Ermac's 82%. Ground combos aren't that damaging.
14. Jade: Like all female ninjas, good rushdown, can spam the boomerang, dashkick is hard to punish, and it's pretty fast.
15. Unmasked Sub-Zero: Nice jumpkick, medium slide, ice clone and ice showers are dangerous.
16. Classic Sub-Zero: Pretty good rushdown, fast slide, no forward-back ice-shower.
17. Sheeva: Better rushdown than those who are under her, fireball has long recovery but immediate start-up, most of the moves can be easily punished, but not if used correctly during a rushdown.
18. Sektor: Good throw, but missiles can be punished. Homing missile still has uses.
19. Scorpion: Best combos are punishers, even then, they're all pretty hard to do except the aaRH punisher, good players won't jump enough to let you do it. Ground combos suck.
20. Liu Kang: I guess I can't just say he just sucks huh? Low damage.
21. Cyrax: Moves have too much recovery time, most are useless, net is too slow.
22. Mileena: Any of your moves, excluding the Sai's, if blocked, result in massive punishement *see Ermac's 82%.
23. Shang Tsung: Good players will not let you morph, you are useless.

LOLWUT???

 

[Derek]

Sheeva is most deff. better than Shang, Mileena and Cyrax so that moves her up at the very least to number 20. Better than Lui and Scorp though? I'm not sure.

 

[Tim Static]

Hence us discussing his potential in -Ultimate-mk3... XD

I know this, mannnn.

But I'm saying is he blew in MK3, and with the Riot gun, yes, he gained an infinite, but is maybe a couple spots better, but not a whole tier better, or more.

He juggles too easy and can be one and done with so many characters above him.

 

[DC HUSTLE 106]

1. Kabal: 1st
2. Human Smoke: 2nd
3. Kung Lao: 3rd
4. Ermac: 50% - 52% off the ground (needs practice, still easy), can be done on pretty much everyone that you need it against, aaHP into 82% easily doable, teleport.
5. Robo Smoke: Invisibility + Teleporting when opponent tries a projectile. Fast spear, best throw, aaThrow.
6. Nightwolf: Excellent rushdown, dash is great, hatchet for jump ins, good JK, much priority.
7. Reptile: Hard to do infinite, slow slide, good zoning. Even if you just got for 51% off the pop-up, always a chance to slip up, invisibility's not as useful as R.Smoke because you can't teleport.
8. Jax: Backbreaker, good combo off the ground, good zoning, sweep.
9. Sindel: Scream, aaFireball, good ground combos.
10. Sonya: Fast sweep, bycicle kick can be scouted, but still very useful for escaping rushdown and the such, it has great range.
11. Kitana: Excellent rushdown, hard to punish a cross-over jump kick into fan. No good ground combos.
12. Stryker: Easiest infinite that works on many people. No run jabs.
13. Kano: Best JK/sweep, cannon balls can be baited and just like Mileena, massive damage done to you if facing a good character *see Ermac's 82%. Ground combos aren't that damaging.
14. Jade: Like all female ninjas, good rushdown, can spam the boomerang, dashkick is hard to punish, and it's pretty fast.
15. Unmasked Sub-Zero: Nice jumpkick, medium slide, ice clone and ice showers are dangerous.
16. Classic Sub-Zero: Pretty good rushdown, fast slide, no forward-back ice-shower.
17. Sheeva: Better rushdown than those who are under her, fireball has long recovery but immediate start-up, most of the moves can be easily punished, but not if used correctly during a rushdown.
18. Sektor: Good throw, but missiles can be punished. Homing missile still has uses.
19. Scorpion: Best combos are punishers, even then, they're all pretty hard to do except the aaRH punisher, good players won't jump enough to let you do it. Ground combos suck.
20. Liu Kang: I guess I can't just say he just sucks huh? Low damage.
21. Cyrax: Moves have too much recovery time, most are useless, net is too slow.
22. Mileena: Any of your moves, excluding the Sai's, if blocked, result in massive punishement *see Ermac's 82%.
23. Shang Tsung: Good players will not let you morph, you are useless.

I agree with some of your rankings of the characters except a few. Also kano is easily top 5.

 

[Grindfox]

I know this, mannnn.

But I'm saying is he blew in MK3, and with the Riot gun, yes, he gained an infinite, but is maybe a couple spots better, but not a whole tier better, or more.

*nod* (I agree, as my post states on the last page)

Just I think everyone overlooks Stryker's disadvantages that he can't runjab, without considering how equally it is a disadvantage to -everyone- he fights.. that is an ability no one else has, and when he autocombos.. its an inf which is also unique and really suits this ability.

Vs Kit its a disadvantage to her entire game.. and even though both chars can't deal with the upper chars on equal ground. I think Stryker's way of dealing with them is superior to Kitana's rushdown/low damage combo game. Idk it's a really tough argument to make, that's why they sit side by side on the list for good reason =) .. I just can't help but feel it should be reversed.

Before I just keep repeating myself, I'll keep my solution simple:
My bottom line is Stryker should be able to deal vs Kit + his unique runjab ability hinders everyone + inf directly off popup is worth another spot in the list then where he sits below kitana right now. I'm sticking to my first post ^^

 

[mistaKM]

His crossover roundhouse is best in the game, also. Stryker, that is. At the start of a match with stryker I generally run in for the popup right away. If my opponent jumps stryker automatically does a roundhouse, which hits every time.

Stryker owns the run jab game. That's all there is to it, he owns it. He owns it because it is used at HIS discression, not your oponnents. Picking styker makes YOU the enabler.

 

[Obstruction]

Stryker owns the run jab game. That's all there is to it, he owns it. He owns it because it is used at HIS discression, not your oponnents. Picking styker makes YOU the enabler.

...really?