MK9: Unofficial Tier List Speculation, and/or Character Shenanigans Discussion!

[R.E.L.]

I really hope this "tier" thread stops complaining about OP characters. Granted, there are some things that need to be adjusted (block infinites etc) but NRS shouldn't be nerfing everyone. Instead of complaining about how Kung Lao is so good, where is the complaints of the low-tiers not getting buffs? I don't know about you guys, but I think Baraka should get some love.

NRS, if you are reading, please make the characters with bad specials better? K thnx.

 

[oZii]

Reptile still GDLK

:irishjig:

 

[cyke_out]

So "post patch" tier should mostly look like this:

S tier: Johnny Cage, Sub-Zero, Raiden, Kung Lao, Nightwolf, Reptile

A tier: Kitana, Cyber-Sub, Ermac, Mileena, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Kano, Kabal, Sonya, Shang Tsung

B tier: Cyrax, Jade, Stryker, Smoke, Noob Saibot, Sektor, Sindel

C tier: Jax, Quan Chi, Baraka, Sheeva

I'm assuming the characters within each tier aren't in any order, and if so I don't see anything I disagree with.

What I'd really like to see if a true match-up chart. I feel like this game is going to be heavily match-up based with some characters having an easier or harder time vs another character.

for instance, Tom Brady said that Raiden is top tier, but that Kano has a good match-up vs Raiden becuase if Raiden teleports on reaction to a knife throw, Kano can recover fast enough to block or even up-ball and hit Raiden before he does anything. Is that a 6/4 match in favor of Kano?

simply becuase a character is in a higher tier, doesn't mean a lower tiered character can't have an advantage match-up.

Of course a match-up chart is even more time comsuming and requires more than 3 weeks of play time to create.

 

[THTB]

No, Reptile is ass. People just go easy on me.

 

[cyke_out]

smoke getting punked out by kano :throwcomputer:

edit: kano still wont have the tools that smoke does SHAKE AND BAKE!

And this is what I'm talking about. Simply becuase Kano is a higher tier, doesn't mean smoke won't have an advantage vs him.

But I don't know this match-up too well, it could be 6/4 in favor of smoke, or it could be 5/5. I need to see if Kano can recover from a knife throw and block smokes shake counter, cuz if so that will put a damper of smoke's full screen control.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

What I'd really like to see if a true match-up chart..

Yeah everyone would like that like the SSF4 tier list.

But that sort of things takes a lot of time to do. The game is new and we haven't had a lot of tournament results yet to even start making that kind of chart imo. I mean how can we possibly say for sure that Reptile vs Kano is 6-4 if we only have like 1 match of reference? Played by two players that didn't even know how to handle the matchup anyway.

 

[cyke_out]

Yeah everyone would like that like the SSF4 tier list.

But that sort of things takes a lot of time to do. The game is new and we haven't had a lot of tournament results yet to even start making that kind of chart imo. I mean how can we possibly say for sure that Reptile vs Kano is 6-4 if we only have like 1 match of reference? Played by two players that didn't even knew how to handle the matchup anyway.

No, I understand, it does take alot of experience and knowledge, but it's a good goal that I would like to see accomplished.

 

[oZii]

I really hope this "tier" thread stops complaining about OP characters. Granted, there are some things that need to be adjusted (block infinites etc) but NRS shouldn't be nerfing everyone. Instead of complaining about how Kung Lao is so good, where is the complaints of the low-tiers not getting buffs? I don't know about you guys, but I think Baraka should get some love.

NRS, if you are reading, please make the characters with bad specials better? K thnx.

Dookie again wrote this nice long detailed on his character Stryker its on page 14. You can find alot of posts about the lower tier characters before page 7 and after page 7 (when it got on kung lao) other characters are discussed also in between page 7 and up to your response to include baraka who has been brought up several times. Just all the attention was focused on Kung lao because things got personal and out of hand. Todays Kung Lao discussion is reasonable and done pretty much you can start at where I posted the video that Digi posted. Me and AC discussed it now we have moved on to Tiers now.

Spoiler

So since we were going to start talking about mid tier characters, I'd like to start talking about my favorite mall kop. So I'm going to break this down into strengths and weaknesses as I see them. Feel free to add anything if you know something I don't. Stryker doesn't seem like a very explored character as of yet, and the only pro I know of trying him is OnlineTony, and he hasn't been on stream yet. (Guess he didn't make top 8 at WNF. )

Pros:

Gunshot- Can be delayed, can be faked, start-up is meh, but it's instant once it's out. Does two hits so beats some armor. Works as a long range anti-air. Pretty much the core of his offense.

Decent damage at mid screen, netting 34% plus a reset or 37-39% Also by switching his combo ender between roll and he can move you forwards or backwards toward the corner.

