Upgraded. Most. Broken. Character. For all MK11. History. Delete her. Please. NRS. Please

[LMNYHappyDaze]

That's not the impression I've been getting at all.

If the community felt the character "needs minor adjustments", no one would say she's carrying folks so hard the way they do.

From what I'm seeing, "minor adjustments" means castrate the character lol.

In every discussion, no matter the topic, you have extremes on every side. No one really wants the character to deleted because upgraded is one of the more visually interesting ones in the game. But when u have a character that forces ppl to block the whole game and pick their spots, it can lead to hard feelings of salt and feeling like the character carries because you never even got to play. For the ppl who say they want the character deleted and for those of us that are reasonable we all fall inside the same “pls tone this character down” camp. Because honestly, Liu Johnny, Geras, Sonya and Cassie got nerfed for way less than this. There hasn’t been a character in mk11 that has caused this much anger. She moves and plays like a DBFZ character lol

 

[THTB]

In every discussion, no matter the topic, you have extremes on every side. No one really wants the character to deleted because upgraded is one of the more visually interesting ones in the game. But when u have a character that forces ppl to block the whole game and pick their spots, it can lead to hard feelings of salt and feeling like the character carries because you never even got to play. For the ppl who say they want the character deleted and for those of us that are reasonable we all fall inside the same “pls tone this character down” camp. Because honestly, Liu Johnny, Geras, Sonya and Cassie got nerfed for way less than this. There hasn’t been a character in mk11 that has caused this much anger. She moves and plays like a DBFZ character lol

Ngl, even in this reply, that impression is being given that she needs to be obliterated. "There hasn't been a character in mk11 that has caused this much anger" "u have a character that forces ppl to block the whole game and pick their spots"

If Upgraded simply needed minor adjustments in everyone's eyes, comments on her such as your own wouldn't even be a thought. I see this particular feeling all over Twitter when it comes to this character.

Minor adjustments implies "hey, this character is very strong, possibly too strong...a few small changes could remedy that". Not "This character causes anger and forces you to block an entire game".

 

[M2Dave]

Isn’t that what the majority of us have been saying? Why is it so difficult for some ppl to admit the character is a little too strong. I know y’all got y’all elder MK guru thing going on but be honest and transparent. This character is dumb and I’m all for minor adjustments

I neither said nor implied that she was not a strong character. I personally believe she is a top tier character and in the same boat as Cetrion, Johnny Cage, Geras, and Liu Kang. She may even be "overpowered", but we have to wait and see what happens in the finals next month. How am I dishonest and nontransparent for stating all of this? If anything is dumb, it is this thread and the overreaction that it has caused.

There hasn’t been a character in mk11 that has caused this much anger. She moves and plays like a DBFZ character lol

Right.

Remember Liu Kang? Johnny Cage? Or remember when the game was supposed to die because of the option select?

People are freaking out about everything when Mortal Kombat 11 is most definitely the tamest fighting game that NRS have ever released in terms of the broken stuff. I have been watching REO's nostalgic Mortal Kombat 9 videos on YouTube and the tools that the bottom 5-7 had in that game would be considered broken in this game.

 

[Gojira Prime]

Your missing the point.

 

[mastermalone]

Liliputic....mmm ima learn a new word

He is referencing Liliput, the fictional island from the Gulliver's Travels story. All of the inhabitants of the island were about 3-6 inches tall. Gulliver was seen as a threatening giant and was tied up when he washes ashore unconscious after a shipwreck at sea. There was a cartoon made in the 1940's for this story. It was quite good.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Ngl, even in this reply, that impression is being given that she needs to be obliterated. "There hasn't been a character in mk11 that has caused this much anger" "u have a character that forces ppl to block the whole game and pick their spots"

If Upgraded simply needed minor adjustments in everyone's eyes, comments on her such as your own wouldn't even be a thought. I see this particular feeling all over Twitter when it comes to this character.

Minor adjustments implies "hey, this character is very strong, possibly too strong...a few small changes could remedy that". Not "This character causes anger and forces you to block an entire game".

^This.....

I neither said nor implied that she was not a strong character. I personally believe she is a top tier character and in the same boat as Cetrion, Johnny Cage, Geras, and Liu Kang. She may even be "overpowered", but we have to wait and see what happens in the finals next month. How am I dishonest and nontransparent for stating all of this? If anything is dumb, it is this thread and the overreaction that it has caused.



Right.

Remember Liu Kang? Johnny Cage? Or remember when the game was supposed to die because of the option select?

People are freaking out about everything when Mortal Kombat 11 is most definitely the tamest fighting game that NRS have ever released in terms of the broken stuff. I have been watching REO's nostalgic Mortal Kombat 9 videos on YouTube and the tools that the bottom 5-7 had in that game would be considered broken in this game.

