Match-up Discussion Skarlet vs. Freddy

[Johnny2d]

~ This is part 3 in a series of community discussions on specific matchups for Skarlet. Our goal is to pool our information and opinions together on specific matchups, in an attempt to find any sort of advantage that Skarlet can achieve in these matchups. Hopefully with our knowledge combined, we can take Skarlet to another level of SMART play.

~ The rules are simple, NO FLAMING each other, and NO CRYING FOR BUFFS OR NERFS, for Skarlet or for the opposing character. We are discussing the game at hand, not attempting to change it. All players are welcome and all opinions are valid, as long as they are in service to helping each other get better in the specific matchup that we are discussing. We will discuss one opposing character at a time, and we will give each discussion a week before we move on so we can truly dig deep. If you have a suggestion for the following weeks opposing character, feel free to mention it, then we will vote, and introduce that character the following week.

GoGoGo:

Here is the Freddy guide by m2dave http://testyourmight.com/threads/the-freddy-strategy-guide.12875/

And the Freddy Frame Data by Somberness http://testyourmight.com/threads/freddy-krueger-frame-data.8963/

 

[Johnny2d]

OSpliffySmitheeyO, I think I beat your Skarlet once, but have been free against your Freddy. I'd love to get your take on this matchup since you seem to play both. Also if you are on xbl this week, I'd love to get some Skarlet v Freddy matches in, even if I stay free lol.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I'll let Dave go first!

 

[Johnny2d]

DarKNaTaS, you've got one of the best Freddy's I've played against (on xbl), and very entertaining to watch (on vsm). Any thoughts on the Skarlet Freddy match would be much appreciated

 

[M2Dave]

In the Freddy match up, Skarlet is essentially an inferior Kabal, whom Freddy fights better than almost 90% of the characters in the game. Therefore, Skarlet cannot beat Freddy. I believe the match up is either even or in Freddy's favor. Let me explain.

- Freddy has complete control of the match 3/4ths of the screen away or further. Skarlet cannot build meter at a distance because spikes go under all daggers. Kabal, by comparison, can at least perform occasional iaGBs and buzzsaws to build meter.

- Can Skarlet get in? Certainly. I refuse to discuss Skarlet's teleport because it is by far the worst teleport in the game. However, EX dash is a legitimate option for closing the gap. But she needs meter for EX dash. Even if she has meter, she must guess between at least four different options at mid range.

1) glove toss
2) mid spike
3) NMS xx glove toss
4) NMS xx mid spike

If you perform EX dash xx upslash or downslash at the wrong time, you get punished. In comparison, Kabal can cancel his EX dash at any time to avoid punishment.

- Even when Skarlet is in, she needs to be very close to Freddy and have access to meter to take advantage of her frame traps. In comparison, Kabal's f+3 has more range than any of Skarlet's normal attacks and can be used to start his frame traps. Also, Kabal does not need any meter to put Freddy into the easiest and silliest frame traps you will see in any modern fighting game. More or less, Kabal's 2 xx NDC does what Skarlet's 1,1,4 xx EX dagger cancel does, but Kabal requires no meter to put himself at absurd block advantages.

Vip3r probably loses because he plays an offensive style Freddy. But there is no need to play that style versus Skarlet when Freddy has tremendous zoning advantages.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Dave, Skarlet F4 has more range than any Kabal String, dat shit hits almost in a dash distance

 

[SaJa]

No Freddy in europ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[OSpliffySmitheeyO]

OSpliffySmitheeyO, I think I beat your Skarlet once, but have been free against your Freddy. I'd love to get your take on this matchup since you seem to play both. Also if you are on xbl this week, I'd love to get some Skarlet v Freddy matches in, even if I stay free lol.

1) Love your Skar, and shes def NOT free - so would be happy to play a series with you
And 2) I Agree with m2dave he basicly said what i was going to say, only better. lol

 

[OSpliffySmitheeyO]

No Freddy in europ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Im from the UK.

 

[AK Vip3r]

I actually very rarely lose to skarlet. Fly and Scar are the only players to actually win matches against me. A lot of it was due to inexperience in the match-up and not aware of all her dagger tricks. I would def say it is even though because freddy struggles once she starts those ghetto strings on freddys huge crouching hitbox. One thing that keeps it even for Skarlet is her ability to safely Air Dagger her way in. A well timed air dagger cant be punished, at least from my hefty experience from playing fly. Thats my 2 cents but I def feel it is even.

Also, L0rdoftheFLY STOP HAVING CONTROLLER ISSUES NOOOOB.

 

[M2Dave]

One thing that keeps it even for Skarlet is her ability to safely Air Dagger her way in.

Which aerial dagger? The horizontal or the diagonal one? I see no reason why either should not be punishable as she is dropping on the ground. Even Kabal's aerial gas blast can be whiff punished.

 

[AK Vip3r]

Which aerial dagger? The horizontal or the diagonal one? I see no reason why either should not be punishable as she is dropping on the ground. Even Kabal's aerial gas blast can be whiff punished.

depending on distance from which the diagonal one is launched, the dagger will hit you before you could even attempt a ground claw.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

She needs meter to win yet she doesn't need meter to make Freddy's life hard.

She can't be zoned by if she has meter because no matter what projectile or claw you do, no matter if you use falling snot or ex claw...as soon as you go into NMS she is in. Freddy controls the ground very well but in this match she controls the air. Her down dagger is the bain of Freddy's existence. Forcing him to teleport instead of AA or throw claws. If she lands one combo into reset she gets a guaranteed 10% in chip for the cost of 25% of a bar (she builds 75% of the bar back in black string). If Freddy doesn't block the slide that 10% becomes 16%. This is because her best block string doesn't wiff on Freddy's large hitbox.

So I use a 42% reset off of a f4 but off a naked ex red dash down slash I think 38% is most reliable combo.
38% + 16% = 54%

I went ahead and added the slide in because for an extra bar you back into it again and are forced to breaker.

In the end down dagger is greater than Freddy's ability to zone. Even on block the down dagger can't be punished. She gets in much easier than you think without meter but with meter Freddy can't do anything to keep her out.

She builds meter by resets into naked red dash guesses for more chip and meter. Blocked slides. Air daggers both down and far. She can bide her time with down daggers and red dash slides until she has meter. Even if she takes damage to build meter, her comeback factor is ten times greater than Freddy's. With a little meter this A tier character is on Par with kabal(with meter)

If played right, Freddy can't throw anything without getting down/up slashed for 35-45% plus chip/frame traps. She can be down 90% to 10% and still come back to win when she pulls a quan chi on your ass.

 

[DarKNaTaS]

Not much for me to say other then skarlet can be cheap as fuck. skarlet got a damn dagger cancel rune trap that can go up to 5 bars before u can do shit to her. but as of now after playing some good skarlet players the match is starting to look pretty even with freddy.

 

[M2Dave]

If played right, Freddy can't throw anything without getting down/up slashed for 35-45% plus chip/frame traps. She can be down 90% to 10% and still come back to win when she pulls a quan chi on your ass.

You and Ninj live in this imaginary world where Skarlet is just as good as Kabal. Coming into this thread, I knew that I was going to have to try very hard to convince you of anything at all. I have listed four options that no Skarlet player can possibly react to at mid range.

1) glove toss
2) mid spike
3) NMS xx glove toss
4) NMS xx mid spike

I should not have to explain why you cannot humanly react to a projectile that "instantly" comes out of the ground. Yet you say you can react to these options, especially the first two? I say you are a fool. As long as the Freddy player is standing at the correct distance, you are never able to react to all these options and punish each on reaction. It is just not humanly possible. Yes, you can make a correct read, juggle me, and perhaps win the round. On the other hand, I can bait your EX dash xx up and down slash, block, and punish you with a 45% damaging combo, sending you full screen away.

You need to understand that Kabal's EX dash is better than Skarlet's EX dash. He can dash and stop at any moment. Skarlet cannot. She has to commit to up and down slash. If the best Kabal players cannot react to Freddy's mid range zoning game, what makes you think you can with Skarlet?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

You and Ninj live in this imaginary world where Skarlet is just as good as Kabal. Coming into this thread, I knew that I was going to have to try very hard to convince you of anything at all. I have listed four options that no Skarlet player can possibly react to at mid range.