Good corner damage off both high and low combo starters, (45%) his overhead is good in the corner, can anti-air a jump attempt out of the corner to about 35-40% depending on ex.

Can use to gunshot as a midscreen reset that you can't wake up from. Gunshot can be fired, or canceled into dash for throw/sweep mixup, or jump for crossup punch mixup. Not perfectly safe but good anyway.

Long range poke/anti-air in causes a weird semi-stagger that you can fake gunshot/dash after. Not long enough for a safe jump, but good for a quick high/low/throw mixup and reset-ing distance. If it hits as an anti-air, nets 18% or 25% for 1 meter. Can be followed by a full combo if anti-airing the opponent into a corner.

Fast sweep and fast uppercut.

Cons:

Slow normals/chains- Nothing except comes out quick. His while it could be a good poke takes so long to get to active frames that it's ridiculous. is a super obvious overhead that he can be punished out of on block. He can't follow his , with anything. In fact his only two chains that lead to real damage are only useful as obvious punishes or after a jumping punch.

Zoning- His gunshot and grenades can be ducked. They're unsafe from midscreen, especially on whiff. The grenades are finicky and take forever to get out on screen. Teleporters can basically devastate him on reaction, and while you can fake gunshot to try and bait things the fact that you cannot block until you complete a full dash animation means that fast teleports like Raiden's still go through and he can still punish you. Also he can't keep up in a zoning war against noob. He will trade badly with clones no matter which projectile he uses, and without a teleport, and with his fast special (roll) causing them to be far, he can't even really stay on him. Worse unlike other zoning heavy characters, none of his projectiles knock down, so approaching him is much easier than approaching Noob or Shang. Also his projectiles never lead to more than 9% damage, so unlike Reptile/Shang/Ermac/Smoke, your opponent isn't afraid of being scooped into huge damage.

Bad punishes- For many things with tight punishment windows like Kung Lao's spin, his best punish is dash up for 8% damage. It makes it completely worth risking things like spin/superman/shadow kick on him because his punishment is insubstantial.

Situational AA- For as much as I like as an anti-air it isn't nearly as fool proof as something like up-clone or tele push. It has to be done early, it has a long window of vulnerability before active frames and even done perfectly often trades with jumping kicks. It nets him good damage, but still less than some characters, and at closer ranges he has to fall back on uppercut.

Nothing exceptional- Stryker can win, but I feel like all his tools are replicated elsewhere more effectively. He basically falls back on the basic guessing game to win. I don't feel like I'm playing the strengths of the character as much as the engine. Especially with how easily his zoning breaks down in certain matchups and the weird almost buglike issue with his fake gunshot cancel being unsafe for so long, it's hard to see how he is really supposed to be used.

Worst matchups- Hard to say since I haven't played a ton, but Noob is stupendously hard, as is Ermac, anyone who forces you to approach really, his block dash isn't super fast, so he has to block a lot on his way in, and his combo enders/specials tend to create distance. Kung Lao, since he isn't afraid of spinning you. His teleport mixup is brutal on your zoning attempts, and your anti-projectile special (roll) doesn't work against ground hat. Raiden- Honestly it feels almost unwinnable, his teleport beats everything you have for free. At the right distance you can't punish superman for any damage. His chains come out faster than anything you have. You can't ever whiff an attack against him. It's just bad.

Also I haven't played a good one since PowerUp but I feel like Reptile is probably a bad match too. If your zoning trades he wins because he gets a full combo. Plus he gets most of his good damage opportunities from crossup jumpin punch which Reptile gets out of for free. Also reptile doesn't approach much by jumping, so you can't expect to pick up anti-air damage either.

I have a feeling Smoke/Shang are probably bad matchups too if only because trading projectiles against them costs you so much.

had to put some spoilers on that thing he got pretty indepth with his break down.

 

[oZii]

Patch won't change much except for a few unfortunate characters. Kung Lao will still be strong despite his damage nerf.

Cyrax, depends if he loses both his resets and bomb trap, then it might really hurt him.

According to Tom, Sonya was S tier because of her stance trap (infinite safe jail strings and 50/50s). But that will be (or has been) removed for sure, so she'll end up A I think.

Ermac and Smoke got nerfed a bit. Not sure how this will affect them but they also shouldn't move too much. But to me Ermac and Cyber Sub were borderline S pre-patch.

Also, we're not talking much about her, but Sindel got hurt bad imo. She can't even combo into scream anymore (not even in the corner). And she already wasn't that great pre-patch so.. meh. She's still a great zoner but she doesn't have much else tbh.

My understanding is that the smoke bomb OTG would be changed or removed you think that drops him that much?

 

[Vulcan Hades]

To be honest I was never really impressed by Smoke. Then again it's true I've never played a half decent Smoke player. Just noobs that use him and spam teleport.

