UMK3 Tier list discussion

[abc ur dead0]

That's a really fucked up cab. Every ninja is Green, green blood everywhere. Ermac's Fireball is Blue, and Kabal's is Bright Yellow. I thought Robo Smoke was Cyrax for a bit.

Damn good Ermac though 8)

 

[BARSOVIUS]

Dreemer, the 360 controller that I was using during that tournament was not very good and I even told mach1 about this before we even started with our casuals with Shock. But I, unlike Shock, don't like to make excuses about it and just played through with it and still won the tournament. Its not so much that I don't try against Shock or anyone, but if someone is not at a level close to mine, I really don't give it my all. This is also a reason why I rarely post GG's to anybody, and thats because they generally aren't GG's. I'm 29 years old and I've played this game when it came out and stopped for some time only to start again when it became online on the 360 to see if there was any players out there close to my level. I've taught a few players on XBL who were not very good at the time when they started playing this game into beasts and believe they are among the best now (Shaney, Annihilator and DC). Just because I don't say much on the forums about the game, does not mean I don't know much about it.

Shock, I tell you what though, at the next tournament, I will only use Sheeva against everybody and win the tournament with her. This time I will bring my own controller so that I can perform any move I want without any effort as I had endured during that last tournament. We can have some casuals where I will only use her and you can pick anybody who you want and I'm willing to bet that I will come out on top still using the supposedly worst character in the game. Later on, I will pm you about some tactics you might not know about that can make her very effective. I generally don't like to talk too much about character, I like to demonstrate to others what they are capable of and you can ask anybody on XBL who plays with me just how effective I can be with her.

As for Mileena, I don't need to bring her or anybody up to a level of my Sheeva as I can play as everybody very good. I have my favorites as everybody knows and those are the ones that I like picking, but just because I don't random as much as you, does not mean I don't know how to use them.

 

[Annihilator83]

If those same people are going to go to the next tournament, Crazy shouldn't have any problem winning with Sheeva. I'm sure everybody else who he has played with would agree with that as well besides Shock of course.

 

[dreemernj]

Dreemer, the 360 controller that I was using during that tournament was not very good and I even told mach1 about this before we even started with our casuals with Shock. But I, unlike Shock, don't like to make excuses about it and just played through with it and still won the tournament. Its not so much that I don't try against Shock or anyone, but if someone is not at a level close to mine, I really don't give it my all. This is also a reason why I rarely post GG's to anybody, and thats because they generally aren't GG's. I'm 29 years old and I've played this game when it came out and stopped for some time only to start again when it became online on the 360 to see if there was any players out there close to my level. I've taught a few players on XBL who were not very good at the time when they started playing this game into beasts and believe they are among the best now (Shaney, Annihilator and DC). Just because I don't say much on the forums about the game, does not mean I don't know much about it.

That's a pretty long response considering what I said wasn't referring to any one person.

Is this even really CD posting? You guys share comps so much it's hard to tell O.O

 

[Annihilator83]

That's a pretty long response considering what I said wasn't referring to any one person.

Is this even really CD posting? You guys share comps so much it's hard to tell O.O

I wrote that for him because thats what he wanted me to put for him. He can't speak or type english very good, so he told me what he wanted to say and translated to post on here word for word.

I wouldn't worry so much about who is posting and under what computer, I'd be more concerned about that Sheeva heading into that next tournament and think who is actually going to take it down, because you guys obviously have no clue what you are in store for. ol:

As for the control environment, you should know better than anyone who loves to make excuses around here. I can't wait to see what comes out during the next tournament...

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

That's a pretty long response considering what I said wasn't referring to any one person.

Is this even really CD posting? You guys share comps so much it's hard to tell O.O

I wrote that for him because thats what he wanted me to put for him. He can't speak or type english very good, so he told me what he wanted to say and translated to post on here word for word.

I wouldn't worry so much about who is posting and under what computer, I'd be more concerned about that Sheeva heading into that next tournament and think who is actually going to take it down, because you guys obviously have no clue what you are in store for. ol:

As for the control issue, you should know better than anyone who loves to make excuses around here.

This is truth. When I play CD's Sheeva, I usually use my best characters and still lose. Not saying much since I'm not on his level, but still.

 

[StuScotsLazyEye]

You guys are dumb, Stryker should be #1 followed by Sheeva, then Shang.

