Match-up Discussion Skarlet vs. Freddy

[M2Dave]

This is not entirely True, Skarlet still has armor when the dash ends, i don't understand why everyone thinks that if i Ex Red Dash i have to use a slash or slide if i know you saw it comming you'll eventually block it, that is why you can get jailed into another block string wich gives her meter back.
Also, the slide from that distance gets safe and you can't do nothing again.

That is like me saying I do not have to toss projectiles at mid range. I can bait the EX dash with pokes. Both parties can play mind games, not just Skarlet.

Johnny2d, spikes make Skarlet's teleport whiff. You may even have the time to combo. The teleport is simply bad. It is combo punishable on block. It provides no special okizeme on hit. It has a poor hitbox. In comparison, Scorpion's teleport gives safe jumps on hit and has a superior hitbox. He can combo after AA teleport too. The EX version is advantage on block. Skarlet can do none of these things. Her teleport is almost irrelevant versus Freddy.

 

[Johnny2d]

That is like me saying I do not have to toss projectiles at mid range. I can bait the EX dash with pokes. Both parties can play mind games, not just Skarlet.

Johnny2d, spikes make Skarlet's teleport whiff. You may even have the time to combo. The teleport is simply bad. It is combo punishable on block. It provides no special okizeme on hit. It has a poor hitbox. In comparison, Scorpion's teleport gives safe jumps on hit and has a superior hitbox. He can combo after AA teleport too. The EX version is advantage on block. Skarlet can do none of these things. Her teleport is almost irrelevant versus Freddy.

I'm not going to argue that its any better than it is, especially if the whiff against spikes is that bad. Uou are right in stating all the reasons why its not as good as others in the game, but it does hit him out of nms, glove toss and anti airs etc.

I didn't realize it whiffs against spikes, I'll keep testing it. She obviously can't throw it out there at random in hope that one might hit, but it can work as a get out of jail moment if she is about to land on a spike or glove. However, if the whiff on spike is too bad I would just scratch that idea and always use daggers to slow her decent.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

That is like me saying I do not have to toss projectiles at mid range. I can bait the EX dash with pokes. Both parties can play mind games, not just Skarlet.

Johnny2d, spikes make Skarlet's teleport whiff. You may even have the time to combo. The teleport is simply bad. It is combo punishable on block. It provides no special okizeme on hit. It has a poor hitbox. In comparison, Scorpion's teleport gives safe jumps on hit and has a superior hitbox. He can combo after AA teleport too. The EX version is advantage on block. Skarlet can do none of these things. Her teleport is almost irrelevant versus Freddy.

I think this is a MU slightly in freddy's favor. Skarlet cant get too predictable especially against someone who knows her options. Yes her teleport is the worse but i know you are not comparing it to scorpions cause his is bad too. You can uppercut him when he teleports or do a combo punish like d1 dc 23 dc 112 reset or with shand d4 cgs 12 12 12 upskull reset. Both or there teleports suck and should only be used on reaction.

 

[Ninj]

I think this is a MU slightly in freddy's favor. Skarlet cant get too predictable especially against someone who knows her options. Yes her teleport is the worse but i know you are not comparing it to scorpions cause his is bad too. You can uppercut him when he teleports or do a combo punish like d1 dc 23 dc 112 reset or with shand d4 cgs 12 12 12 upskull reset. Both or there teleports suck and should only be used on reaction.

d1 dc 2,3 dc 1,1,2 isnt a combo punish...not sure what you mean - Freddy doesn't leave the ground in his teleport as far as I know.

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[Khaotic_xShangx]

d1 dc 2,3 dc 1,1,2 isnt a combo punish...not sure what you mean - Freddy doesn't leave the ground in his teleport as far as I know.

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i was talking bout scorpion's teleport not freddys. i dont know what you mean by that is not a combo punish. please explain

 

[SaJa]

Im from the UK.

Cool ! At least one freddy ! From xbox I guess ? U_U

 

[OSpliffySmitheeyO]

Cool ! At least one freddy ! From xbox I guess ? U_U

Lol, yeah

 

[Ninj]

i was talking bout scorpion's teleport not freddys. i dont know what you mean by that is not a combo punish. please explain

Oh oh oops, sorry I misread your post. That's what I get for skimming at work

 

[Eddy Wang]

That is like me saying I do not have to toss projectiles at mid range. I can bait the EX dash with pokes. Both parties can play mind games, not just Skarlet.

Yes you can
The problem dave, is that while she is on Ex Dash if nothing has gone trough her armor twice, if you poke at the very end of the ex Dash, you will still face the armor, I know you've said sometimes before that "If skarlet are willing to waste a meter for a 8% damage that is stupid" well, if most of use are conservative i wouldn't see why wound't i do it if it will catch you at -13 from your poke. And by baiting a Ex Dash with a poke, you can be stuck in block strings, wich is bad for freddy considering he has a high hitbox and skarlet as a tiny one.

For example, some players who have eaten a full combo from a optical illusion always try to bait ex Dashes with pokes, a well experienced skarlet player will always let you poke first so he can poke back to convince you to use another move that will make her Ex Dash go trough and punish hard.

I'm not saying that Skarlet can win this or that is a Even matchup, no one here in my country plays freddy,, and until someone does only then i'll be avaliable to analyse her tools in depth with MU experience, to convince myself if she has advantage or not.

Nice post dave keep them comin

 

[Johnny2d]

I'm not going to argue that its any better than it is, especially if the whiff against spikes is that bad. Uou are right in stating all the reasons why its not as good as others in the game, but it does hit him out of nms, glove toss and anti airs etc.

I didn't realize it whiffs against spikes, I'll keep testing it. She obviously can't throw it out there at random in hope that one might hit, but it can work as a get out of jail moment if she is about to land on a spike or glove. However, if the whiff on spike is too bad I would just scratch that idea and always use daggers to slow her decent.

Thanks for the tip.

Got to play more matches tonight against Spliffy, I tried to push the tele and use it in different spots in the match, and the result is...

Oh my god does it whiff hard against the spike. Its hard to work these in at all because of that. I have to play this match with more patience and a teleport only once in a very long while.

Bouncing between staying airborn with down daggers to alter your fall, and using well timed ground attacks seems to be the key. Instant air daggers get hit by the spikes cause she is so low still, so they feel pretty unsafe here too, no reason to stay low to the ground because of that.

 

[M2Dave]

Oh my god does it whiff hard against the spike.

During the early frames of the spike, Freddy's hitbox is as low as Mileena's d+4.

 

[Ninj]

Teleport will also whiff against the first half of Kabal's ground saw.

 

[Johnny2d]

Teleport will also whiff against the first half of Kabal's ground saw.

Yup, I knew of this with kabal, but thought freddy was free. That makes spike so good in this matchup, not that any self respecting skarlet was throwing random teleports around anyway, but with the hitbox issue combined with spikes hitting skarlets instant air dagger attempts, it takes both of those options away in some cases.

 

[AK Vip3r]

m2dave I'm not sure yet if Skarlet is on par with Kabal - I have yet to play any strong Kabal players. I think the more important question is: who is on par with REO? Hopefully I can test my mettle against Reo at Evo.

I've also never fought a great Freddy player. Tool vs Tool I think it's safe to say this matchup is heavy on skill - player reads, reaction times, ability to pull off combos. Skarlet does have an advantage in that her most powerful normals 1, 2, and F4, are generally faster than Freddy's, but Freddy's EX teleport has invincibility frames if I'm not mistaken. So if Skarlet has meter, she can trap Freddy, but if Freddy has meter, he can escape. A throw can still connect during invincibility frames in a teleport but that's general knowledge.

In Combo damage conparisons, I believe Skarlet hits harder as well as resets which is an advantage, but last I checkeda Freddy does pack a punch in his combos, unlike Kabal where you're usually tickled for 25-30%. Freddy hits 35-40% fairly easily I believe and can put you at full distance where, m2dave is correct, Skarlet struggles vs this character since she can't outzone him and can't just ex dash up on reaction.

It's a tough call who wins the matchup, but that's not directly what this thread is about. I think it comes down to skill on both sides - Freddy needs to be able to punish as hard as he can when he gets an opening and outzone her the rest of the time. Skarlet needs to read Freddy well and catch him due to his teleport, and once she does, she must be able to pull off her most damaging resets and keep him locked down with mind games through frame traps or baiting the teleport and being ahead of it.

Thoughts/criticisms welcome as always.

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I personally have more sucess teleporting in on air daggers and staying in her face than I do zoning her out. also, not only does freddy have damaging combos, he also has resets and a semi-vortex. Freddy and skarlet share about the same damage combo wise. Its also not hard to bait ex dashes and burn that meter from a skarlet player with a rushdown play-style like mine. however, with that said, if she turns the table and puts the pressure on me up close, it becomes a pain for freddy.

 

[M2Dave]

Yup, I knew of this with kabal, but thought freddy was free. That makes spike so good in this matchup, not that any self respecting skarlet was throwing random teleports around anyway, but with the hitbox issue combined with spikes hitting skarlets instant air dagger attempts, it takes both of those options away in some cases.

The spikes "crouch" under the upslash too, which makes the Skarlet player commit to the slower downslash. Spikes are tied with Kabal's iaGB as the best projectile in the game because you cannot really react to them.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Freddy wins 6-4 then?

 

[AK Vip3r]

Freddy wins 6-4 then?

I think its a 5-5 or slightly in freddys favor.

 

[M2Dave]

Freddy wins 6-4 then?

No. In future match up charts, I am considering Freddy versus Skarlet to be even. The match up has to be explored outside of theoretic arguments on message boards. However, I vehemently disagree that Skarlet beats Freddy because most of FLY's arguments are based on theory and an offensive-style Freddy player. Even if two high level Freddy and Skarlet players fight, match up inexperience is most likely very prevalent on both sides. I believe the following are the only certain factors of the match:

- Freddy has a large advantage at a distance

- Skarlet has a large advantage when up close with meter

- Skarlet is an execution-heavy character who has less room for errors than Freddy, who is more of a reaction-based character.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

No. In future match up charts, I am considering Freddy versus Skarlet to be even. The match up has to be explored outside of theoretic arguments on message boards. However, I vehemently disagree that Skarlet beats Freddy because most of FLY's arguments are based on theory and an offensive-style Freddy player. Even if two high level Freddy and Skarlet players fight, match up inexperience is most likely very prevalent on both sides. I believe the following are the only certain factors of the match:

- Freddy has a large advantage at a distance

- Skarlet has a large advantage when up close with meter

- Skarlet is an execution-heavy character who has less room for errors than Freddy, who is more of a reaction-based character.

I can respect this. I feel like skarlet is the kind of character that does not lose to top tiers...even kabal. But that said Im not saying she wins all those MU either. She is a character like reptile, Lao, or raiden where she has many 5-5 against the best in this game. That said, she doesn't have many 7-3 MU against low tiers either. But I don't feel like she has many bad or...god forbid I say this...ANY bad MU.

My experience against Viper was very educational. He may be a little hasty at times but let me clarify a few points Dave because despite the differences in vipers and your effective styles, there are things that I will do in this MU that I wouldn't normally do in others.

1) like has been said, staying on the ground leads to frame traps and gives Freddy the chance to do that he wants
2) stay to they air and red dash when you hit the ground in order to make Freddy guess where to put the ground claws.
3) since Freddy is a reactionary character I have to assume he will attack as I come down from the air or as I try to jump as that's the only time I'm vulnerable
4) if I land without being hit and you go for a spike, my armor is already eating through it.
5) if I touch you with a combo...you are going to lose AT LEAST 50%. If you guess wrong once or twice if could end up 80 or even 100% gone and all it takes is one touch with a block string.
6) Freddy may have combos that are just as damaging as her combos, but the follow up after is nothing compared to hers. The reset he has (f421 ex claw, tele 50/50 b2 or b3 can be fuzzy guarded). Her follow ups are the best in the game. And against Freddy are at their fullest potential.
7) down dagger is soooooo good against Freddy. It's like a csz dive kick but for less damage and puts her at around +25 depending on distance and height...either way it's enough for a free follow up or f4 check...maybe a slide.

Now if I'm full screen away and have a bar or two of meter, I won't hesitate to use it with a slide to get in. You may call it a waste, but I see it as avoiding Freddy's most effective spacing and getting into MY most effective spacing.

Take these points as you want but to me it makes me feel as if I'm in control most of the time. I feel as if at any point I can take the match. Does that make it her favor? I would say yes but I understand why you hesitate.

I mean...it would suck if the character I dropped could beat the character I picked up.

Lol I'm joking no but seriously. I think we will be forced to say 5-5 until reality takes over for theory. But in my head I'll always feel like skarlet has a little more control over the pace of the match.

 

[AK Vip3r]

Lol I'm joking no but seriously. I think we will be forced to say 5-5 until reality takes over for theory. But in my head I'll always feel like skarlet has a little more control over the pace of the match.

This becomes a 10-0 MU when she starts throwing her tampons around. dumb hoe.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

This becomes a 10-0 MU when she starts throwing her tampons around. dumb hoe.

 

[Qwark28]

L0rdoftheFLY

cant fuzzy guard freddys mixups

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

L0rdoftheFLY

cant fuzzy guard freddys mixups

I can and did vs viper.

Edit:
I just looked at his frame data...they are both 17 frames. However that doesn't mean much.

If I'm crouching it will take longer for b2 to hit me than if I'm standing where b3 hits at the same point in the animation regardless of position. This in turn allowed me to fuzzy guard.

At first I couldn't figure it out but by the end of our series I would just tap down and release it and the over head would not land. And the low would not hit.

The frame data is not finished but I'll bet money the duration of b2 is longer than b3

 

[Johnny2d]

The spikes "crouch" under the upslash too, which makes the Skarlet player commit to the slower downslash. Spikes are tied with Kabal's iaGB as the best projectile in the game because you cannot really react to them.

Ah jeez, good to know.

 

[AK Vip3r]

L0rdoftheFLY

cant fuzzy guard freddys mixups

You can indeed fuzzy guard freddy mixups. I just had to delay the 50/50 and guess right if I wanted to land it.