At this point, is there any one person who thinks this game is balanced?

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

The question doesn't even make sense. It's not a matter of belief, it's an indisputable fact: People are competing in MK11 (a lot of them, actually). The outcomes are not random; the winners clearly have a high degree of skill at using the rules of the game. Yeah there's too much Jacqui and Cetrion, but there's still a sizable representation of other characters at the top of the brackets; there's a whole thread here at TYM dedicating to documenting that fact just for the Pro Series. Sheeva hasn't even come close to being the brainless bracket-destroying monster everyone was losing their shit about.

It's not a perfect game by any means, but no FG is. We'd all like another balance patch and changes to certain mechanics. But regardless, no amount of subjective belief (from the OP or anyone else) that MK11 is "not a real competitive FG" has any bearing on the objective fact that it most clearly, obviously is.

So....Dragon is wrong?

 

[Deleted member 64931]

What are the 9-1s in MK11?

Kollector - Sheeva is 9-1 in Sheeva's favor as proven by Tigerz. Nothing he can do about stomp.

 

[WA-Finest]

Kollector - Sheeva is 9-1 in Sheeva's favor as proven by Tigerz. Nothing he can do about stomp.

Oh yeah that makes sense. I have to say stomp was a really bad choice by NRS in my mind. It's too useful even without the half stomp version to mix it up. I feel like stomp has no reason to be anything more than a zoning tool without it. But even with that I think to claim this game is poorly balanced is just not true. I'm sure we'll see some changes soon.

 

[Deleted member 64931]

Oh yeah that makes sense. I have to say stomp was a really bad choice by NRS in my mind. It's too useful even without the half stomp version to mix it up. I feel like stomp has no reason to be anything more than a zoning tool without it. But even with that I think to claim this game is poorly balanced is just not true. I'm sure we'll see some changes soon.

a lot of people are starting to think the game is done and if that’s true I’d be fine with it. I’ve been playing mkx and killer instinct. This is the worst fighting game I’ve ever played by far and I’m really ready to move on from fucking... Fatal blows. The fact there’s so much other shit to complain about in this game that we all forgot we are watching 15 second animation every match is embarrassing. Fuck this game and let’s move on. Maybe they’ll finally fire Paulo Garcia and get one of the guys from killer instinct.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

@BRAZILIAN SHEEPAre you saying MKX wasn't balanced and that it was not the best fighting game NRS has ever created? Because all I read today in 2021 is how amazing and a gem of a fighting game MKX is at a high level.


Let's break down what makes MKX an amazing fighting game:

• It doesn't have customs like MK11
• It's not broken like MK11
• It doesn't have 1-9 match ups like MK11
• It doesn't have turn stealing like MK11
• It has execution and super creative play styles unlike MK11
• It has combos unlike MK11
• It's not a walk-back fest like MK11
• It's not a zone fest like MK11
• You can't get scrubbed out in MKX because the game's skill ceiling is so impeccably high, a random scrub would never have a chance to jump in on you or open you up in the game.

Do I really need to go on? Pretty much MKX did almost everything right and that's why so many people express their love for the game today in 2021 and they want MK12 to be a remake of MKX. Hope most of you get your wish TBH

Don't forget the amazing art design, music and all the different shades of grey and black in that game.
It even looks fantastic by today's standards.

Also the DLC characters weren't as broken as Joker and Sheeva in MK11. In MK11 you can just pay to win and it's smooth sailing. In MKX you needed a PHD in astrophysics to do well with Alien and Predator.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

I can only talk about games that I played.

Certainly, SF4 and Tekken 7 are way more balanced. Still some shit happening there, but way ahead MK11.

MK11 in certain matchups is not even a FG man. Jaccqui vs any....is just a scrub fest. No rules whatsoever.

Yeah remember when Hakan, Dan, Honda, DeeJay, Blanka, T.Hawk won tournaments? Yeah me neither.
Or remember when Daigo switched to Yun, or how fun playing against Elena was?
Or fucking Akuma, Geese and that piece of shit Leeroy in T7?

The fuck are you smoking, have you even played the games you claim are better handled balance-wise than MK11?

MK11 is head and shoulders one of the most balanced most fighting games out there and in the process it can be a bit boring at times. You gotta pick one:

1.: Have a diverse cast of characters with exciting gameplay and decisions to make but have a clean cut top tier in the game.
2.: Have a game ruled by univsersal system mechanics and toned down specials that all do the same shit but the roster is relatively balanced.

There really isn't much in between.

Tekken is an outlier but what they do has the disadvantage of you having to be a walking Tekken encyclopedia that spans the last 20 years in order to get into the meat and potatoes of that game.

 

[Obly]

So....Dragon is wrong?