/thread

 

[ded]

i love those fights

 

[dreemernj]

That's a pretty long response considering what I said wasn't referring to any one person.

Is this even really CD posting? You guys share comps so much it's hard to tell O.O

I wrote that for him because thats what he wanted me to put for him. He can't speak or type english very good, so he told me what he wanted to say and translated to post on here word for word.

I wouldn't worry so much about who is posting and under what computer, I'd be more concerned about that Sheeva heading into that next tournament and think who is actually going to take it down, because you guys obviously have no clue what you are in store for. ol:

As for the control environment, you should know better than anyone who loves to make excuses around here. I can't wait to see what comes out during the next tournament...

. Why would I be concerned? If someone competes with Sheeva that would be awesome. Someone (I think NKI?) used Shang at a tourny a few years back and it was amazing. Any time someone uses a less common character in a tournament its interesting (that's why I love watching low tier marvel tournies).

I'm mostly just happy to see people come out and compete. But negative attitudes like yours seem silly. You're making all of this way too dramatic. Tournies are fun.

You really should reread what I said. You misinterpretted it. Its a general comment that applies to all fighting games and comes from me seeing lots of people make lots of excuses. Kaillera circa 2002 is mostly where my attitude comes from. Everybody had an excuse.

And now, if you check someplace like SRK the trend is "OMG this adapter adds 1 frame of input lag!!!" The attitude that BYOC console tournies are good cause people can't make excuses is aimed more at stuff like that where there is a constant source of complaining.

I don't know why you want to make something personal out of something that isn't. So maybe just cut the drama and enjoy yourself more.

 

[dreemernj]

That's a pretty long response considering what I said wasn't referring to any one person.

Is this even really CD posting? You guys share comps so much it's hard to tell O.O

I wrote that for him because thats what he wanted me to put for him. He can't speak or type english very good, so he told me what he wanted to say and translated to post on here word for word.

I wouldn't worry so much about who is posting and under what computer, I'd be more concerned about that Sheeva heading into that next tournament and think who is actually going to take it down, because you guys obviously have no clue what you are in store for. ol:

As for the control environment, you should know better than anyone who loves to make excuses around here. I can't wait to see what comes out during the next tournament...

. Why would I be concerned? If someone competes with Sheeva that would be awesome. Someone (I think NKI?) used Shang at a tourny a few years back and it was amazing. Any time someone uses a less common character in a tournament its interesting (that's why I love watching low tier marvel tournies).

I'm mostly just happy to see people come out and compete. But negative attitudes like yours seem silly. You're making all of this way too dramatic. Tournies are fun.

You really should reread what I said. You misinterpretted it. Its a general comment that applies to all fighting games and comes from me seeing lots of people make lots of excuses. Kaillera circa 2002 is mostly where my attitude comes from. Everybody had an excuse.

And now, if you check someplace like SRK the trend is "OMG this adapter adds 1 frame of input lag!!!" The attitude that BYOC console tournies are good cause people can't make excuses is aimed more at stuff like that where there is a constant source of complaining.

I don't know why you want to make something personal out of something that isn't. So maybe just cut the drama and enjoy yourself more.

 

[Annihilator83]

LOL, where am I being negative? I just said to start thinking about who is going to take down that Sheeva heading into that tournament. I guess every little thing will seem negative around these boards. Its no wonder Hanzo doesn't even post here anymore for sharing his opinion on a subject matter that wasn't even negative in the first place.

 

[dreemernj]

CD is being vicariously negative through you by acting like a general comment about fighting games in was somehow singling him out. Persecution fantasies have been common around here lately.

And you just have a funny tone to how you write. Maybe that's why CD's comment sounds so strange.

Also, this is probably a good place to remind all that Hanzo left because he couldn't understand why so many people got angry at him for saying all of the US is bad at MK except Lex. He didn't see anything wrong with that statement and wanted everybody that was getting on his back about it to just take it and be quiet. I tried to explain to him why a line like that would make people so angry, but he just didn't want to hear it and would rather just leave. If he's played more US players now maybe he realizes that Lex isn't the only good MK player and his views have changed. That would be cool.

