Match-up Discussion Skarlet vs. Freddy

[M2Dave]

Anyway, do you think skarlet's zoning and tp sux against ermac or sz ? Do you know she can combo from a dagger cancel at twice jump distance ? Except freddy, kenshi, and kabal, who can out zone skarlet ?

Any character with a decent projectile can out-zone Skarlet. Kabal, Kenshi, and Freddy are just the most obvious examples because they are top tier characters. Off the top of my head, I would say Ermac, Liu Kang, Reptile, and Sindel also out-zone Skarlet. A dagger does 2% of damage on hit and has ten more frames of recovery. Think about that for a second, you Skarlet fools. If anything, she has very good anti-zoning because of EX dash.

Khaotic_xShangx, Freddy is not overpowered. But he is a top tier character while Skarlet is not.

 

[SaJa]

Sz, ermac, and reptile cannot even try to do a single projectile if skarlet is spamming daggers cancel (sindel, iceball and forceball will get hitten by tp before they have the time to do shit btw) :\ Again, dagger is not about damage, but about poke from far away and then here comes the slide or up slash.

Skarlet has 42% reset combo, 48% combos meterless midscreen, she has good pressure, safe slide, good mobility, one of the smallest hitbox in the game (KL's tp can't even touch her when she get down), she has good pokes, lot of overheads, best strings on block and thousand ways to play her (so many starters). I'm not saying she is as good as freddy but still ~~ she is much better than most characters such scorpions, rain, sz, ermac, etc..

 

[M2Dave]

Sz, ermac, and reptile cannot even try to do a single projectile if skarlet is dagging cancel (sindel, iceball and forceball will get hitten by tp before they have the time to do shit btw) :\ Again, dagger is not about damage, but about poke from far away and then here comes the slide or up slash.

First of all, Sindel's low fireball goes under Skarlet's dagger. Ermac can threaten Skarlet within TKP's range because TKP is 100% safe versus Skarlet. And Reptile can trade a spit with a dagger provided that he is not full screen away. Sub Zero has no zoning aside from clone, but I am fairly certain he can slide under a dagger.

Skarlet has limited zoning, dude. Do not argue common sense with me.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Dave Only Cares About Zonning, if a Character doesn't Zone it doesnt matter to him

 

[Ninj]

m2dave Eddy Wang SaJa

Can we all stop saying Skarlet's dagger is 2% on first hit?

1) It assumes that a Skarlet player is attempting to zone with standing dagger cancels. This doesn't make sense. Skarlet should be using a standing dagger cancel in order to dash forward into red dash to close distance after a knockdown, probably a F4,3. She loses on too many trades to do this regularly (which isn't to say she can't do this from time to time).
2) Skarlet's air dagger deals 4% damage. Yeah, iaBD's are tougher than Kabal's/Kitana's easymode projectile, but they're still how Skarlet should be zoning.

Ermac can't safely TKP Skarlet if she has meter by the way. If Skarlet reads a TKP coming, she can EX Dash through a max distance TKP.

Skarlet can outzone certain characters if the player behind the character can manage iaBD's. On the list off the top of my head are:
Reptile
Sub Zero
Cyber Sub Zero (obviously)
Ermac
Scorpion (lol)
Nightwolf
Jade
Quan Chi
Rain
Kung Lao maybe...I'm not sure if he loses control of his hat once he's hit. If so, Skarlet might recover fast enough to duck it.
Jax
....

But it's harder for Skarlet to do than other characters. She doesn't excel at zoning and perhaps that's m2dave's point.

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

m2dave Eddy Wang SaJa

Can we all stop saying Skarlet's dagger is 2% on first hit?

It is 2% on first hit and 4% on second hit. That is why on block it is 0% on first block and 1% on second block. Check it in practice mode but i know im right

 

[Ninj]

It is 2% on first hit and 4% on second hit. That is why on block it is 0% on first block and 1% on second block. Check it in practice mode but i know im right

Read the rest of my post

 

[ryublaze]

I'm not against m2dave or anyone but I'll just say that Skarlet doesn't have to zone on the ground. Those 10 frames of recovery mean nothing if a Skarlet player can do iaD consistently. If she gets going with ground daggers then yes the opponent can be locked down where he won't be able to fire a projectile but all the opponent needs is one projectile on the screen and Skarlet will have to stop dagger cancelling. iaD is also harder to land on low hitbox characters like Reptile.

In my opinion, Skarlet's not meant to be a zoner. Her daggers are used as tools more than to zone. Top tier characters don't have to be good zoners. You look at Johnny Cage and he's arguably top 10. He specializes in rushdown, while Kenshi specializes in zoning. Skarlet's a mixture of both except her rushdown/zoning isn't as good as the others. What differentiates her from the rest of the cast is that she can do a little bit of everything: Zone, Rushdown, Mix-ups, Counter-zone, Meter build, etc.

 

[M2Dave]

But it's harder for Skarlet to do than other characters. She doesn't excel at zoning and perhaps that's m2dave's point.

That is my point. Remember that she was arguably a top 3 zoning character pre-patch. Of course, you do not need excellent zoning to be a top tier character, but she does not exactly excel at footsies, rush down, or damage either. The best thing about Skarlet is EX dash and EX dagger, but is that enough to be a top 10 character? I do not think so. I think there are alternative characters who are better and easier to take advantage of (i.e., Sonya).

 

[SaJa]

I think there are alternative characters who are better and easier to take advantage of (i.e., Sonya).

We not saying skarlet is top 1, we saying she can be top tier which means around the top 10. Ofc sonya and some other are better T_T

And I'm not agree with what you said about her tools anyway. imho, skarlet rushdow and damage can be damn good if used at full potential, but right now, this is just the beginning, people just start playing her and still I can see some +42% reset in game.

 

[Ninj]

We not saying skarlet is top 1, we saying she can be top tier which means around the top 10. Ofc sonya and some other are better T_T

And I'm not agree with what you said about her tools anyway. imho, skarlet rushdow and damage can be damn good if used at full potential, but right now, this is just the beginning, people just start playing her and still I can see some +42% reset in game.

This is a fair point, m2dave. No one has yet fleshed out Skarlet like they have Sonya, Jax, Kabal, etc.

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

did this man say her damage, footsies, and rushdown are sub par. She gets the best meterless damage combos midscreen and in the corner. Stand blocking her strings will get you chipped to death plus the ex red dash to blow thru anything to start pressure. 6 frame d1, 7 frame d3, d4 red dash mix ups for her footsie game. Her d3 lowers her hitbox to prevent crossovers. I think she does excel in these departments to keep up with the rest of the cast. she isnt top 10 but very close to it.

 

[Johnny2d]

Sorry guys, I've been busy today, but will start up the Sonya thread with the same intro and fancy graphics I've been using, I'll have it up and ready tomorrow.

 

[Eddy Wang]

That is my point. Remember that she was arguably a top 3 zoning character pre-patch. Of course, you do not need excellent zoning to be a top tier character, but she does not exactly excel at footsies, rush down, or damage either. The best thing about Skarlet is EX dash and EX dagger, but is that enough to be a top 10 character? I do not think so. I think there are alternative characters who are better and easier to take advantage of (i.e., Sonya).

lol Dave, i think what you need is quit freddy for a while and play skarlet for 2 months at least, sometimes you give the idea that you don't know what you're talking about.

If Skarlet footsies weren't that good, she wouldn't have a lot of even matchups.

Skarlet hits you 3 times in a juggle and she already has 30% damage, if she drops a combo or a reset will not hurt her game, her Damage Output is ridiculous, 50% meterless midscreen, 44% meterless resets. if you add a specific block string is + 10% of chip damage.

Ex Dash is only a counter tool, to counter the smallests gaps in this game, you won't be throwing anything around easely, not even ramdomly if you intend her to make her burn the meter, and this goes from Normals to Projectiles, because the only things Ex Dash doesn't beat on a trade is Jade's Glow and X-Rays. And this will open her game.

Ex Daggers are used only after a true Reset, and sometimes to keep you in blockstrings, Skarlets who waste a meter in gimmick block strings are easely readable, and this blows up her game.

Can we all stop saying Skarlet's dagger is 2% on first hit?

