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MK9: Unofficial Tier List Speculation, and/or Character Shenanigans Discussion!

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oZii

Mortal
cage and nw I wouldn't touch ATM. they are very good but are lacking in certain areas. same as cyber sub very good character but lacks in certain areas.

raiden a character I use, the only thing I would tweak on him is him being able to do a blocked string into teleport. I wouldn't allow the teleport after a 3rd blocked hit.

subzero - he shouldn't be able to refreeze with the b+2. it's unblockable and it refreezes give me a fucking break. if he has this move every character should have this type of move. (an unblockable attack if charged, kinda like tekkens unblockable attacks).


reptile EH dash needs to be punishable it's falls in the same area as Kung spin. it's punishable but the window is small to punish it. and the reward is big like the spin.

tonight I'll make a final post about why I think Kung should be toned in certain areas. after that I'll STFU.


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Dan I disagree with all your issues you have. You just need to go in the lab and practice moar!! :sindel: just messing with you :)



DaiHuu has an excellent Nightwolf I like how he plays Nightwolf it is really really solid. From playing that level of nightwolf I would say that he is like a fortress its hard to figure out which way to come at him. His projectile is relatively slow but he can reflect.

Once NightWolf has set the tone of the match which I think he does similar to Sub-Zero his projectile become extremely effect cause the arrows are Long so its different than jumping over other projectiles.

Hatchet needs no explanation its good! It also makes you afraid to try and punish on a block string miss cause he can cancel into big damage.

Really only weakness I see is somewhat lack of lows in his strings but more and more I am learning that lack of lows in strings don't matter to much (see S1lents Ermac). He has one string for low mix up and the universal sweep.

His Uppercut is good too like strykers. He really has all the tools very little weakness. His Shoulder Charge and EX Shoulder Charger allow him to control so much space.
 

REO

Undead
Sub-Zero - Ice Clone is too good when used with a brain, disables a ton of your opponents options, gives pressure, meter, space, air control, can be 2 in 1 clone to make unsafe strings safe, etc. :bp:bp is the best string in the game, hitbox covers Sub's entire body so you can't even jump over him, comes out fast, lots of range, can hit confirm into freeze on reaction. :x is the best in the game, too fast, safe on block, goes through projectiles, armor, can be charged, barey any damage scaling, etc. What does his :x not have? B+:bp can be used as a reset after freezes for unbreakable damage and cause situations that lead into insane amounts of damage.


Raiden - Superman is one of the best punishers in the game, :en has armor so you can't even use a projectile or you will eat :en everytime on reaction, superman can be used to retreat and turtle in air to build meter, control air, escape corners, etc. Teleport is one of the best wake-up moves, can 2 in 1 off strings to gain advantage, counter zoning, etc. :fk:fk:bk and B+:fk:fp:bp are some of the best strings in the game for pressure.


Johnny Cage - :bp:fpF+:bp one of the best pressure strings in the game, moves cage forward, can check people after the first two hits with a safe overhead pop-up. Flashkick is one of the best reversals in the game, safe against majority of the cast, extremely good as wake-up, between pressure strings to check people, solid anti-air, etc. Shadow kick punishes almost everything on whiff and block, threat of :en must be respected from even full-screen. :en low forceball gives advantage on hit and block, can be 2 in 1 to cause pressure loops and gain massive amounts of meter, or just to get in in general. :x causes the most pressure in the game, best defensive mechanism, gets people to play defensive which gets you killed VS cage cause you're giving him opportunity to continue attacking. Nutpunch disables wake-up and gives cage safe jumps into continued pressure.


Nightwolf - Shoulder rapes stand blocking and builds meter, controls space heavily, can be 2 in 1 from his overheads for guranteed pressure and meter, one of the best punishers in the game, :en version catches people who jump back on reaction, :en threat of full-screen, shoulder conditions people to crouch constantly. :en lightning guranteed off of shoulder in most cases, :en lightning extremely hard to escape if you're caught crouching, pops them up and leads to more damage. Relfector shuts down projectiles, :en reflector gives Nightwolf health. :en arrow very good at ending games with almost guranteed chip. F+:fk one of the best normals, come out quick and picks up people on the ground, gives lots of pressure off on block because it can be delayed into :fp and hatchet. Hatchet can be 2 in 1 from any normal which will make any string 100% safe.


Reptile - Run is the best punisher in the game, no recovery on whiff, can be used to close space, escape pressure, elimiate the threat of cross-up jumps, :en version is sage on block, :en can be used to escape being walled with no risk, can combo off :en in open space with slide or against wall with full combo, etc. Spit is one of the fastest projectiles in the game. Forceballs give great zoning, great for trades, :en slow forceball sets up lots of messed up situations. :x shuts down all projectile zoning from the opponent. Acid hand makes any string and poke safe on block and is an overhead.


Kung Lao - Spin is very fast, can be used to escape pressure, great anti-air, gives pessure off wake-up, rapes cross-up jumps, etc. Ground hat is good for zoning, can be 2 in 1 to give pokes and strings more oki, :en ground hat sets up lots of wall pressure, etc. Dive kick counters most zoning on reaction, can be used for mobility, combo against wall, etc. :en teleport good for wake-up and escaping pressure.



Top 6, in my opinion, I tried to make it as breif as possible so I know I left a ton of things out.
 

Error Macro

It April yet?
cage and nw I wouldn't touch ATM. they are very good but are lacking in certain areas. same as cyber sub very good character but lacks in certain areas.

raiden a character I use, the only thing I would tweak on him is him being able to do a blocked string into teleport. I wouldn't allow the teleport after a 3rd blocked hit.

subzero - he shouldn't be able to refreeze with the b+2. it's unblockable and it refreezes give me a fucking break. if he has this move every character should have this type of move. (an unblockable attack if charged, kinda like tekkens unblockable attacks).


reptile EH dash needs to be punishable it's falls in the same area as Kung spin. it's punishable but the window is small to punish it. and the reward is big like the spin.

tonight I'll make a final post about why I think Kung should be toned in certain areas. after that I'll STFU.


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Just out of curiosity, wheat areas do you find Cyber Sub lacking in? I'd love to have more feedback on the character as everyone is still forming opinions on him
 

Tom Brady

Champion
sub is losing the b+2 charge reset so hes fine. KL is fine, cage is fine, nw, etc.. those characters need no buffs or tones. the game is new guys, work through, find a way...
 

dookieagain

Last Bastion of Arcades
sub is losing the b+2 charge reset so hes fine. KL is fine, cage is fine, nw, etc.. those characters need no buffs or tones. the game is new guys, work through, find a way...
Just curious but are there any characters you think do need buffs?
 

Luxus Nights

Beyond Good & Evil
reptile EH dash needs to be punishable it's falls in the same area as Kung spin. it's punishable but the window is small to punish it. and the reward is big like the spin.
Correct me if Im wrong but a whiff dash isn't punishable, a blocked dash is pretty easy to punish.

I'd Like to hear yalls inputs on the mid tier and low tier characters.

Edit:My mistake your talking about EH dash. I missed that forgive me.
 

Samsung Crunchy

Studying all of her moves
If I remember correctly, Tom Brady said at Power Up that all characters were viable for tournament play except one. Any idea which character he was referring to?
 

oZii

Mortal
Indirect sarcasm toward what I said earlier won't get you far on this site. Just a warning.
Look man I don't know what your issue is but if you go through the entire thread I never attacked anyone or called anyone names. Just because I disagree people seem to have taken it as a personal attack why I don't know.

I even posted a reply directed at no one at all because I could see the heat levels rising as peoples tone started to change.

You might erase this I don't know if you have mod powers at all but since you directly brought me up with a Quote.

Now I can make one with all my posts you will see I didn't call anyone a name. I even said the subject was dead and I would move on because it was getting out of hand.

Just to point out the title of the thread is Tier list and Character discussions. Right now Kung Lao is the discussion but there is also 2 pages of Noob Saibot discussion also and good smoke discussion.

Just saying before people get upset this is what this thread is for if 5 people say they think Kung Lao needs a nerf to spin then it is ok cause thats what this thread is about general character discussion.

Opinion is ok

Internet meme:
Cool story bro.
you posted this after I said I was done with the Kung Lao discussion because people where losing civility and went about attacking people.

I responded with

Sorry not biting on the bait lol.

Im done with the kung topic. Nothing wrong with walking away.

On to that next character.


I havent seen much Sektor play really. I did watch Sllent use him last night though. He seems like he has some good tools. Strings are pretty good too. His U+3 mixups are look good too.

Dan Cock very nice Kitana I saw last night.


Directed at who?
You know for so much discussion centered around whether or not Kung should be nerfed, there's not many threads/posts dedicated to the character in the Character Forums. There's a ton for Sub, Smoke, Ermac, etc - yet Kung's is so empty. You would THINK that there would be more interest shown toward the character before CRYING NERF.

Note: Before you run your mouth and say that you don't need to show interest to understand what is broken, you should look at the Sentinel specific forum on SRK.
Now what I left for Dan was on topic with his post cause obviously he is frustrated that people think his opinion is him crying. That wasn't even directed at nobody. It was sarcasm yes but not directed at you. Juggernaught even put in his post that he would be done with the subject cause people are saying that is whining or crying to disagree.

Maybe I get banned for this maybe you do it. You responded directly to me in this thread so I respond directly to you. You could have PM'd me

Of all my other posts on this entire site no once have I posted something derogatory toward anyone. I am not going to be ok with someone saying I am crying or whining because I disagree with them.

You shouldn't call people names because they disagree with you.
 
Baraka can do some small combos and decent corner combos but the damage is so freaking lackluster, I think what they should do is rise his damage output on all his specials, maybe reduce the scaling of them on combos, and make his projectile able to hit crouch block.
 

dookieagain

Last Bastion of Arcades
Just saw on twitter that Kano is getting buffs. Shortened recovery on whiff upball and f+4 becomes a low. Haven't seen anything else but I'm on my phone. Speaking of mid/low tier characters when I get home I'll do a write up on Stryker.
 
Just saw on twitter that Kano is getting buffs. Shortened recovery on whiff upball and f+4 becomes a low. Haven't seen anything else but I'm on my phone. Speaking of mid/low tier characters when I get home I'll do a write up on Stryker.
Yes we noted that on our Kano Forum, we are really happy because it boost out game option a lot up close.

Up ball depending of the buff could be quite awesome, currently Up Ball can be used for shenanigans cross ups but is just a gimmick, but if with he buff it recover fast enough it can be a valid option.
 

oZii

Mortal
Yes we noted that on our Kano Forum, we are really happy because it boost out game option a lot up close.

Up ball depending of the buff could be quite awesome, currently Up Ball can be used for shenanigans cross ups but is just a gimmick, but if with he buff it recover fast enough it can be a valid option.

Wow just went and found that post really cool they are actually changing some properties. Its like VF has with its revisions with out having to make a entire new game.

How do you think it will affect his gameplay? This should allow for more mixups right? I don't know much about kanos setups. I played stutter pains Kano and when he was on me it was hard to get him away. Forced me to play more of a keep away style with scorpion.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
f3 is a low now is likely just a fix. It should've likely been a low, as it is.

Upball having faster whiff recovery is good, though I don't know exactly what it will affect. If it were on block, it'd be a different story.

Also, REPTILE DOES NOT NEED HIS EX DASH CHANGED AT ALL! >.> It's 1 bar of meter, and the move can be stuffed on startup (I had it happen to me often enough to know it's not worth nerfing it in any way...it is fine). So nyah, Dan! :p
 
f3 is a low now is likely just a fix. It should've likely been a low, as it is.

Upball having faster whiff recovery is good, though I don't know exactly what it will affect. If it were on block, it'd be a different story.
Balls on block are as bad as blocked teleport, they are an awesome tool but they must be used smartly, here is a video of Vulcan Hades
you can see him using Ball as a Cross up, but since the recovery is slow its not practical.
 
baraka for sure needs to be buffed.
Doesn't every character have access to a core guessing game?

I remember you always mentioning that upon an opponent guarding a jump punch, that they have to defend against a throw attempt with an escape. Doesn't every character have this in their arsenal? And if so, can't this type of guessing game be enforced at similar frame advantages(once data is known) on other moves and the guarding of other moves that give up opponent's frame advantage?

As in a forced choice of a throw or an uncrouchable strike.

The core guessing games aren't strong enough for Baraka to be tournament viable?

I don't use him, but I was atleast hoping the some core mechanics were universal across the board, which would allow even the lowest characters to have a fight chance.
 

DaiHuu

Nightwolf Mourner
Doesn't every character have access to a core guessing game?

I remember you always mentioning that upon an opponent guarding a jump punch, that they have to defend against a throw attempt with an escape. Doesn't every character have this in their arsenal? And if so, can't this type of guessing game be enforced at similar frame advantages(once data is known) on other moves and the guarding of other moves that give up opponent's frame advantage?

As in a forced choice of a throw or an uncrouchable strike.

The core guessing games aren't strong enough for Baraka to be tournament viable?

I don't use him, but I was atleast hoping the some core mechanics were universal across the board, which would allow even the lowest characters to have a fight chance.
It's not that Baraka has a guessing game. (He does, don't get me wrong on that) it's just that other characters do way more then he can and his damage output is pretty low. Averaging around 20-25% in combos without x-ray. While characters like NW or ER average 35-40% without meter. He does have a fighting chance, he just has to work harder then most of the cast.
 

REO

Undead
Baraka is playable, he's bad but not 100% useless. He's got a few good tools like his uppercut being one of the best in the game. Blade charge is his only good special, good at whiff punishing, goes through projectiles with armor, and free after peak uppercut. :bp:bp:fp+:bp is also a really good string, last his is an overhead and is +1 on block. This is all he has pretty much, very limited but not a 100% useless char.
 
It's not that Baraka has a guessing game. (He does, don't get me wrong on that) it's just that other characters do way more then he can and his damage output is pretty low. Averaging around 20-25% in combos without x-ray. While characters like NW or ER average 35-40% without meter. He does have a fighting chance, he just has to work harder then most of the cast.
So in other words, his reward isn't worth his risk? Cause a lot of his moves must be unsafe and punishable with a wide assortment of moves on guard?

20-25% is kind of interesting, well anything below 25% is. 25% means that Baraka needs 4 correct choices per round, the 35-40% means those characters only need 3. By the sound of that, it wouldn't be so bad if Baraka's moves were safer than others giving him more opportunities per round to get the correct choice, but I guess that ain't the case since he's rated so low.
 
Since NR Studios said they will maintain a balance of chars I wouldn't be surprised to see a buff for lower tier chars... I could be wrong though....
 

JagoMIH

Apprentice
i still think baraka's damage should get buffed...hes pretty weak for a guy with blades for arms XP
 
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