At this point, is there any one person who thinks this game is balanced?

[Marinjuana]

I did not say that SF4 was completely balanced. I said that it was way more balanced than mk11, which is not a difficult task by any means.

I played sf4 alot....you just could not win against a guy that was better than you at neutral and reactions....it was almost impossible, but in mk11....with all the incentives for kids to not abandon the game....look at dragons video man....

I think what you guys are saying to justify your positions is just not a criteria that should be used in order to evaluate if a game is balanced, fair.
1 - "Mkx was worse"....nice. So MK11 is good because is better than MKX. So....bad food in restaurant 2 is actually good because bad food in restaurant 1 was worse. What about look at the game....again...dragon summed that up to you guys...just watch that.
2 - A ton of characters in top 16....right: Just buff all the characters on the cast and give all of them bullshit. This is gonna lead to people think that the game is balanced. This centainly is gonna disguise the bullshit.
If the majority of the cast relly on bullshit to win....is this a fair game? I think NRS tactic is working...people really think that the game is fair because it has more characters in top 8 than previous games....but what they did was just put bullshit in everyone....is this balance?

Of course the game is what it is....people don't have a clue about anything....press buttons and be happy with jaccqui.

Look at how many times xinok just pressed shit....just did it....and konqueror lost! Konqueror is one the best players in mk11 at neutral in my opinion....
But hey....the game is balanced because mkx was worse and all the chars have bs so I can use my bs against another bs.

If it's so easy to make a more balanced fighter then MK11, then name some. You say SF4 and T7, two of the most beloved fighters of all time, the latter of which was a laughing stock last year because of an apparently broke DLC character.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

If it's so easy to make a more balanced fighter then MK11, then name some. You say SF4 and T7, two of the most beloved fighters of all time, the latter of which was a laughing stock last year because of an apparently broke DLC character.

I already named some games. I really think that we need to look at the game objectively. The frame data, mechanics, if neutral is efficient....the damage, I mean....it is complex man, it is not like "compare to another game and see which one is worse, hence, the other is good".

The foundation, the basis of a comptetitive fg is neutral. The reads come after that. Guessing and ramdomness waaaay after that.
Dragon explained that so well.....I really recomend you to check it out, and listen to what titaniuntiggerz say about the game too.

 

[Deleted member 64931]

His S2 was a mid on release, didn't last long IIRC. Up rock was so good though dude lmao

Yeah a few of the DLC still top tier or up there, but some were extra busted on release

Yeah sektor is still top and so is crystalline but anyone who says he’s best in the game is nuts. Demo Sonya flew under the radar so hard in this game that she’s my pick for top 1.

 

[Marinjuana]

I already named some games. I really think that we need to look at the game objectively. The frame data, mechanics, if neutral is efficient....the damage, I mean....it is complex man, it is not like "compare to another game and see which one is worse, hence, the other is good".

The foundation, the basis of a comptetitive fg is neutral. The reads come after that. Guessing and ramdomness waaaay after that.
Dragon explained that so well.....I really recomend you to check it out, and listen to what titaniuntiggerz say about the game too.

You named two in T7 and SF4.

I'm 15 minutes into Dragons vid and he hasn't mentioned the balance yet, maybe he will. But when people talk about "balance" in a fighter, they almost always mean character balance, as opposed to having issue with game mechanics like breakaway or super dash.

 

[trufenix]

I knew this thread wouldn't disappoint. Even had a reo cameo. Remember when that guy's opinion on games mattered?

 

[DoDaMuSiC]

In that game if I jail you, you're jailed end of discussion.

Yeah lets not pretend people in mkx didn’t mash armored launchers when -3 or smth and when you were plus trying to jail

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

You named two in T7 and SF4.

I'm 15 minutes into Dragons vid and he hasn't mentioned the balance yet, maybe he will. But when people talk about "balance" in a fighter, they almost always mean character balance, as opposed to having issue with game mechanics like breakaway or super dash.