 

[Darkshowers]

The way I see it is this. CD is probably the best player in the game as of now until proven otherwise. Of course, as the best player in the game, he can pick any character in the game and be really nasty with him. He could pick Shang, Sheeva, Cyrax or whoever he wants and win all the time with that character because he is the best. Similarly, Hanzo could hypothetically come to the states and win tournaments with his awesome Milenna as he is the best player in his country. However, this doesn't automatically move them up on a tier list.

The point is the best players can pick anyone they want and they will usually dominate. That's obvious

As far as I know, characters only move up in the tier list when the AVERAGE player can use Sheeva effectively in tournaments and do well. So ok, not many players use Sheeva effectively now but if a ton of players watch and imitate CD and use Sheeva to place high in tournaments, then I say that warrants moving her up on the tier list. Until then, this is all just talk.

It's just like how players have imitated ded's Reptile and now Reptile is higher up on the tier list or perhaps Shock's Ermac.

 

[Kaiba]

So has CD played Lex yet to determine if he's THAT good? Sounds like a great matchup to have. I know I played his Sheeva on saturday via DS and it is really impressive.

 

[abc ur dead0]

The point is the best players can pick anyone they want and they will usually dominate. That's obvious

As far as I know, characters only move up in the tier list when the AVERAGE player can use Sheeva effectively in tournaments and do well. So ok, not many players use Sheeva effectively now but if a ton of players watch and imitate CD and use Sheeva to place high in tournaments, then I say that warrants moving her up on the tier list. Until then, this is all just talk.

It's just like how players have imitated ded's Reptile and now Reptile is higher up on the tier list or perhaps Shock's Ermac.

 

[mrkasumi]

Can someone explain to me why Reptile is so high? Personally, even though Im no expert, I dont think he should he that high. His autocombo's do poor damage and if you want to actually do decent damage you have to master his infinite combos which are pretty hard. Yea he has some good attributes to him like the run elbow but other then that he is a hard character to play with.

 

[Tim Static]

Can someone explain to me why Reptile is so high? Personally, even though Im no expert, I dont think he should he that high. His autocombo's do poor damage and if you want to actually do decent damage you have to master his infinite combos which are pretty hard. Yea he has some good attributes to him like the run elbow but other then that he is a hard character to play with.

Read the strategy guides here. They explain a little more in detail about tier list positions.

But in the hands of somebody who is a master Reptile player, Rep is a fucking beast. Not better than Kano-beast, but a beast non the less.

 

[mrkasumi]

I told myself the exact same thing after I posted it. When you really think about it though almost any character can be a beast in the right hands. Yea some characters suck and theres nothing you can do about it but most characters can be a complete threat. Not only the top tier.

 

[Tim Static]

I told myself the exact same thing after I posted it. When you really think about it though almost any character can be a beast in the right hands. Yea some characters suck and theres nothing you can do about it but most characters can be a complete threat. Not only the top tier.

It all depends on the skill of the player, not the potential of the character. The tier list is designed with the thinking that the skill level is the same between the players.

 

[mrkasumi]

Okay, that makes me understand it a lot better. But think about like this. Two really skilled players are playing against each other. Kabal vs. Mileena. They are both really skilled players so they both know what they are doing so therefore even though Mileena is #22 on the list they could still whoop the other persons ass. So you said the tier list is based off the skill of the player and not the potential of the character which is stupid becuase any character can be a good character depending on the player.

 

[HAYRON]

Okay, that makes me understand it a lot better. But think about like this. Two really skilled players are playing against each other. Kabal vs. Mileena. They are both really skilled players so they both know what they are doing so therefore even though Mileena is #22 on the list they could still whoop the other persons ass. So you said the tier list is based off the skill of the player and not the potential of the character which is stupid becuase any character can be a good character depending on the player.

I don't know why people don't understand tier lists. Ok here's a little visual aid.

Let's say you have a 3 pound rock and a 100 pound rock.
George and Fred have the same strength, about that of the average man
George and Fred stand 10 feet apart.
George picks up the 3 pound rock and Fred picks up the 100 pound rock.
From 10 feet they both proceed to throw the rocks at each other.

MOST LIKELY George is going to remain standing because it is simply easier to accurately throw the 3 pound rock. It's true, that on rare occasions, Fred may hit his target. But that will be rare.

If Fred is a body builder or an athelete and is just capable of more, yes he may dominate with the 100 pound rock. But if his opponent is a professional pitcher or something of the like, that 3 pound rock is going to fly that much faster, and will probably hit fred before he can lug the big rock off of the ground.