But I just don't see why he would be any better than Scorpion or Noob.

I'd love to see a good Smoke player in action though. So if you have a video link to some high level Smoke stuff I'd like to see it. Same with Sindel and Shang Tsung, I'd love to see high level players show how good these characters can be.

 

[Arcade-Fever]

smoke getting punked out by kano :throwcomputer:

edit: kano still wont have the tools that smoke does SHAKE AND BAKE!

What is he gonna do? :en Shake my Balls all day?

But seriously, I doubt a decent Kano would be so stupid to spam knifes against smoke over an over, most likely it would be a game of hard punishment tactics and Kano is definitively not a pushover in that area.

 

[MKF30]

Anyone know what Ermac's tweaks are? I'm guessing just damage % reduction?

 

[Luxus Nights]

Actually Im starting to see Shang being somewhere A+ tier rather then A like I originally thought.

 

[oZii]

To be honest I was never really impressed by Smoke. Then again it's true I've never played a half decent Smoke player. Just noobs that use him and spam teleport.

But I just don't see why he would be any better than Scorpion or Noob.

I'd love to see a high level Smoke player in action though. So if you have a video link to some high level Smoke stuff I'd like to see it. Same with Sindel and Shang Tsung, I'd love to see high level players show how good these characters can be.

There are some matches with Aris using Smoke at the IE casuals mmm there is some floating around I know Aris uses him pretty well. Let me go see what I can dig up

Edit: Smoke as Played by Aris

Skip to 48:00
http://www.justin.tv/meanguns82332/b/285334429

No Sindel havent seen her used much outside of Dan Cock at Power Up.

No Shang at all he is MIA right now.

 

[Neclord]

Anyone know what Ermac's tweaks are? I'm guessing just damage % reduction?

Ermac will get a name change.

After patch his name will be Easymac.

 

[MKF30]

lol, some people refer to him as EasyMac&cheese now haha. Maybe he'll be Low Fat reduced damage Easy Mac

 

[oZii]

lol, some people refer to him as EasyMac&cheese now haha. Maybe he'll be Low Fat reduced damage Easy Mac

lol I got you MKF I use as a alt cause cause he isnt difficult to use.

 

[MKF30]

Yeah, When it comes to Ermac, I think of the saying "Easy to use, hard to master"

He's definitely challenging but then, at least he's not on Kung's level of pick up and play lol

 

[DanCock]

To be honest I was never really impressed by Smoke. Then again it's true I've never played a half decent Smoke player. Just noobs that use him and spam teleport.

But I just don't see why he would be any better than Scorpion or Noob.

I'd love to see a high level Smoke player in action though. So if you have a video link to some high level Smoke stuff I'd like to see it. Same with Sindel and Shang Tsung, I'd love to see high level players show how good these characters can be.

I think smoke, scorpion and noob are all at the same tier level which is A+ all 3 are equally good.

if your on xbox add kitana sinh3ll we'll play. sindel is my main.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[REO]

He's definitely challenging but then, at least he's not on Kung's level of pick up and play lol

I want to see your "pick-up-and-play" Kung, I bet you'd go two and out.


Anyway...

S tier: Sub- Zero, Johnny Cage, Raiden, Reptile, Nightwolf, Kano, Kung Lao

A tier: Kitana, Cyber-Sub, Ermac, Mileena, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Kabal, Sonya, Shang Tsung, Noob Saibot, Sindel

B tier: Cyrax, Jade, Stryker, Smoke, Sektor, Jax, Sheeva, Baraka

C tier: Quan Chi


This is depending if what I heard right will be in the next patch. Not sure about Kung atm either, heard he's getting more nerfs like on :en spin and dive kick.

 

[Rushdown]

Holy shit REO, please share what you heard about Kano

That jump cant just be from his low now hitting low can it?

Edit - and I dont know shit about kano. If this means he has a low starter, overhead starter, fast advancing special, fast projectile and unblockable X then that seems ok lol.

Sent from my Android using Tapatalk

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Kano S tier? Wow REO. You got balls.

Post-patch he'll finally have a low juggle starter and some up ball shens but placing him S is a bit much imho. But yeah, he's definitely strong: One of the best zoners in the game, arial control with airborne ball + air throw, an overhead + low that can lead to juggles, safe blockstrings because of choke and some decent 30-40% damaging combos. Definitely A tier at worst.

lol @ Quan Chi without his rune trap.

 

[Tim Static]

Kano S tier? Wow REO. You got balls.

I see what u did there.

 

[Lady Death]

No, Reptile is ass. People just go easy on me.

Loved this, btw.

To contribute, in all of this, I'm glad Cyber's getting recognition. I figured he wouldn't be bottom for long.

 

[lobo]

rofl 7 man S tier!