I think i've never said that lol

 

[M2Dave]

Eddy Wang, what 50% meterless mid screen combos? Combo videos do not count. LOL. When I see Skarlet players doing 50% combos consistently at tournaments, I will believe the hype. It is true that my knowledge about Skarlet is limited in comparison to players like FLY and Ninj, but I have almost always been realistic about the character ever since the patch. Some of you fools think Skarlet goes even with Kabal, Skarlet can EX dash through every projectile on reaction and punish, Skarlet has very good zoning, etc. Nonsense. She is a very difficult character to use who is not that good in the first place. That is why she is rarely picked at a high level while all other characters have been explored and been more successful, including the DLCs who were released before she was.

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

Eddy Wang, that is why she is rarely picked at a high level while all other characters have been explored and been more successful, including the DLCs who were released before she was.

Skarlet was the very first DLC character then kenshi then rain then freddy. Kenshi and Freddy are you best bet at winning consistently because the way people play the game, they rely heavily on characters the have superior zoning and great rushdown or superior rushdown and superior zoning(Kabal) or an in between those mixes. So really if you want to WIN a tournament you are telling me to pick up either Kabal, Sonya, Kenshi, Jax, Lao, Freddy, and maybe cyrax and smoke with there broken skills. Kitana is viable too. Tbh i dont care for any of those characters i just named. It is all about the experience for me.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Eddy Wang, what 50% meterless mid screen combos? Combo videos do not count. LOL. When I see Skarlet players doing 50% combos consistently at tournaments, I will believe the hype. It is true that my knowledge about Skarlet is limited in comparison to players like FLY and Ninj, but I have almost always been realistic about the character ever since the patch. Some of you fools think Skarlet goes even with Kabal, Skarlet can EX dash through every projectile on reaction and punish, Skarlet has very good zoning, etc. Nonsense. She is a very difficult character to use who is not that good in the first place. That is why she is rarely picked at a high level while all other characters have been explored and been more successful, including the DLCs who were released before she was.

indeed Skarlet doesn't have a good Zoning . Indeed Skarlet is very dificult to use, indeed she can't punish every projectile on reaction, but she can ex Dash Trough every projectile on Reaction.

But believe me, the combo, it can be done, but reseting with a 45% and do +10% on adictional chip damage is way more productive, and the oppponent don't get the rest of the meter for taking damage.

 

[SaJa]

what 50% meterless mid screen combos? Combo videos do not count.

Skarlet makes as much damage as Rain. We just starting to use 42% reset, before we were using 29%, keep in touch.

Some of you fools think Skarlet goes even with Kabal

We saying that skarlet could be one of the worse kabal match up (we meant by that : 5-5 LOL), ofc it is not because skarlet vs kabal could be even that skarlet will steal his throne, we just talking about the match up saying this, not the tier list.

That is why she is rarely picked at a high level while all other characters have been explored

This is because she is the hardest character to play in the whole game (even before kabal I believe, her metagame is harder to get), she is a DLC (all the dlc characters are under played), skarlet is a girl (nerdz would prefer guys), she wasn't in previews mk (fans don't give a fuck).

We needed a precursor to handle her. NinJ came to save us, now you can see the big blood wave coming to you. >)

 

[Ninj]

Eddy Wang, what 50% meterless mid screen combos? Combo videos do not count. LOL. When I see Skarlet players doing 50% combos consistently at tournaments, I will believe the hype. It is true that my knowledge about Skarlet is limited in comparison to players like FLY and Ninj, but I have almost always been realistic about the character ever since the patch. Some of you fools think Skarlet goes even with Kabal, Skarlet can EX dash through every projectile on reaction and punish, Skarlet has very good zoning, etc. Nonsense. She is a very difficult character to use who is not that good in the first place. That is why she is rarely picked at a high level while all other characters have been explored and been more successful, including the DLCs who were released before she was.

I'll be happy to punish you for a 42% reset off of a standing F4 (easiest combo starter) at Evo 46% if I go for damage. Highest punish with jip hit I believe is 51%, 48% if you reset, which is what they're referring to.

You haven't seen it at a tournament because I haven't been to one yet. Be patient, that's all I ask.

That said, I'm not gonna stop this hype train from building up speed

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