A la:

Kabal = 3 pound rock

Everyone else = 5 - 95 pound rocks

Sheeva = 100 pound rock


Something else you might want to consider.
If someone is playing as Kabal and they have absolutely mastered him.
If that person is literally playing against themself standing right there beside them, and their clone who has exactly the same skill as them is playing as some low tier character. Even if they have mastered the low tier character, the mastery of Kabal will overpower them 99 times out of 100.

 

[Shock]

Okay, that makes me understand it a lot better. But think about like this. Two really skilled players are playing against each other. Kabal vs. Mileena. They are both really skilled players so they both know what they are doing so therefore even though Mileena is #22 on the list they could still whoop the other persons ass. So you said the tier list is based off the skill of the player and not the potential of the character which is stupid becuase any character can be a good character depending on the player.

I don't know why people don't understand tier lists. Ok here's a little visual aid.

Let's say you have a 3 pound rock and a 100 pound rock.
George and Fred have the same strength, about that of the average man
George and Fred stand 10 feet apart.
George picks up the 3 pound rock and Fred picks up the 100 pound rock.
From 10 feet they both proceed to throw the rocks at each other.

MOST LIKELY George is going to remain standing because it is simply easier to accurately throw the 3 pound rock. It's true, that on rare occasions, Fred may hit his target. But that will be rare.

If Fred is a body builder or an athelete and is just capable of more, yes he may dominate with the 100 pound rock. But if his opponent is a professional pitcher or something of the like, that 3 pound rock is going to fly that much faster, and will probably hit fred before he can lug the big rock off of the ground.

A la:

Kabal = 3 pound rock

Everyone else = 5 - 95 pound rocks

Sheeva = 100 pound rock


Something else you might want to consider.
If someone is playing as Kabal and they have absolutely mastered him.
If that person is literally playing against themself standing right there beside them, and their clone who has exactly the same skill as them is playing as some low tier character. Even if they have mastered the low tier character, the mastery of Kabal will overpower them 99 times out of 100.

Thanks Hayron. Once you get into lopsided player skill, the low tiers can start beating the high tiers, but in that situation the tier list doesn't matter as much. Closer ranked characters can have less skill difference between the players to see significantly different results.

 

[rzpmkkteam]

NOTE: Im using RZP account to clarify sumething so ITS NOT RZP who is posting but MKK HANZO_HASASHI!

Sorry but I had to say this:

To Dreemer:

If he's played more US players now maybe he realizes that Lex isn't the only good MK player and his views have changed. That would be cool.

Sadly, my mind hasnt changed, in fact, every player that I play on the DS is weaker than the another, proving my point.

The only one and I mean it, the ONLY that has given me a run for my money is called:

CRAZY DOMINICAN

He is the only one who has win a set of fights against me. Im not saying that I never lose a fight. Yes I have lost some but its sad that NO ONE has ever won a set of fights against me.

Proof? I always have write down who I play and how we end, here is the rampage:

HONORABLE MENTIONS:

Hanzo vs MKF30:

First time I played online 21 to 11
Second set: 21 to 18

Hanzo vs Scheisse (ds nick: ????)
6 to 2
Very funny cause he labeled those matches as a "joke" cause of the lag, and I remember him and all out here: I dont play online, I ve NEVER played online and I still dont like to play it. He has played online since god knows when so, online excuses again (quoting Lex)

Hanzo vs LITHIUM:

First set: Man your Sonya s good but a bit predictable, your U Sub is definately better I was also surpised to see that you have played 5900 times!! . We ended up like:
Hanzo: 42 wins 30 Babalitys 3 Flawless, Lithium: 17 wins 8 Babalitys

Second Set: Thx to you my streak reached 32 and that night you only won 6 against 60+.

Hanzo vs NOT AGAIN: Well you re pretty good, actually your style is quite familiar...hummm... Pretty close matches, mostly random select wich I dont find fun lol.
Hanzo: 16 wins 2 babalitys, Not again: 12 wins

Hanzo vs HAXXXOR

Hanzo_H 21 wins + 1 flawless, Haxxxor 4 wins + 1 flawless


There was a second set against HAXXXOR but really dont remember how much we ended, of course I won. =)

Hanzo vs TXKAIBA

Hanzo 3 Kaiba 0 we had terrible lag and we decided not to go farther.

