My Take On Kustoms For Competitive

[Hellbringer]

Imagine COD with custom weapons but you can only use limited customized weapons online, because BALANCE

 

[Ram]

TLdr, Customs are cool but dont hand me shit and tell me I can do whatever I want with it

The problem is that currently, we have NOT been handed shit (where shit = custom variations)

 

[Blewdew]

Kabal wouldn't change much at all with this, unfortunately. Sure, there's the aerial gas blast that could lead to some insane stuff, but it's really the only other move that he doesn't have competitive access to that would be worth a damn.

I think people would probably opt for Extended Hook (restand), Hook Grab (db2 launcher) and MAYBE Dash Cancel if not Gas Blast. If anything were to change, you'd probably see his air dash coupled with Hook Grab if the player can do without the restand from Extended Hook/Gas Blast.

Low Hook? Unsafe. Leads to nothing. Pass.
Low Buzz Saw? What is this even in the game for? Pass.
Parry? Never even touched it, so I have no idea about how viable it is. Likely a pass.
Dash Cancel? Not worth the cost of a defensive bar when being +2 and not being able to really do much with it. Pass.
Low Hook Spin? I see this used more as a combo ender than extender in most cases and can likely be done without. Pass.
Straight Air Buzz Saw? Give me the utility of his normal air projectile any day. Pass.
Nomad Spin? What is this even in the game for? Pass.
Gas Blast? Good for keeping yourself safe, is a restand and can be used to heal yourself when amplified when not used on block/hit. Can be a viable option.
Air Gas Blast? This seems like the biggest game changer for how Kabal would play in its current state. I haven't put much time into it and my execution/creativity is sorely lacking, so I'm not the one to find out its potential. While it likely wouldn't lead to pre-patch levels of Upgraded oppression, it may allow Kabal to be extremely annoying. If Kustoms were ever allowed, I'd expect this to have the biggest presence over anything else provided it doesn't end up being shit.

I'm fairly certain Kabal isn't the only character that would suffer from not much, if anything changing with a Kustom loadout that's better than what's already available.

I'd be for this, but it would be a balancing nightmare. No joke. Almost everything would need to get some sort of an overhaul to either tune it up or down for competitive use and we see how well NRS did with that with just the addition of third variations.

I don't have enough faith in NRS to pull this off successfully. It would probably cause a lot more harm than good in the grand scheme of things. People are clamoring for a balance patch and that's just for what's currently competitive. Imagine NRS trying to rebalance 50~ abilities to be used competitively all at once. I'd rather not.

But hey, maybe that's why the patch everyone wants is currently taking so long (I'm also factoring the pandemic into this as well): perhaps they're trying to balance everything for competitive use. That's just wishful thinking, however. I just hope if they do this that they do it right and don't turn it all into one giant clusterfuck.

kabal is a pretty bad example for optimal loadouts, I think his abilities are actually a good example for how it would add depth to the game and you're not really giving the moves the credit they deserve because a lot of them are actually better than you make them out to be.

for example you say you think dash cancel isn't worth using. now if you'd look at his current the spins variation if you'd exchange his low spinner with the dash cancel you now wouldn't have to poke in the corner after gas blast restand to condition your opponent to not press a button after it because you now have a 6f mid hit confirmable launcher that is plus on block.

and this just the tip of the iceberg.
you want to have a high damage variation that focusses on kabals air game which is one of his strongest points? use air gas blast and hook grab and you now have 40% midscreen bnb's of every air touch.
you want to play kabal as a hard to get into zoning tank? use low buzzsaw so you have have 3 different angles for projectiles, flash parry so you have a meterless launching parry(!!!) to counter their approaches and low hook grab to move them back to fullscreen
you want an offensive bully kabal? use gas blast, dash cancel and either low spinner to get corner carry from anywhere on screen or hook grab to get optimal damage and a good way to setup up gas blast restand in the corner into cancel pressure

with the current variations kabal already has this would give kabal already 6 choices of perfectly viable variations which all serve their purpose and there are definitely more.

don't take this offensively but please enlighten me how this doesn't add depth to the character.

 

[Eldriken]

kabal is a pretty bad example for optimal loadouts, I think his abilities are actually a good example for how it would add depth to the game and you're not really giving the moves the credit they deserve because a lot of them are actually better than you make them out to be.

for example you say you think dash cancel isn't worth using. now if you'd look at his current the spins variation if you'd exchange his low spinner with the dash cancel you now wouldn't have to poke in the corner after gas blast restand to condition your opponent to not press a button after it because you now have a 6f mid hit confirmable launcher that is plus on block.

and this just the tip of the iceberg.
you want to have a high damage variation that focusses on kabals air game which is one of his strongest points? use air gas blast and hook grab and you now have 40% midscreen bnb's of every air touch.
you want to play kabal as a hard to get into zoning tank? use low buzzsaw so you have have 3 different angles for projectiles, flash parry so you have a meterless launching parry(!!!) to counter their approaches and low hook grab to move them back to fullscreen
you want an offensive bully kabal? use gas blast, dash cancel and either low spinner to get corner carry from anywhere on screen or hook grab to get optimal damage and a good way to setup up gas blast restand in the corner into cancel pressure

with the current variations kabal already has this would give kabal already 6 choices of perfectly viable variations which all serve their purpose and there are definitely more.

don't take this offensively but please enlighten me how this doesn't add depth to the character.

Well, when you put it the way you did, I was clearly way off. I can't argue any of those points, really. lol

He's got more depth than I was willing to give him credit for. Thanks for the breakdown, my guy.

 

[Blewdew]

Well, when you put it the way you did, I was clearly way off. I can't argue any of those points, really. lol

He's got more depth than I was willing to give him credit for. Thanks for the breakdown, my guy.

kabal is in the lucky spot that he's already great without any custom moves plus all of his custom moves are good beside nomad spin but I'm sure there are way more characters with more than 3 viable loadouts if customs would be allowed.
this is one of the reasons why i don't buy this "customs won't bring any depth to the game" argument at all.

 

[Blade4693]

Kreate another Kombat League but for kustom variations. We'll call it....wait for it.....Kustoms League.

I'll take my payment now.

 

[John_NX]

How about they add more abilities in each variation to make them more "unique" and "complete"?

 

[ruthlezz97]

Guys,there really ain't a single reason for you to argue and create drama and all that stuff. Discussons are cool and fine,but as somebody who mains Raiden,who watches other characters get much needed fixes and buffs whil mine remains shit for 12 months let me just tell you this. Customs will be shitshow of unimaginable proportions because NRS does not know how to balance the game. Nobody can sadly convince me otherwise since Truth and Light exists in same realm of possibilities as Upgraded Jacqui or Outtake Johnny. There are so many ways to make characters like Raiden fun and interesting and I simply know it wont happen since NRS has this fetish for all of us to play Geras,Cetrion and Jacqui if we want to have fun.

 

[MsMiharo]

I don't see how that is a problem. Raiden players seem to think that Raiden without a teleport is no longer Raiden. Not accounting for NRS adding an extra move to the base characters, if people think it's that beneficial then it will always get added in customs, effectively limiting the custom options.

Then you could argue that characters should have an extra move added, but going back to your point, you'll have characters that have even less options to customise with because there's one less ability to choose from.

Well it's not a problem per se, but it's a talking point. Some characters simply don't have the depth others do, in terms of interesting/available moves and thus will not have depth added.

 

[BarakaTile]

Kreate another Kombat League but for kustom variations. We'll call it....wait for it.....Kustoms League.

I'll take my payment now.

Nah here's what you do, Kombat League remains the same but you get a new option to toggle Locked Variation or Unlocked Variations.

Even though they ruined Kollector's chakram to be useless EVEN IN KUSTOM I would still like to play Baraka in new different ways while earning skins and gear from KL.

 

[MsMiharo]

Nah here's what you do, Kombat League remains the same but you get a new option to toggle Locked Variation or Unlocked Variations.

Even though they ruined Kollector's chakram to be useless EVEN IN KUSTOM I would still like to play Baraka in new different ways while earning skins and gear from KL.

Baraka with spine burst and gutted lesssssgo

 

[John Grizzly]

Why is no one talking about how long it would take for both people to create their custom characters in actual tournaments.

First off, right now that wouldn't matter for shit. EVERYONE IS PLAYING ONLINE. That means everyone has their custom variations immediately ready to go.

Secondly, how long do people really think this shit would take? Did people complain during UMVC3 days when each player had to choose 3 characters AND 3 assists? No, because it took seconds.

For whenever offline tournaments start again, have the character with his base set of moves and whatever number of additional moves to add in a quick drop menu or something. To me, this is an absolute non-factor.

Furthermore, I see a lot of people complaining that everyone would just use the same loadout anyway because there would be a "best" combination. If the slots were completely removed and you could just add 5 moves, lets say, then we would AT LEAST have something that feels like an ACTUAL COMPLETE CHARACTER. IMAGINE THAT! (Aside from Shao Kahn, who would still suck, even with access to all his custom moves)

 

[Juggs]

Here’s my take on kustom variations.

In the beta, I absolutely loved the idea. It gave it an RPG-esque feel to an actual competitive fighting game. Really reminiscent of Dark Souls PvP for me honestly.

I understand that people say that it’s an “illusion of choice” and that you would just find the most optimal combination of variation moves and everyone would just use that combination. But, that to me isn’t a very good, or strong argument against kustom variations. I also don’t think that is something that would be an unavoidable inevitability.

The fact is, that options are never a bad thing to me. The more options you have, the better. I completely understand the “hard to balance” argument, or the “the game hasn’t been balanced with kustom variations in mind” argument.

My thing is, just because a specific kustom variation might be the most optimal, that doesn’t mean it would be the only variation combo that would be used. Moreover, how much of a difference is that to how it is now anyway? People in general still use the most overall optimal tournament variation. And besides that point, with kustoms you still would be able to at least use the character that YOU want to use. Beta Scorpion was the most fun I’ve had playing this game. The beta in general was the most fun I’ve had playing MK11. Seeing all the different combinations people were using, and really trying to make your own work, was just a really fun and UNIQUE aspect and experience for a fighting game.

For me personally, if kustom variations were allowed from the beginning and NRS attempted to balance the game around them, MK11 would potentially be not only my most favorite NRS game, but my most favorite MK game overall. And that says a lot coming from me, since as most of you know, I’m a UMK3 and MKT diehard fanatic.

It’s just incredibly disappointing that there’s so many close-minded people that wouldn’t even want to TRY it out. That there’s so many people who somehow think they know with 100% certainty what the outcome would be. The only way to be 100% certain would have been to actually try it out. And it’s unfortunate that that isn’t the route that was taken. MK11 had the most potential, imo, to be a legendary game. To waste that much potential is just depressing is all.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

I'll just say the few nights I get bored and play kustom kasuals I've had some fun experiences.

 

[Hellbringer]

Ppl who daily post about how bad the game is shouldnt be allowed to make comments in threads like this. Just go on with your daily crying and leave topics like these to ppl who still play the game or atleast dont trash the game all the time.

 

[Marlow]

I've been spending a lot of time and energy researching this.

sure, why not?

 

[M2Dave]

It’s just incredibly disappointing that there’s so many close-minded people that wouldn’t even want to TRY it out.

In the last 12 hours alone, I have seen Foxy, Hayatei, TJ Dizzy, Mr. Aquaman, and Sonic Fox use custom variations. People have been trying them out. There have even been online tournaments that included them. So nobody is preventing anyone from using them.

If people want more online tournaments with custom variations, they can talk to Mr. Aquaman, but perhaps most people know that custom variations would cause a lot of imbalances so people like Prince Panther refuse to sponsor them.

 

[Juggs]

In the last 12 hours alone, I have seen Foxy, Hayatei, TJ Dizzy, Mr. Aquaman, and Sonic Fox use custom variations. People have been trying them out. There have even been online tournaments that included them. So nobody is preventing anyone from using them.

If people want more online tournaments with custom variations, they can talk to Mr. Aquaman, but perhaps most people know that custom variations would cause a lot of imbalances so people like Prince Panther refuse to sponsor them.

That’s great to hear. And obviously that means they don’t belong in the “too close-minded to try them out” category. And I didn’t say anyone was preventing anyone from using them, so not sure why you said that.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

I think one reason I'm open to Kustoms is bc at my skill level and against those similar to me, I feel like I can still win with a non-optimal build. At the high lvls like Cherny is talking about, I do believe it's true people will just settle on OP builds bc people love gettin on OP characters in this game. Watching tournaments would be like the continued Upgraded and Outtake slurpfest we've seen for months.

I have fun with a challenge, I play for fun so.

Prob should have a Kustom League, that option sounds like it could be a good time.

 

[Blewdew]

In the last 12 hours alone, I have seen Foxy, Hayatei, TJ Dizzy, Mr. Aquaman, and Sonic Fox use custom variations. People have been trying them out. There have even been online tournaments that included them. So nobody is preventing anyone from using them.

If people want more online tournaments with custom variations, they can talk to Mr. Aquaman, but perhaps most people know that custom variations would cause a lot of imbalances so people like Prince Panther refuse to sponsor them.

Tournament hosts could ban certain custom moves/loadouts in this case though so imbalances in the regard of balancing could be prevented this way for example terminators infinite armor move etc.

 

[DarkSado]

First off, right now that wouldn't matter for shit. EVERYONE IS PLAYING ONLINE. That means everyone has their custom variations immediately ready to go.

Secondly, how long do people really think this shit would take? Did people complain during UMVC3 days when each player had to choose 3 characters AND 3 assists? No, because it took seconds.

For whenever offline tournaments start again, have the character with his base set of moves and whatever number of additional moves to add in a quick drop menu or something. To me, this is an absolute non-factor.

Furthermore, I see a lot of people complaining that everyone would just use the same loadout anyway because there would be a "best" combination. If the slots were completely removed and you could just add 5 moves, lets say, then we would AT LEAST have something that feels like an ACTUAL COMPLETE CHARACTER. IMAGINE THAT! (Aside from Shao Kahn, who would still suck, even with access to all his custom moves)

Yea but umvc 3 was preset assist it was not custom

 

[Ram]

Yea but umvc 3 was preset assist it was not custom

???

I think the analogy is that just like players selected 3 characters and 3 assists very quickly in UMVC3 in a tournament setting, MK11 players could select 1 character and 1-3 custom moves quickly in a tournament setting as well. Therefore, all that needs to be added by NRS is some UI at the character-select screen that enables this.

 

[DarkSado]

???

I think the analogy is that just like players selected 3 characters and 3 assists very quickly in UMVC3 in a tournament setting, MK11 players could select 1 character and 1-3 custom moves quickly in a tournament setting as well. Therefore, all that needs to be added by NRS is some UI at the character-select screen that enables this.

I get the analogy but going thru menus and deciding which move will counter pick is going take a while In mvc3 all that stuff was in versus menu. Street fighter x tekken Try to do this with the gem system fail miserably.

 

[craftycheese]

I get the analogy but going thru menus and deciding which move will counter pick is going take a while In mvc3 all that stuff was in versus menu

But wouldn't adding some UI in the character select screen that they're saying NRS could do be the same thing?

 

[DarkSado]

But wouldn't adding some UI in the character select screen that they're saying NRS could do be the same thing?

They can but how long will take? judging how bad these patches been lately at that point we might as well get new game