I don't know what you're referring to. Did Dragon say that MK11 wasn't a "real" FG? Not saying it didn't happen, but it would be a pretty strange thing for him to say. That would mean his great tourney placements in the game were due to... what? Random luck? Cheating...?

 

[Ilthuain]

So....Dragon is wrong?

If he said that the game wasn't tournament-viable, yes, that would be wrong.

 

[Gooberking]

a lot of people are starting to think the game is done and if that’s true I’d be fine with it. I’ve been playing mkx and killer instinct. This is the worst fighting game I’ve ever played by far and I’m really ready to move on from fucking... Fatal blows. The fact there’s so much other shit to complain about in this game that we all forgot we are watching 15 second animation every match is embarrassing. Fuck this game and let’s move on. Maybe they’ll finally fire Paulo Garcia and get one of the guys from killer instinct.

Ya know. I hated, all the way down to my core, trying to play KI. I mean I've never disliked playing a fighter till then. I just wanted to saw my fingers off trying to play it and had to QUIT playing. I gave it a good shot, but hell no. Such an obnoxious game. Had to quit.

MK11 is way more fun and a better game than KI. Prove me wrong.

 

[WA-Finest]

a lot of people are starting to think the game is done and if that’s true I’d be fine with it. I’ve been playing mkx and killer instinct. This is the worst fighting game I’ve ever played by far and I’m really ready to move on from fucking... Fatal blows. The fact there’s so much other shit to complain about in this game that we all forgot we are watching 15 second animation every match is embarrassing. Fuck this game and let’s move on. Maybe they’ll finally fire Paulo Garcia and get one of the guys from killer instinct.

I mean the Fatal Blow isn't without some issues but I don't think it's that bad either. It's needlessly difficult to punish and some characters like Noob and Joker have ridiculous scaling, but it's not really that different from the X-Rays we had before, now instead of spending all of your meter that would be better spent on EX moves, you just have it more as a comeback mechanic or round ender. How long it is isn't really an issue to me either. Combos in DBFZ are legitimately 30 seconds long in some cases and there is no breaking at all. I think maybe giving it a short cutscene like almost every other fighting game super might make it a little bit more fun to play with because then people can't just toss it in the neutral but it would still be usable to potentially steal a turn or finish a combo and punishing it would be easier.

 

[Hellbringer]

Ya know. I hated, all the way down to my core, trying to play KI. I mean I've never disliked playing a fighter till then. I just wanted to saw my fingers off trying to play it and had to QUIT playing. I gave it a good shot, but hell no. Such an obnoxious game. Had to quit.

MK11 is way more fun and a better game than KI. Prove me wrong.

Its kinda my bad, shouldnt have whooped your ass so hard in KI.

 

[Metin]

is it really that matter to make a dull game balanced or not balanced? Fuck it.

 

[NoCharge]

He is most likely referring to the hurtbox on kollector vs sheeva stomp
(If NRS is not tweaking stomp, I will be more than disappointed ...)
---
And Tekken7 for sure has not a single 8:2 ...

Tekken has no 8:2 mups because the caracters are so much alike that there is not even a possubility for it.

 

[gitblame]

When we are comparing MK11 at current state to MKX after 2 years or Inj2 after 2 years, I am not seeing MK11 be any more balanced than previous games. It's definetly seems more fair on the top tier side. But does top tiers being weaker than top tiers in previous title really say how balanced game is?
It really depends how you would define balance. Is the power gap between Cetrion and Shao Kahn in MK11 smaller than gap between Batman and Raiden in Inj2? I don't think so. For me it's the same. Maybe even on inj2 favor, because in mk11 when someone chooses Shao Kahn and then beats me I would feel like terrible player. How could I lose to that trash character. But in Injustice 2 when I had lost to Raiden I thought to myself - wait do people really think this character is that bad?
It was even more more like that in MKX. In MK11 you can see all the tier list and they basically have the same characters in top 5, top 10. In MKX there was like 15 characters that ppl were putting in top 5. Even more for top 10. Almost every character seems strong. You can complain for hours how busted some mid tier character in MKX was. While in MK11 you can complain for hours how bad some mid tier character in MK11 is and how many buffs that character needs to be on Cetrion's level.

So, no. I don't think like power level wise MK11 is any more balanced than previous titles. But MK11 does one thing that makes all of it having less meaning than in previous titles. Yeah, one characters are way stronger than others, but so what? You have breakaways and fatal blows at your disposal. You are losing until you drop to 30%, then game magically balances things up and both you and your oponnent are 1 hit confrim from winning.

 

[Gooberking]

Its kinda my bad, shouldnt have whooped your ass so hard in KI.

Yup yup

 

[Ashesfall]

The fact there’s so much other shit to complain about in this game that we all forgot we are watching 15 second animation every match is embarrassing

I have to agree, I also don't like those very long animations, it's just a little bit too much of fight flow breaker, BUT injustice clash system was to me even more annoying (a reason I passed on this game) and let's not forget that this game also had "supers" that took time ...

Tekken has no 8:2 mups because the caracters are so much alike that there is not even a possubility for it.

I wouldn't say they are all "much alike" but they have so many tools that they can compete with all situations. Because Akuma to Gigas or Geese to Kazuya or Noctis to Steve are heavily different in game flow/style.

---
Overall MK11 balance is not the worst but way to shallow for all the "hardcore" pro kids out there.
They need crazy just frames and 20+ second combos to feel "good" and "satisfied". Fucking Cyrax combos in MKX made me go crazy ... and for sure a reason I don't care for DBZ a single bit (even tho it looks cool) ... combovideo the game, no thanks
---
If you read this NRS, thank you very much for adding input buffer on normals. Makes this game way more enjoyable for not so crazy "hardcore pro" players ...

 

[Juxtapose]

Ya know. I hated, all the way down to my core, trying to play KI. I mean I've never disliked playing a fighter till then. I just wanted to saw my fingers off trying to play it and had to QUIT playing. I gave it a good shot, but hell no. Such an obnoxious game. Had to quit.

MK11 is way more fun and a better game than KI. Prove me wrong.

I'm the opposite of you; I feel the negative feelings you're expressing when I play Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate, and consider Killer Instinct to be the "more fun and better game." They're very different different fighting games. Different strokes and all that, and the honest truth, which is "better" is subjective based on personal preferences and styles.

It's the same for Mortal Kombat XL and Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate.

Its kinda my bad, shouldnt have whooped your ass so hard in KI.

I'm still getting bodied by WebN Ragnarok every two weeks, but I'm learning. Got promoted to Gold Tier in Ranked all legit a week and a half ago.

 

[Marinjuana]

Don't forget the amazing art design, music and all the different shades of grey and black in that game.
It even looks fantastic by today's standards.

Also the DLC characters weren't as broken as Joker and Sheeva in MK11. In MK11 you can just pay to win and it's smooth sailing. In MKX you needed a PHD in astrophysics to do well with Alien and Predator.

At one point after buffs, Jason basically had a d1 infinite against Tremor and Liu. Tanya wrecked a whole tournament. Predator had to be toned down. Tremor had his best mid turn into high, lost 2 armored launchers, had uprock severely nerfed. Triborg was fucked up on release with ridiculous hit advantage. Alien was a super dumb character that everyone was glad didn't kill the hype of Evo. Only Bo' Rai and Leatherface weren't top tier at some point.

 

[DoDaMuSiC]

Don't forget the amazing art design, music and all the different shades of grey and black in that game.
It even looks fantastic by today's standards.

Also the DLC characters weren't as broken as Joker and Sheeva in MK11. In MK11 you can just pay to win and it's smooth sailing. In MKX you needed a PHD in astrophysics to do well with Alien and Predator.

....what? Apart from Bo and Leatherface, every single other dlc character in mkx were top tier at some point in the game’s life.

Launch Tanya was played by 6 different people in her first allowed tourney top 8
Jason had infinites against some characters and still has one of the most broken command grabs ever which even if you read his tick throw and you jump it he can still anti air you into a full combo (and you have to jump cuz its a mid)
Tremor is still rocking around with a free armor special that makes him punish a lot of stuff not normally punishable
Launch Alien if you had half of your brain removed you could still perform well and beat good players with it with 2 different variations
Smoke and Sektor were in everyone’s top 5 towards the final patch, launch Cyrax and launch Cyber Sub-Zero were broken so they had to be nerfed in the first few weeks
Launch Predator with his mid s3 had jailing plus frames for an eternity and if you had execution it was never your opponents turn

Meanwhile in mk11 you have Joker and Fujin at the top, Sheeva who has nothing but stomp (the moment they nerf that broke shit she will be back being bottom tier) and maybe Shang in the top part of tier lists
While Sindel, Nightwolf, Rain and Spawn who are mid tier at best, and then you have Terminator, Rambo, Mileena and Robocop who all belong in the trash part of tier lists.

Which game exactly had more top tier dlcs?

 

[DoDaMuSiC]

People like to only look at mkx’s final patch and call it a balanced amazing game and don’t look back to all the bullshit we all had to deal with during 2 year. Yall can say mkx is more fun and that you prefer it over mk11, but stating it that it is the better game its just a big ass fallacy.

 

[Deleted member 64931]

At one point after buffs, Jason basically had a d1 infinite against Tremor and Liu. Tanya wrecked a whole tournament. Predator had to be toned down. Tremor had his best mid turn into high, lost 2 armored launchers, had uprock severely nerfed. Triborg was fucked up on release with ridiculous hit advantage. Alien was a super dumb character that everyone was glad didn't kill the hype of Evo. Only Bo' Rai and Leatherface weren't top tier at some point.

Was Tremor's f1 a high or his s2 a mid? I don't remember f1 ever being a mid, but I never played until after 10/4/16 patch. Aftershock and Crystaline are still considered S tier characters.

 

[Deleted member 64931]

People like to only look at mkx’s final patch and call it a balanced amazing game and don’t look back to all the bullshit we all had to deal with during 2 year. Yall can say mkx is more fun and that you prefer it over mk11, but stating it that it is the better game its just a big ass fallacy.

Yeah... but we've been playing the final patch for over 4 years and it still doesn't get old. It's just a really fun game. In that game if I jail you, you're jailed end of discussion. I don't have to watch a 15 sec crap animation while furiously mashing A, I can pushes jump in's with NJPs. You're not going to have a lot of luck convincing anyone that MKX is worse in its current state than MK11.

There are move in MK11 that practically serve no purpose like Raiden's Jo Push and his amplified teleport.... why the fuck would I ever use that. MK11 needs someone on the dev team to sit down and seriously examine all of the poor decision making that went into making it. Injustice 2 and MKX in their current states are the only NRS games worth playing. MK9 and Injustice 1 were broken messes with P1 advantage, infinite resets, and snail like movement speed while MK11 is just a stress test of a human's patience.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

Yeah remember when Hakan, Dan, Honda, DeeJay, Blanka, T.Hawk won tournaments? Yeah me neither.
Or remember when Daigo switched to Yun, or how fun playing against Elena was?
Or fucking Akuma, Geese and that piece of shit Leeroy in T7?

The fuck are you smoking, have you even played the games you claim are better handled balance-wise than MK11?

MK11 is head and shoulders one of the most balanced most fighting games out there and in the process it can be a bit boring at times. You gotta pick one:

1.: Have a diverse cast of characters with exciting gameplay and decisions to make but have a clean cut top tier in the game.
2.: Have a game ruled by univsersal system mechanics and toned down specials that all do the same shit but the roster is relatively balanced.

There really isn't much in between.

Tekken is an outlier but what they do has the disadvantage of you having to be a walking Tekken encyclopedia that spans the last 20 years in order to get into the meat and potatoes of that game.

I did not say that SF4 was completely balanced. I said that it was way more balanced than mk11, which is not a difficult task by any means.

I played sf4 alot....you just could not win against a guy that was better than you at neutral and reactions....it was almost impossible, but in mk11....with all the incentives for kids to not abandon the game....look at dragons video man....

I think what you guys are saying to justify your positions is just not a criteria that should be used in order to evaluate if a game is balanced, fair.
1 - "Mkx was worse"....nice. So MK11 is good because is better than MKX. So....bad food in restaurant 2 is actually good because bad food in restaurant 1 was worse. What about look at the game....again...dragon summed that up to you guys...just watch that.
2 - A ton of characters in top 16....right: Just buff all the characters on the cast and give all of them bullshit. This is gonna lead to people think that the game is balanced. This centainly is gonna disguise the bullshit.
If the majority of the cast relly on bullshit to win....is this a fair game? I think NRS tactic is working...people really think that the game is fair because it has more characters in top 8 than previous games....but what they did was just put bullshit in everyone....is this balance?

Of course the game is what it is....people don't have a clue about anything....press buttons and be happy with jaccqui.

Look at how many times xinok just pressed shit....just did it....and konqueror lost! Konqueror is one the best players in mk11 at neutral in my opinion....
But hey....the game is balanced because mkx was worse and all the chars have bs so I can use my bs against another bs.

 

[BarakaTile]

MKX was so balanced and such an amazing game.

Someone should make a petition to have MKX at EVO 2022. The combos, the execution, the full viable roster... That's the fighting game we need right now.

That's not a bad idea. But I think it would be better if we put MK9 into EVO2022 and sell it as a comedy entrant.

After such dreary times with Covid and other things, we could all use a laugh at toptier Kabal.

 

[Marinjuana]

Was Tremor's f1 a high or his s2 a mid? I don't remember f1 ever being a mid, but I never played until after 10/4/16 patch. Aftershock and Crystaline are still considered S tier characters.

His S2 was a mid on release, didn't last long IIRC. Up rock was so good though dude lmao

Yeah a few of the DLC still top tier or up there, but some were extra busted on release