ALL THE OTHER GUYS THAT I VE PLAYED ARE JOKES, WINNIN AS MUCH AS ONE MATCH AND LEAVING IF I EVEN PUT MY CURSOR OVER KABAL . I ve played 70% of the list of gamers here listed except Moe, Shock, Dreemer, Konqrr, UMK Girl, UMKStatic and others.

ALL OF YOU ARE ADDED ON MY DS SO WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR??

IM ALWAYS ONLINE AFTER 22 pm gmt 4:00.


Onto the Kabal Stuff:

LOL at ppl hating me or bitching that I only pick Kabal, that is PLAIN SCRUBNESS. Over Kabal me or do your best to destroy me! Stop crying!

Funny that all USA players I ve played have taken 533 Babalityes and uncountable flawless and Im over the 1000 wins now ... THX GUYS!

Now onto Crazy D:

This guy is a beast! At least online is the only one that shows that he knows what he is doing:

hanzo 11
Crazy 9

hanzo 17 + a double flawless + babality (same round) + 2 flawless (individual rounds) crazy d 14 wins + 4 flawless (individual rounds)

Crazy Dominican 44 + 4 flawless (individual)
Hanzo 37 wins + 2 flawless (individual) + 6 babality (individual)

Crazy Dominican 37 + 1 flawless
Hanzo_Hasashi 21 + 2 flawless (individuals) + 1 baby (alone)

Crazy Dominican 31 wins + 2 flawless
Hanzo_Hasashi 20 Wins + 1 baby + 1 Flawless

Crazy 27 + 1 baby
hanzo 21 + 1 baby + 1 flawless

Hanzo_H 24 wins + 3 Flawless + 3 Babys (all individuals)
Crazy Dominican 22 Wins + 1 DOUBLE FLAWLESS! + 3 flawless (individuals).


OK WHAT ALL THIS RANT MEAN?

IM BETTER than a lot of ppl here. So simple math:

Hanzo_Hasashi > 70% umk.com players.

Like it or not but is a fact.

Why do I care? Or who cares? By this:

If he's played more US players now maybe he realizes that Lex isn't the only good MK player and his views have changed. That would be cool.

Stop bulling with my name kid, you know why I left and it was cause I said the trhuth YOUR THRUT and no one liked it. Also LOTS of good ppl here are seeing "it" too so I know I was right.

Thruth hurts they say.

If these numbers offend, dont give a shit, may appear doubtful, or are untrustable, take a look at you (the readers) and ask yourselves WHY would I post lies.

And yes Im PROVING that Im better.

Ask CD if anyone have doubts on my skill and how is the lag with him before playing me, I dont want that "excuse".

Im tired of saying that I dont play online and still dont like them bit I give NO EXCUSES when I lose.

Why do I respect Lex when I dont even have played him?

Many MSN chats with him (very enjoyable) about UMK3 VERY HIGH level stuff, concepts, traps and shit is something I would wish to do more and that let you know when someone is skilled, not theory.

Same respect goes to Ded_ long time friend.

Again: 1976-8787-7750 - Hanzo_H (MKK Hanzo)

As USA takes online gaming very seriously plz do your best against me! Prove me wrong! LOL


AGAIN: Im using RZP account to clarify sumething so ITS NOT RZP who is posting but MKK HANZO_HASASHI!

Note: SORRY FOR THE RANT, DONT EXPECT ANOTHER POST OF ME HERE, GGs EVERYONE!

 

[Kaiba]

Hanzo vs TXKAIBA

Hanzo 3 Kaiba 0 we had terrible lag and we decided not to go farther.

Nice to see I'd get honorable mention even though I'm a little above average. :?

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

LMFAO at Hanzo. 98% of the players on that list you named sux balls. CD is the only player thats realy really good on that list. EVERYONE ON THE DS BLOWS!!!! And you shouldnt judge peoples skill by the DS.

And you live too far away for their not to be lag. Doesnt matter if you played online for 10 years, or a day lag is lag.

And what makes you think all those players live in the U.S.?

Come play on xbox with no lag and you'll get more comp. But other than that, who cares? 99.9% of the people here play for fun not to be claimed the BEST in the world. It a video game at the end of the day. No one's makin money off this so why are you acting like its a big deal? Get over yourself oll: