General discussion Tech/Strategy/Questions

[SunnyD]

And I guess you never learn. It's always me you tend to pick fights with (and others too). You could have easily responded to my post without putting me down or making me look like an idiot. You could have not started a ruckus about me making front page with Skarlet. You could just well maybe ignore me but you always seem to be the one to start something. I ask again, please stop.

Im sorry what?? Did you just ask him to please stop embarrassing you cause he's pointing out the fact that you were wrong? Disagree all you want but asking someone else to stop pointing out flaws in your argument is laughable at best. Yeah, Altaire can be abrasive but it's the goddamn internet, grow a pair, suck it up, and find a rational, conclusive counter-argument rather than whatever the hell that little tidbit up there was.

 

[ryublaze]

Im sorry what?? Did you just ask him to please stop embarrassing you cause he's pointing out the fact that you were wrong? Disagree all you want but asking someone else to stop pointing out flaws in your argument is laughable at best. Yeah, Altaire can be abrasive but it's the goddamn internet, grow a pair, suck it up, and find a rational, conclusive counter-argument rather than whatever the hell that little tidbit up there was.

You must be Altaire's friend. Hi.

You probably agree with everything Altaire says, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I already explained my reasons, just not as long as his.

Btw, if you can't contribute to the debate then stay out of this. Otherwise I see you as just a person who wants to make personal attacks on the internet.

 

[Enenra]

Woah, what did my thread turn into?

 

[GNG Iniquity]

And this completes another novel by Altaire.

Hey, this essay was actually worth reading and factual. He's right. Scorpion has no effective means of keep away...NRS shouldn't have made his pokes so colossally failsauce but they did. I guess they figured he deserves shitty pokes due to his horribly punishable vortex?

Makes no sense to me, but hey, neither did the inability to fix Smoke and Cyrax. Also, SPECIAL FORCES FUCK YEAH!

 

[Scoot Magee]

Scorpion can somewhat keep people out for like a few seconds but he has to do something to start pressure. Down 4 isn't great but with the take down you can check people to keep blocking after a down 4. Really that is the only thing scorpion has for footsies. He has his b2 and f4 also but both are slower than other characters footsie tools and very punishable. Scorpion is nothing but a bunch of calculated risks, it's all he has.

About the take down, its -4 but can set you up for a counter with armor depending on what the other player likes to do after blocking it. It's not that bad of a situation for scorpion but he does have to use some meter. EX spear can beat a lot of poke attempts like certain characters d1's/d'3s, pretty much any standing normals if they try to start pressure and all throws (I updated the EX spear vs neutral crouch thread with a list of crouching normals that lose to it). I didn't test vs specials but I will eventually. EX take down is a safer option and resets the match. It's a good way to check people so they don't press buttons after a blocked take down and you can continue pressure. You have to have a read on the player because so many things can happen.

They do have options to obviously blow you up if you throw out a bad spear or take down (like jump and counter armor) but imo it's all part of scorpions game. In a lot of match ups you're forced to take risks if you want to win.

I'm a little all over the place and not as in depth as I'd like to be but if anyone wants to pick my post apart feel free. I'll try to answer everything the best I can.

 

[Theme]

Woah, what did my thread turn into?

The children are fighting, its childs play, its kind of entertaining... But they both did explain what they think and why, so read up on those essays those 2 have written up, it might help your question. I didnt care to read it, so I skipped down to where the good stuff was.

 

[SunnyD]

You must be Altaire's friend. Hi.

You probably agree with everything Altaire says, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I already explained my reasons, just not as long as his.

Btw, if you can't contribute to the debate then stay out of this. Otherwise I see you as just a person who wants to make personal attacks on the internet.

I replyed because i disagreed with you. Im not Altaire's friend, i dont know the guy irl, but from the posts i've seen his views generally coincide with mine. Not always, but most of the time. And it wasnt "personal", you said something dumb and i pointed it out.

But you're right, i should contribute. Scorpion cant really play run-away that well, i find. Scorp's whole playstyle is centered around his vortex, mixups and pressure. Although he doesnt excel in pressure he has a great ability to stay in your face after combos with his vortex and the ability to start his combos one right after the next. Running away as Scorpion really doesnt play to his tools, at full screen he cant do much, spears are easy to block or dodge and hellfires arent much to fear. If you honestly want to play a runaway character, my suggestion would be Kitana. She can toss fans all day and ass lift her way out of the corner.

 

[ryublaze]

I replyed because i disagreed with you. Im not Altaire's friend, i dont know the guy irl, but from the posts i've seen his views generally coincide with mine. Not always, but most of the time. And it wasnt "personal", you said something dumb and i pointed it out.

But you're right, i should contribute. Scorpion cant really play run-away that well, i find. Scorp's whole playstyle is centered around his vortex, mixups and pressure. Although he doesnt excel in pressure he has a great ability to stay in your face after combos with his vortex and the ability to start his combos one right after the next. Running away as Scorpion really doesnt play to his tools, at full screen he cant do much, spears are easy to block or dodge and hellfires arent much to fear. If you honestly want to play a runaway character, my suggestion would be Kitana. She can toss fans all day and ass lift her way out of the corner.

I said what most of the community has been saying to him for a long time now. If you're (not you) going to disagree with someone, do it without sounding like a douchebag. Telling someone what they posted was "dumb" doesn't help either.

I do agree that Scorpion is best played as an offensive character, but as I was saying before he can be played defensively as well. Not the whole match, but in certain situations and matchups. I already stated which ones in my previous posts.

 

[aj1701]

Can you? Sure. It's not going to work though.

This. This dude sinwatcher tries this. Its tough to deal with at first, but now I can just blow him up.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Sub-Zero's one of the characters where you don't need a D4. D4 actually can backfire if you hit a clone.

