My Take On Kustoms For Competitive

[DragonofDadashov24]

What did it change though? Some characters got their new "go to" variations. Avalanche, Upgraded, Outtake,...Majority just went to those. Wouldn't the same happen with customs?

I think avalnche’s shit

 

[ticklebandit!]

just make a completely separate "kustom tournament mode"

This! Just make the mode and see how it goes. Even if it was a train wreck it could be entertaining. Maybe they're reluctant because it would put more pressure for balance patches to come out faster?? Looking at you Sub zero with that fuckin ice puddle...

 

[chr1sam]

What did it change though? Some characters got their new "go to" variations. Avalanche, Upgraded, Outtake,...Majority just went to those. Wouldn't the same happen with customs?

I still saw jacqui players using 1st round ko. I saw johnnys using all three variations.

If they hadn't nerfed the shit out of kollectors bolo I'm sure all of his variations would have saw use as well.

The patch definitely upped the variety in the game but it didn't change things too drastically.

But obviously you can imagine the difference between adding one new variation per character Vs. giving all characters the ability to choose like 10 - 20 different custom variations.

If you add one variation and that variation isn't very good(like kollector's 3rd) than obviously it changes nothing for the character. But if you give players the creative freedom to create their own variation they will figure out the best combination of moves that they should take for their play style and for the character/player that they are facing. In that way you would see a lot of uniqueness in the tournament scene. Some Jacquis might use Upgraded just like it is. Some might trade out the ground pound for the clinch, maybe even the air blast for the knee.

 

[dungeonsector]

I actually really like the idea of adding more special moves to tournament variations. 3 slots always felt so limited to me.

 

[Edmund]

I’m pro custom, AFTER they evaluate each move individually before allowing it

 

[The_Tile]

Customs should have been allowed from the start. The beta was so fun and by now we would be well on the way to a balanced game but with a lot more variety and a lot more fun. No doubt in my mind customs should have been allowed day 1.

When people talk about the balance of it people don't actually realise it would give NRS a lot more freedom and creativity when it comes to balancing. Broken move combination? Make them incompatible with each other, both moves stay just as strong but the broken synergy has gone. They could make moves cost more slots, fiddle with the amount of slots available and that's on top of the traditional balancing like frame data changes etc.

Now it becomes a very difficult conversation though imo. We're a year in and it could potentially swing either way if customs were allowed. A lot of the balancing done so far would be a waste of time. It could definitely shake up the meta and make the game exponentially more fun if handled properly, but could also completely ruin the balance of the game and as we're already a year in, this could put a lot of people off who as its essentially be like starting at day 1 again in terms of balance.

My heart says I really want customs but I really don't know where I stand on it right now

 

[Archgamer]

People here keep saying customs will make the game better. But I'm already thinking two steps ahead of everybody.

Customs will no longer be called customs when the player figures out the best combination and stick with it. It will become universal for everybody.

 

[Quantrell Jones]

Why is no one talking about how long it would take for both people to create their custom characters in actual tournaments. Not only would that increase the amount of time needed for MK to be ran you increase the amount of time you need to run the whole thing due to set-ups being unusable, and other things. Now you are gonna have people customizing, doing button checks, and ect. On the balance side of things. NRS has barely the knowledge to make hitboxes on the game that make sense. We have mids that get low profiled. moves that have hitboxes that extend behind characters. anti-airs are still hit or miss for alot of characters. I shouldn't have to flawless block to anti-air. Flawless block should not have such leniency in the input that you can option select it to break throws, and punish. You have characters who base moveset are so good that the added moves only makes them better.


Look if you give liu kang his low fireball as a base move (WHICH IT ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE BEEN) plus more slots you now have a Lui Kang that can perform good stagger pressure, zone, has a command grab, a parry, and with added slots possibly a stance or teleport.
That's insane for that one character to have the ability to do everything in the game in one custom variation.
Look at Spawn. Imagine if every variation of spawn could just negate break away. He would fundamentally break a key mechanic in the game while also doing dumb dmg due to the hellspawn charge, a restand, and idk what custom slots could even add to it but it cant be fun.

Yall are asking for them to do something that the game is not balanced around. Yall are asking them to do something that is inconvenient to TO's and you are asking them to balance the game around something and they haven't even fixed the issues with things that are already here. How many characters would be better if they received the same treatment Kitana got where certain things were unbreakable thus allowing them to actually increase their dmg output by actually allowing them to do dmg? How many characters would benefit from not having mids low profiled due to low hitboxes? How many would be better if the whole female hitbox issue was solved and allowed characters to functionally use their pressure? Customs are only gonna exacerbate the issues already present in the game imo

 

[Error404]

The moves that you want to use now will probably be nerfed if customs are ever a thing.

IMO we would be better of if every current variation got an additional move / some others are made into base moves.

 

[M2Dave]

When people talk about the balance of it people don't actually realise it would give NRS a lot more freedom and creativity when it comes to balancing. Broken move combination? Make them incompatible with each other, both moves stay just as strong but the broken synergy has gone. They could make moves cost more slots, fiddle with the amount of slots available and that's on top of the traditional balancing like frame data changes etc.

I am sorry, but this argument does not even make any sense mathematically. Balancing additional special moves and the possible combinations of special moves, which is essentially what custom variations are, is a lot more difficult than balancing special moves in a predetermined circumstance, which is essentially what tournament variations are. Players are the ones who would gain a lot more freedom, creativity, and exploration from custom variations, but the burden would be on NRS to regulate this mess.

Customs will no longer be called customs when the player figures out the best combination and stick with it. It will become universal for everybody.

Well-said, although I believe there would be characters with a couple of viable custom variations depending on the match up. For example, Shang Tsung's best overall custom variation would arguably be ground eruption and shake, yet shake has limited use versus a character like Geras because low sand trap cannot be parried. So a Shang Tsung player may want to replace shake with another special move.

By the way, certain characters like Cetrion and Kitana may already have access to their best special moves in one variation in Spring Cleaning and Highborn respectively.

The moves that you want to use now will probably be nerfed if customs are ever a thing.

Exactly. Remember when Scorpion players begged NRS for Misery Blade when Mortal Kombat 11 was released? But then NRS made the move require meter and everybody stopped caring. LOL.

Speaking of nerfs, Terminator's infinite armor and Spawn's "easy krushing blows on" special move could use some if some of you are going to advocate for this mess.

 

[fr stack]

im gona be real there , this game isnt boring some of you only play 1 or 2 characters pick more and maybe you will enjoy the game again. The only thing this game needs is new game modes and fun ones. What about a tag team gamemode like in mk9 you could do towers with a friend or go online tag team kombat league.
that way we wont fuck up the whole game just because we bored.

Mk9 i played the same 3 chars and never got bored
Mkx i played spectral ermac and cyrax triborg and never got bored 6 years later still trying new shit in practice
Mk11 i learned noobs max damage in a week and i dont have the ocd required to learn character specific option selects as tech
Point being the characters were fully developed which kept me engaged for years

 

[FullLifeguard]

Chernyy Volk is like a bad anime villian— nobody gives a fuck what he wants

.....Yet youre still here commenting on his posts

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

.....Yet youre still here commenting on his posts

I’m on his payroll

 

[spidey300]

First of all, I am not against customizable variations. People can enjoy Mortal Kombat 11 however they choose. On the other hand, customizable variations would very likely cause massive balancing problems considering NRS have been adjusting the game around tournament variations for a whole year. By allowing customizable variations, how many new special moves are being introduced to competitive gameplay? 60 at least? NRS would need another year to balance the game. In the process of balancing, many of these moves would ultimately get normalized or undergo slot reassignment, which would create lots of controversy in the community.

Speaking of slots, you can create combinations that people would almost instantly complain about. For example, you can equip low forceball, rising star, and shades to Cage so that you keep the safe special move and your best zoning tool but acquire comeback potential. A Sub Zero player can equip the EX iceball that destroys other projectiles, the creeping ice, and the slide. A Noob player can customize variations that do 40%+ of damage every touch.

How long would customizable variations last in this community before people beg Paulo for nerfs?

What do you even care about the balance of the game Dave

 

[spidey300]

Let them rock. What's there to lose

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Think they are balancing the variations at the moment. I played Scorp with his fire specials and his flame advancing move is shit on block. Absolutely garbage variation with cool looking moves. Hope they do something about his anti air meterless combos.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I wanna say that I agree with the premise of the thread that if custom moves are retooled, a functional tournament mode could have them.

Eventually though, people are gonna have to let MK11 be MK11. Every community in gaming can get really frustrated when a game comes out that's drastically different than the last one in how it plays.

 

[theotherguy]

I’d rather it be unbalanced.

Now you're saying balance doesn't matter? So if that's the case why does everyone complain about the OP characters after every patch and threads galore about how NRS can't balance shit? Seems they're doing a damn fine job then if balance is irrelevant.

And this is in a game that is generally perceived to be pretty well balanced overall.

Now imagine how it would be when it's a free for all because half the cast can melt your lifebar off any touch because of unbalanced bullshit shenanigans.

Majority just went to those. Wouldn't the same happen with customs?

You would think most people would. Unless you have a specific reason to use some random loadout, 99% of the time you'd stick with what is determined to be the best and gives you the best chance at winning. Really no different to the current variations, just that the community will find the best ones instead of being given them.

The real fun part will be about 3weeks after it happens and seeing everyone start complaining about how the game still isn't fun/is broken and all the fixes/changes NRS should have done instead to fix it.

just make a completely separate "kustom tournament mode"

The game already has way too many splits in players between ranked, kasual- custom/tournament, rooms. Adding another will just exacerbate that. Although i can see why people might want it separate from the normal ranked matches.

Maybe make the downtime between the KL seasons in ranked allow customs for a trial. See how things play out, get some feedback and work things out from there. If there's a lot of positive feedback then make it a thing, if not, then back to working things out to see if it can happen.

 

[Eldriken]

Kabal wouldn't change much at all with this, unfortunately. Sure, there's the aerial gas blast that could lead to some insane stuff, but it's really the only other move that he doesn't have competitive access to that would be worth a damn.

I think people would probably opt for Extended Hook (restand), Hook Grab (db2 launcher) and MAYBE Dash Cancel if not Gas Blast. If anything were to change, you'd probably see his air dash coupled with Hook Grab if the player can do without the restand from Extended Hook/Gas Blast.

Low Hook? Unsafe. Leads to nothing. Pass.
Low Buzz Saw? What is this even in the game for? Pass.
Parry? Never even touched it, so I have no idea about how viable it is. Likely a pass.
Dash Cancel? Not worth the cost of a defensive bar when being +2 and not being able to really do much with it. Pass.
Low Hook Spin? I see this used more as a combo ender than extender in most cases and can likely be done without. Pass.
Straight Air Buzz Saw? Give me the utility of his normal air projectile any day. Pass.
Nomad Spin? What is this even in the game for? Pass.
Gas Blast? Good for keeping yourself safe, is a restand and can be used to heal yourself when amplified when not used on block/hit. Can be a viable option.
Air Gas Blast? This seems like the biggest game changer for how Kabal would play in its current state. I haven't put much time into it and my execution/creativity is sorely lacking, so I'm not the one to find out its potential. While it likely wouldn't lead to pre-patch levels of Upgraded oppression, it may allow Kabal to be extremely annoying. If Kustoms were ever allowed, I'd expect this to have the biggest presence over anything else provided it doesn't end up being shit.

I'm fairly certain Kabal isn't the only character that would suffer from not much, if anything changing with a Kustom loadout that's better than what's already available.

I'd be for this, but it would be a balancing nightmare. No joke. Almost everything would need to get some sort of an overhaul to either tune it up or down for competitive use and we see how well NRS did with that with just the addition of third variations.

I don't have enough faith in NRS to pull this off successfully. It would probably cause a lot more harm than good in the grand scheme of things. People are clamoring for a balance patch and that's just for what's currently competitive. Imagine NRS trying to rebalance 50~ abilities to be used competitively all at once. I'd rather not.

But hey, maybe that's why the patch everyone wants is currently taking so long (I'm also factoring the pandemic into this as well): perhaps they're trying to balance everything for competitive use. That's just wishful thinking, however. I just hope if they do this that they do it right and don't turn it all into one giant clusterfuck.

 

[Eldriken]

Maybe make the downtime between the KL seasons in ranked allow customs for a trial. See how things play out, get some feedback and work things out from there. If there's a lot of positive feedback then make it a thing, if not, then back to working things out to see if it can happen.

THIS. It's seriously the perfect opportunity to do it and it would probably give the community something to look forward to.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

What I don't understand is why people are so unwilling to give customs a chance and why they think they 100% know what will happen if customs is allowed...

"it wont change anything"

Well lets do it and see..If it doesn't change anything then nothing of value will be lost. This game is dying. No matter what anyone here says...once you get outside of this forum most people will tell you they neither enjoy playing or watching this game. Now you could say that's just biased people hating on other games but look at a game like Tekken 7. That game is getting love from all corners of the FGC even they ones that don't like Tekken.

This game needs something to make it more interesting and instead of trying to come up with something new why not used what they already built?

And stop pretending you know what customs will do to the game.

I remember brady was a reo's podcast when 3rd variations were announced and he said something like 'it won't change anything',
a few weeks later when 3rd variations came out he made a video talking about how the 3rd variations really shook things up and made sub-zero more interesting.

I know and many others know because a lot of us have been playing kustoms on the side, labbing and experimenting. The topic is too complicated to address about the third variations point, but third variations DID NOT shake things up in the long term. Just Johnny.

Trust me. This does not provide the freedom to people they think it does. I've actually ground this shit out with top players and known personalities and the game becomes MORE shallow because of how optimal the optimal move loadouts become. You're also ignoring the logistical aspect, that NRS cannot be trusted to balance all these tools in a vacuum.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Customs should have been allowed from the start. The beta was so fun and by now we would be well on the way to a balanced game but with a lot more variety and a lot more fun. No doubt in my mind customs should have been allowed day 1.

When people talk about the balance of it people don't actually realise it would give NRS a lot more freedom and creativity when it comes to balancing. Broken move combination? Make them incompatible with each other, both moves stay just as strong but the broken synergy has gone. They could make moves cost more slots, fiddle with the amount of slots available and that's on top of the traditional balancing like frame data changes etc.

Now it becomes a very difficult conversation though imo. We're a year in and it could potentially swing either way if customs were allowed. A lot of the balancing done so far would be a waste of time. It could definitely shake up the meta and make the game exponentially more fun if handled properly, but could also completely ruin the balance of the game and as we're already a year in, this could put a lot of people off who as its essentially be like starting at day 1 again in terms of balance.

My heart says I really want customs but I really don't know where I stand on it right now

If you had kept playing the beta you would've realized that the kustoms were an illusion and there was no actual freedom of choice. We figured out optimal variations within 24 hours it was so obvious.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I guess I'm going to have to address this in full since @The_Tile is bringing out the bad arguments.

IF YOU ALLOW KUSTOMS, OPEN THE DOOR TO NERFING THE,/ADDING MORE RESTRICTIONS THAT TAKES THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF THE KUSTOM SYSTEM OUT ALTOGETHER AND NOW YOU'RE TAKING THE APPEAL AND FUN OUT OF IT FOR EVERYBODY. IT IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE ANSWER TO SAY "If a certain move combination is broken just add a restriction/just nerf this broken move" BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT THE KUSTOMS SPECIFICALLY TO HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE. NOT TO SEE THE GAME NEUTERED FURTHER TO THE POINT WHERE EVERYTHING FUN IS BEING GUTTED.

 

[Arqwart]

I'm of the mind that if customs had been around from the start, it'd have worked due to consistent patching from release till now which could have helped alleviate many balance issues that would have been around.

Now that we're a year into the game's life and balance patches have been exclusively focused on the tournament variations, I dont see full customs in ranked and pro play working due to how horrendous the balance would suddenly be. NRS would have to put in tons of balance work immediately to deal with the absolute shit moves and absolutely mandatory moves. As Cherny has said, the optimal variations would be decided upon almost immediately, especially since so many of the non-tournament moves are a fucking joke right now.

 

[M2Dave]

For those of you who may be curious about the conversation with Cherny and King Jr., REO decided not to upload the podcast on YouTube because of excessive drama. LOL.