I really don't get why you insist in....I'm giving you a list of games that are better balanced that MK11. Is that gonna change what MK11 is? What is the point here, actually? Can you see how jump ins are free? How the frame is fucked at the point that is 15 times the turn of Jaccqui and still I have to guess after that....the pushback on fatal blows, the absurd damage on guessing and pressing buttons....crushing blows on grabs....D2 fatal blow....zoning characters teleporting with almost 0 recovery, like....can you please look at the game? It is there man....

If I dont name 10 games better than mk11 balance wise so you are right...that is the mind game you're playing? I dont play fighting games like this man....they demand time, But mk11 is one that I know, for sure.

 

[Swindle]

So....Dragon is wrong?

Usually.

 

[Swindle]

Tekken 7 is not a more balanced game than MK11.
GTFO with that shit take.

 

[Blade4693]

I mean...it's not perfect but if you compare it to past MK games I think it's pretty balanced. It has issues, but I feel like people forget some of crap in a game as recent as MK9 with P1 advantage and the weird stuff that game had.

 

[Eddy Wang]

You are the guy that intrigues me the most. You clearly, invest a lot of your time labbing, playing the games you like. You understand the options, mechanics....etc....but when comes to evaluate if "x" or "y" game is fair and balanced or not....you come with some opinions that are just absurd to me, just ignoring things that are basic in any FG, as anti air, turns....neutral.

I think that some people are so driven by competition....they forget that in order to competition exists there has to be some rules.

I listen to your podcast, I really respect you....but it is really difficult to understand why you say that x or y game is balanced, when, clearly....is not even near that.

For people to claim that MKX need to come back...that says a lot about the current situation of mk11.

REO was being sarcastic.

 

[Deleted member 64931]

Yeah lets not pretend people in mkx didn’t mash armored launchers when -3 or smth and when you were plus trying to jail

Newsflash, being plus doesn't mean you are jailed. At -3 you can steal your turn back in most games.

 

[DoDaMuSiC]

Newsflash, being plus doesn't mean you are jailed. At -3 you can steal your turn back in most games.

Yet mk11 is the only game that people talk about it because “people are scared of flawless blocks”
I wonder why

 

[Marinjuana]

I really don't get why you insist in....I'm giving you a list of games that are better balanced that MK11. Is that gonna change what MK11 is? What is the point here, actually? Can you see how jump ins are free? How the frame is fucked at the point that is 15 times the turn of Jaccqui and still I have to guess after that....the pushback on fatal blows, the absurd damage on guessing and pressing buttons....crushing blows on grabs....D2 fatal blow....zoning characters teleporting with almost 0 recovery, like....can you please look at the game? It is there man....

If I dont name 10 games better than mk11 balance wise so you are right...that is the mind game you're playing? I dont play fighting games like this man....they demand time, But mk11 is one that I know, for sure.

You gave me two games, that's the absolute minimum for what constitutes a list bro haha.. I'm just asking you to defend your thread about the game being unbalanced. Tekken 7(despite leeroy and co) and SF4 aren't bad answers, but I could name three prominent fighters from the past couple years that I'd say are less balanced then MK11.

You know I'm not a fan of fatal blow pushback, it's dumb.. but I do like good jump kicks. Is that a balance thing or do I have preferences? Like you're talking about arbitrary balance of system mechanics, but most people will think you mean character to character balance when they see a thread like this.

 

[Ashesfall]

When it comes to Tekken, parrys in general are active at frame 3.
Meaning if you are -8 and you want to parry a 10frame jab, the jab will hit you.
In MK11 you can be -20 on hit by your opponent and still get a parry/flawless block.
Its active on frame 1 but only last 3 frames. So if you read a player who relies on parry, throw your moves some frames off. Maybe he is just totally in your head.
Flawless block is the most advanced mechanic in MK11. No "causal" will master it or even be aware of it.

 

[Zyns]

People need their opinions validated so badly lol. If you don't like the game just don't play it.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

Tekken 7 is not a more balanced game than MK11.
GTFO with that shit take.

Nice argument.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

You gave me two games, that's the absolute minimum for what constitutes a list bro haha.. I'm just asking you to defend your thread about the game being unbalanced. Tekken 7(despite leeroy and co) and SF4 aren't bad answers, but I could name three prominent fighters from the past couple years that I'd say are less balanced then MK11.

You know I'm not a fan of fatal blow pushback, it's dumb.. but I do like good jump kicks. Is that a balance thing or do I have preferences? Like you're talking about arbitrary balance of system mechanics, but most people will think you mean character to character balance when they see a thread like this.

I really, really...insist...on what is the point of me giving you a list of a pletora of fgs that are better balanced than mk11, to justify that mk11 is not balanced. What mindset is that? You don't need that....what requisite is this? Look at the game....it is there. Just look at it.

I gave you two games....is more than enough. Im not gonna talk about guilty gear, dragon ball....I did not play these games, and I don't think my point is less valuable because of that.

I'm quoting some shit in mk11...because if I would quote all the bullshit, I would be here almost forever. And yes, indeed, mechanics and flaws in the game in general interfere in balance. Look why Jaccqui is the best char in the game....you can cant break away her. Just one example.

So....I'm gonna be especialist in 289490 games, and Im' gonna give you the list...and then you are going to answer "see, that is not true because that char in the game is lalalala...hence, mk11 is fantastic".....what is the point of this?

If you understand what turns is, frame that.... neutral....only mk11 is sufficient, but I gave two games that I know....still not enough for you.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I mean the Fatal Blow isn't without some issues but I don't think it's that bad either. It's needlessly difficult to punish and some characters like Noob and Joker have ridiculous scaling, but it's not really that different from the X-Rays we had before, now instead of spending all of your meter that would be better spent on EX moves, you just have it more as a comeback mechanic or round ender. How long it is isn't really an issue to me either. Combos in DBFZ are legitimately 30 seconds long in some cases and there is no breaking at all. I think maybe giving it a short cutscene like almost every other fighting game super might make it a little bit more fun to play with because then people can't just toss it in the neutral but it would still be usable to potentially steal a turn or finish a combo and punishing it would be easier.

actually they are very different.
X-Rays didn't last more than 5 seconds and was the only time in the game you could see internal damage, they were quick, swift and straight to the point, they had to be managed with meter which in turn you had to know how and when to use it otherwise you would have spend all your resources.

Fatal Blows are boring, the animations get stale, there is a damage boost mechanic, some of these give insane amount of space control, and have pushback, like geras FB defies the laws of physics on block. And the worst part, there is no managing, pressing fatal blows you can just use it and if done right no one is punishing you for it, and after a while it comes back as long as both characters are still fighting.

Easily one of the worst mechanics of this game.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

People need their opinions validated so badly lol. If you don't like the game just don't play it.

I just asked a question. You don't need to have the same opinion as me, neither you are superior for commenting that.

 

[Marinjuana]

I really, really...insist...on what is the point of me giving you a list of a pletora of fgs that are better balanced than mk11, to justify that mk11 is not balanced. What mindset is that? You don't need that....what requisite is this? Look at the game....it is there. Just look at it.

I gave you two games....is more than enough. Im not gonna talk about guilty gear, dragon ball....I did not play this games, and I don't think my point is less valuable because of that.

I'm quoting some shit in mk11...because if would quote all the bullshit, I would be here almost forever. And yes, indeed, mechanics and flaws in the game in general interfere in balance. Look why Jaccqui is the best chars in the game....you can cant break away her. Just one example.

So....I'm gonna be especialist in 289490 games, and Im' gonna give you the list...and then you are going to answer "see, that is not true because that char in the game is lalalala...hence, mk11 is fantastic".....what is the point of this?

If undersatnd what turns is, frame that.... neutral....only mk11 is sufficient, but I gave two games that I know....still not enough for you.

I don't think any of the things you listed points to an unbalanced game.

Yes bro, if you never played the other games, you can't compare it. Its like saying Eminem is a shitty rapper, and then saying the only rap you listen to is Tupac and Biggie, so Eminem must be shitty because you think he's not as good as those two.