I had to stop reading and respond to this. This info is wrong. Scorpion needs d+4 in every match I can think of. so if sub is advancing on you and not jumping what do you do?

 

[Rampage254]

Woah, what did my thread turn into?

It happens when RedRaptor10 and Altaire are in the same thread. There's no way to avoid it.

 

[aj1701]

It happens when RedRaptor10 and Altaire are in the same thread. There's no way to avoid it.

I'm not sure reds presence makes a difference.

 

[Rampage254]

I'm not sure reds presence makes a difference.

.....You're right lol. Well, wherever Altaire post, there's bound to be an argument.

 

[ryublaze]

I had to stop reading and respond to this. This info is wrong. Scorpion needs d+4 in every match I can think of. so if sub is advancing on you and not jumping what do you do?

You can block or whiff punish it. IMO Sub's D4 gives Scorpion trouble. Like I said, one wrong D4 and you'll hit an Ice Clone. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Sub's D4 beats Scorpion's D4.

 

[Scoot Magee]

You can block or whiff punish it. IMO Sub's D4 gives Scorpion trouble. Like I said, one wrong D4 and you'll hit an Ice Clone.

Block or whiff punish what with what? Subs d4 does give scorpion trouble but scorps d+4 is the only thing he has to fight it. Sure you can use b2 or something but it's a guess and not a whiff punish.

 

[x18x2xwildx]

I enjoy how Altaire makes fun of grammatical errors, and yet, has a glaring error in his own post. Please make sure your posts are PERFECT before judging someone else's bud.

 

[ryublaze]

Block or whiff punish what with what? Subs d4 does give scorpion trouble but scorps d+4 is the only thing he has to fight it. Sure you can use b2 or something but it's a guess and not a whiff punish.

B2 might work but you'd probably be out of range if Sub whiffs his D4. Sub's D4's duration is 34 frames so you should be able to hellfire him (22 frames) before he can do anything and I doubt Sub will be jumping from that distance.

 

[Espio]

I don't know much about Scorpion, I played him for a bit when the game came out, but I do know that it's a good way to keep the opponent on his/her toes, especially if you can frustrate them into jumping and start up your anti-air spear shenanigans.

You can play runaway or rushdown with any character, but of course it's more effective when it's geared more towards a certain style.

 

[Theme]

This. This dude sinwatcher tries this. Its tough to deal with at first, but now I can just blow him up.

Dude I just played a SinWatcher today... he sucked. I beat him down with Cyrax and he left first round, then proceed to try and call me out in the chat room: "THANKS FOR THE WIN, NEXT LOSER PLEASE" etc. Im sitting there flabbergasted... I was so confused, I actually thought I did lose to him... then another guy told him to "stfu because he left too" lol

 

[TheChad_87]

I thought I felt a crimp in my umbilical cord! ^_^

Seriously guys, can we not disagree with one another without being total asshats? Holy Jesus H tap-dancing Christ on a cracker, disagreements about MK seem to turn into thrown gauntlets around here.

 

[Scoot Magee]

B2 might work but you'd probably be out of range if Sub whiffs his D4. Sub's D4's duration is 34 frames so you should be able to hellfire him (22 frames) before he can do anything and I doubt Sub will be jumping from that distance.

I actually think b2 is a bad idea, that's why i stated it would be a guess. Also in order for a good sub to whiff d+4 you would have to move out of it's range at the last second which leaves you less time to hellfire. I think d+4 is his best option. Btw if you can whiff punish d+4 wth hellfire you're better off trying to dash in 33 or d+4 on a whiffed d+4.

 

[ryublaze]

I actually think b2 is a bad idea, that's why i stated it would be a guess. Also in order for a good sub to whiff d+4 you would have to move out of it's range at the last second which leaves you less time to hellfire. I think d+4 is his best option. Btw if you can whiff punish d+4 wth hellfire you're better off trying to dash in 33 or d+4 on a whiffed d+4.

You probably are right but everything being said in this thread is mostly theory. I just know from past experiences that Ice Clone can stop Scorpion's D4 if he's not careful, and I'd rather not take that risk (I play a rather safe Scorpion).

 

[Saint]

Personally I view Scorpion like Street Fighters Akuma - He's a technical character with an answer for almost every situation but requires extremelly high precision. If you fuck up, you will get fucked up. If you pull stuff off, he's a powerhouse.

 

[Dark_Rob]

You probably are right but everything being said in this thread is mostly theory. I just know from past experiences that Ice Clone can stop Scorpion's D4 if he's not careful, and I'd rather not take that risk (I play a rather safe Scorpion).

It can. But Subs ice clone is sketchy when it comes to proximity. Sometimes it will come out and other times it wont. Its not supposed to have any proximity on low kick pokes but sometimes it still shatters, especially on dash in pokes.
Also Scoot Magee and I have fought approximately 2,376,378 Sub zero vs Scorpion matches in the past month. He knows the Sub matchup very well. Hes definitely not theory fighting.

 

[Slips]

Playing runaway Scorpion is easy if your playing someone who doesn't know how to play against Scorpion or if your playing an idiot.

At FR I lost to almost every Smoke player, every Cage player (badly), and a rushdown Cyrax player. Meanwhile, I beat some of the best Kenshi and Kabal players in the country who insisted they could zone Scorpion.

Scorp has some of the worst footsie in the game. When people start playing into this deadzone he has its extremely difficult.

I'm trying to work on this, but I don't know if he has enough tools. A d4 with no advantage on hit and a d3 that -7 on hit coupled with no extraordinary normals means he's got next to nothing to work with when it comes to keeping people out.. Time will tell.