1) glove toss
2) mid spike
3) NMS xx glove toss
4) NMS xx mid spike

I should not have to explain why you cannot humanly react to a projectile that "instantly" comes out of the ground. Yet you say you can react to these options, especially the first two? I say you are a fool. As long as the Freddy player is standing at the correct distance, you are never able to react to all these options and punish each on reaction. It is just not humanly possible. Yes, you can make a correct read, juggle me, and perhaps win the round. On the other hand, I can bait your EX dash xx up and down slash, block, and punish you with a 45% damaging combo, sending you full screen away.

You need to understand that Kabal's EX dash is better than Skarlet's EX dash. He can dash and stop at any moment. Skarlet cannot. She has to commit to up and down slash. If the best Kabal players cannot react to Freddy's mid range zoning game, what makes you think you can with Skarlet?

By trying to poke a hole in this one statement you misreadit entirely. He can't throw anything meaning a glove toss or Freddy fingers. And in my head I am also reacting to NMS. If I can react and reflect with NW from mid screen I can eh red dash through it. Plain and simple.

Ground claws can't be reacted to. But by staying airborne it's not the greatest risk. The down dagger on block is safe and air daggers can also be used on reaction to ground claws to delay her descent making it less of an issue (but still an issue).

We can use kabal as an example if you want to but from this moment on I'm fine leaving examples with kabal out of this thread. I'm strictly looking at HER tools.

 

[ryublaze]

I don't have any opinion on who wins this MU but I guess I can contribute a bit.

Down Dagger may be safe on block but she has to jump before doing so and she can be hit in the process. If he tries to anti-air a jump-in she can bait it and you get hit by the dagger so she moves in for blockstrings. If he blocks she's at disadvantage and can possibly be anti-aired depending on height.

Skarlet does not have to commit to an Up Slash/Down Slash after an EX Red Dash. She can do an empty one and if your opponent is expecting a slash she can start blockstrings.

And idk if Freddy has armor or not but if he doesn't then that makes it more difficult for him to escape from her pressure. He also isn't a low hitbox character like LotF said.

 

[Eddy Wang]

You need to understand that Kabal's EX dash is better than Skarlet's EX dash. He can dash and stop at any moment. Skarlet cannot. She has to commit to up and down slash. If the best Kabal players cannot react to Freddy's mid range zoning game, what makes you think you can with Skarlet?

This is not entirely True, Skarlet still has armor when the dash ends, i don't understand why everyone thinks that if i Ex Red Dash i have to use a slash or slide if i know you saw it comming you'll eventually block it, that is why you can get jailed into another block string wich gives her meter back.
Also, the slide from that distance gets safe and you can't do nothing again.

Kabal don't react on first place because his armor doesn't last the entire NDC, its only on startup, wich makes it poor against Skarlet armor, that will last until she forward dash if nothing hits her twice in the way.

 

[Johnny2d]

Down Dagger may be safe on block but she has to jump before doing so and she can be hit in the process. If he tries to anti-air a jump-in she can bait it and you get hit by the dagger so she moves in for blockstrings. If he blocks she's at disadvantage and can possibly be anti-aired depending on height.

Skarlet does not have to commit to an Up Slash/Down Slash after an EX Red Dash. She can do an empty one and if your opponent is expecting a slash she can start blockstrings.

And idk if Freddy has armor or not but if he doesn't then that makes it more difficult for him to escape from her pressure. He also isn't a low hitbox character like LotF said.

I played OSpliffySmitheeyO in player matches and went about 50/50 against his freddy. I feel that each of RedRaptor10 points are valid and important in this matchup. I think Skarlet has to be clever about how she gets in. Everyone will expect her to use En Dash to go through projectiles, but she also has to dash block, and place some good jumps on him. Out of an En Dash she has to recognize their patterns and if you read block, pressure or throw can work well.

Also, if he tries to anti air you alot, she has options too, like teleport.

 

[OSpliffySmitheeyO]

I played OSpliffySmitheeyO in player matches and went about 50/50 against his freddy. I feel that each of RedRaptor10 points are valid and important in this matchup. I think Skarlet has to be clever about how she gets in. Everyone will expect her to use En Dash to go through projectiles, but she also has to dash block, and place some good jumps on him. Out of an En Dash she has to recognize their patterns and if you read block, pressure or throw can work well.

Also, if he tries to anti air you alot, she has options too, like teleport.

50/50 my ass.. you were so free its unreal. #yolo

 

[Johnny2d]

Skarlet has to be smart after she jumps at freddy.

~She can use straight dagger or down dagger after the jump to delay her decent back to the ground the same way Akuma can in Sf4 (Use this to avoid landing on a glove or spike).

~If she has a read that for sure the Freddy is throwing a glove or doing nms shenanigans, she can teleport and hit him for sure. I agree with Dave that Skarlet's tele is probably the worst in the game, and it is really really bad against some characters, however Freddy is not one of them. Her tele hits freddy from any of his projectiles.

~Tele can't be the go to tactic or it will be baited and punished hard, however, with mixed up tele, down daggers, and straight daggers, she sets up chances to do a regular jump in, or regular dash in for footsies pressure.

~Dagger cancels act as quick pokes from any distance. If traded with freddy projectiles they lose because damage isn't even close, and freddy options from both hit and blocked projectiles are very strong, however Skarlet WILL have times where she can get a dagger in. She can't go fireball to fireball with him but there will be shots to use the daggers as harrassing pokes. If it hits or is blocked, she has already canceled and is now dashing to get closer, red dashing for slide or En downslash or empty dash mixups, or jumping for instant air dagger, or down dagger. Occasional harrassment from dagger cancels creates space for Skarlet to move in.

The point is that she has more tools than just En Dash to get in, and it is CRUCIAL that she uses all of them to keep him guessing.

 

[Johnny2d]

50/50 my ass.. you were so free its unreal. #yolo

Last time we played a week or two ago I was free. Yesterday it was 50/50 Skarlet Freddy, knowledge is power

Get babied, then back to maining kano bro #yolo

 

[Johnny2d]

This is not entirely True, Skarlet still has armor when the dash ends, i don't understand why everyone thinks that if i Ex Red Dash i have to use a slash or slide.

It might end up being the case that En Dash gets used for empty dash confusion. In Sf4 I would use Ex empty devils reverse with Bison. It wasted a bar of meter but when people see you burn the meter, they expect you to go for big damage, opponents were conditioned to see the 'Ex Flash' and expect head stomp so I would just land and pressure or throw, it worked like a charm. This could be a nice mind game. Like most of Skarlet's tools, this can't really be a staple tactic, its gotta be mixed in with the rest of her bag of tricks.

 

[OSpliffySmitheeyO]

Last time we played a week or two ago I was free. Yesterday it was 50/50 Skarlet Freddy, knowledge is power

Get babied, then back to maining kano bro #yolo

Kitana, Mother of the year? :O And we had this talk last night bro, Kanoob eye lazerz S++++
- But not to actually derail this thread.. lol, I found it hard to get skarlet off me when she got her momentum going. maybe thats the key in this match.

 

[Ninj]

m2dave I'm not sure yet if Skarlet is on par with Kabal - I have yet to play any strong Kabal players. I think the more important question is: who is on par with REO? Hopefully I can test my mettle against Reo at Evo.

I've also never fought a great Freddy player. Tool vs Tool I think it's safe to say this matchup is heavy on skill - player reads, reaction times, ability to pull off combos. Skarlet does have an advantage in that her most powerful normals 1, 2, and F4, are generally faster than Freddy's, but Freddy's EX teleport has invincibility frames if I'm not mistaken. So if Skarlet has meter, she can trap Freddy, but if Freddy has meter, he can escape. A throw can still connect during invincibility frames in a teleport but that's general knowledge.

In Combo damage conparisons, I believe Skarlet hits harder as well as resets which is an advantage, but last I checkeda Freddy does pack a punch in his combos, unlike Kabal where you're usually tickled for 25-30%. Freddy hits 35-40% fairly easily I believe and can put you at full distance where, m2dave is correct, Skarlet struggles vs this character since she can't outzone him and can't just ex dash up on reaction.

It's a tough call who wins the matchup, but that's not directly what this thread is about. I think it comes down to skill on both sides - Freddy needs to be able to punish as hard as he can when he gets an opening and outzone her the rest of the time. Skarlet needs to read Freddy well and catch him due to his teleport, and once she does, she must be able to pull off her most damaging resets and keep him locked down with mind games through frame traps or baiting the teleport and being ahead of it.

Thoughts/criticisms welcome as always.

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