 

[Ashesfall]

actually they are very different.
X-Rays didn't last more than 5 seconds and was the only time in the game you could see internal damage, they were quick, swift and straight to the point, they had to be managed with meter which in turn you had to know how and when to use it otherwise you would have spend all your resources.

Fatal Blows are boring, the animations get stale, there is a damage boost mechanic, some of these give insane amount of space control, and have pushback, like geras FB defies the laws of physics on block. And the worst part, there is no managing, pressing fatal blows you can just use it and if done right no one is punishing you for it, and after a while it comes back as long as both characters are still fighting.

Easily one of the worst mechanics of this game.

I agree and Tekken7 has on purpose those start up cinematic on rage arts, so if it gets blocked, you have time to realize and punish. In Tekken7 a rage art is always super risky on high level no matter the character. In MK11, in the heat you can actually get away with it, especially with the pushback situation. Not cool, if you ask me

 

[Hellbringer]

I'm the opposite of you; I feel the negative feelings you're expressing when I play Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate, and consider Killer Instinct to be the "more fun and better game." They're very different different fighting games. Different strokes and all that, and the honest truth, which is "better" is subjective based on personal preferences and styles.

It's the same for Mortal Kombat XL and Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate.



I'm still getting bodied by WebN Ragnarok every two weeks, but I'm learning. Got promoted to Gold Tier in Ranked all legit a week and a half ago.

I havent been playing any fighting game for months or any other game for that matter. And im starting to miss it.

 

[THTB]

When we are comparing MK11 at current state to MKX after 2 years or Inj2 after 2 years, I am not seeing MK11 be any more balanced than previous games. It's definetly seems more fair on the top tier side. But does top tiers being weaker than top tiers in previous title really say how balanced game is?
It really depends how you would define balance. Is the power gap between Cetrion and Shao Kahn in MK11 smaller than gap between Batman and Raiden in Inj2? I don't think so. For me it's the same. Maybe even on inj2 favor, because in mk11 when someone chooses Shao Kahn and then beats me I would feel like terrible player. How could I lose to that trash character. But in Injustice 2 when I had lost to Raiden I thought to myself - wait do people really think this character is that bad?
It was even more more like that in MKX. In MK11 you can see all the tier list and they basically have the same characters in top 5, top 10. In MKX there was like 15 characters that ppl were putting in top 5. Even more for top 10. Almost every character seems strong. You can complain for hours how busted some mid tier character in MKX was. While in MK11 you can complain for hours how bad some mid tier character in MK11 is and how many buffs that character needs to be on Cetrion's level.

So, no. I don't think like power level wise MK11 is any more balanced than previous titles. But MK11 does one thing that makes all of it having less meaning than in previous titles. Yeah, one characters are way stronger than others, but so what? You have breakaways and fatal blows at your disposal. You are losing until you drop to 30%, then game magically balances things up and both you and your oponnent are 1 hit confrim from winning.

Tbh I would never compare Inj2 balance to MK11's, cuz it really was never as badly balanced as it was made out to be, and is arguably the best balanced NRS game. MFers just didn't wanna play a 4-6 with that money on the line looooool.

I also don't think MK11 has complete duds like Bo and Jax, the latter of whom got completely smoked in the final update by a number of characters. Kahn definitely doesn't struggle as hard as those two did, and I don't think Cetrion and Jacqui are as harsh on the mid and lower tiers as the top of MKX were.

 

[BarakaTile]

actually they are very different.
X-Rays didn't last more than 5 seconds and was the only time in the game you could see internal damage, they were quick, swift and straight to the point, they had to be managed with meter which in turn you had to know how and when to use it otherwise you would have spend all your resources.

Fatal Blows are boring, the animations get stale, there is a damage boost mechanic, some of these give insane amount of space control, and have pushback, like geras FB defies the laws of physics on block. And the worst part, there is no managing, pressing fatal blows you can just use it and if done right no one is punishing you for it, and after a while it comes back as long as both characters are still fighting.

Easily one of the worst mechanics of this game.

Maybe X-Rays are some magical experience for you but I'd be happier to see the cutscene super gone entirely.