^.....and this.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

People are freaking out about everything when Mortal Kombat 11 is most definitely the tamest fighting game that NRS have ever released in terms of the broken stuff. I have been watching REO's nostalgic Mortal Kombat 9 videos on YouTube and the tools that the bottom 5-7 had in that game would be considered broken in this game.

Facts.
Tame is the perfect word to describe MK11.

I don't want Jacqui to not be ridiculous; I want everyone to have the same chance to be ridiculous that she does. THEN we'll see how insane she really is.
I would rather deal an insane challenge than lose to 123~2x Bicycle Kick or Rising Star shenanigans. I miss when matchups were special because everyone came with their own dirt you had to be prepared for.
And Upgraded is not something you can pick up in an hour. It's spicy and difficult, at least compared to everyone else on the execution curve. I feel like MK11 needs spice desperately.

 

[MKF30]

Just want to say using just tourneys only doesn't define whether or not a character is busted or not balanced. It just means those players don't pick the character or in some cases aren't using her to full potential. People hated Kenshi in MK 9 as one of the top 5 characters in the game, yet only one guy pig was known for using him a lot and doing well at tourneys. It doesn't make him any less OP online though, in fact probably worse since with any lag that made the tops even more hard to deal with(like this game)

Personally, I don't think NRS has to "destroy her" but definitely needs a Nerf easily OR they buff everyone else up to her level. Either or, and since it's just easier to do the former. It's just common sense at this point. I get it there's obviously pro Jacqui players in here regardless who's willing to admit it, we all have our favs but when majority of the roster literally have no chance against her it's just not a fun game nor experience to deal with. I played a laggy Upgraded other day I just left because there was no point. I spoke with the guy asking "you have fun doing that lag switching while using the most busted dumb character in the game?" His responce "yes I love making people leave and she's the easiest broke character to win with so why not"? lol I mean ok NRS if you want bozos with no skill to just do this to win in KL, ok then. But if your game to be respected and balanced, you have to address this shit.

That is fun AF, that is like some sort of sect, where is no s-broken braindead tiers and all whining on broken shit, like upgraded is haram and tref and unholy herecy
Burn in fire those heretics, who believed in s-tiers!

lol pretty much. I mean it's one thing for some people to enjoy MK 11, fine they have fun with it. More power to them, but when someone starts defending Upgraded or trying to say it's not "broken" at all there's a problem. Called denial lol.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Just want to say using just tourneys only doesn't define whether or not a character is busted or not balanced. It just means those players don't pick the character or in some cases aren't using her to full potential. People hated Kenshi in MK 9 as one of the top 5 characters in the game, yet only one guy pig was known for using him a lot and doing well at tourneys. It doesn't make him any less OP online though, in fact probably worse since with any lag that made the tops even more hard to deal with(like this game)

This is only because our community was literally brand new. We didn't know how these games worked and couldn't break them down as quickly, didn't even have frame data at the start (until Somberness took the time to find it), and a lot of our best players at first weren't exclusive to these games.

Kenshi was late DLC and therefore people didn't start figuring him out nearly as early. Eventually even Dizzy had a Kenshi, Forever King had a Kenshi, lots of top players were able to use him at a high level.

In 2020 our community is in a completely different state. There's a lot more money on the line and competitions have bigger stakes. Enough people have experience with figuring out meta for NRS characters that top players simply pick up whoever they feel is best in order to win. As evidenced by the fact that Sonic, Ninja, Kevo, Kombat etc. have a pool of characters that's included multiple people playing Liu Kang, multiple people playing Johnny Cage, multiple people playing Geras, Sonya, Cassie, and whoever else people have found to be the best.

Please, please stop comparing every single thing to MK9. It's a different time and the community is much different than it was back then.

 

[MKF30]

This is only because our community was literally brand new. We didn't know how these games worked and couldn't break them down as quickly, didn't even have frame data at the start (until Somberness took the time to find it), and a lot of our best players at first weren't exclusive to these games.

Kenshi was late DLC and therefore people didn't start figuring him out nearly as early. Eventually even Dizzy had a Kenshi, Forever King had a Kenshi, lots of top players were able to use him at a high level.

In 2020 our community is in a completely different state. There's a lot more money on the line and competitions have bigger stakes. Enough people have experience with figuring out meta for NRS characters that top players simply pick up whoever they feel is best in order to win. As evidenced by the fact that Sonic, Ninja, Kevo, Kombat etc. have a pool of characters that's included multiple people playing Liu Kang, multiple people playing Johnny Cage, multiple people playing Geras, Sonya, Cassie, and whoever else people have found to be the best.

Please, please stop comparing every single thing to MK9. It's a different time and the community is much different than it was back then.

Yeah but forever king and dizzy weren't as successful didn't use him nearly as much as pig was. FK used mostly Kabal, Cage from what I recall. Just so you know i was not the first user to mention mk 9 here, I noticed you didn't say anything to him....I was elaborating on the point. I was only using it as an analogy not so much a comparison of games...

I don't mind you wanting it to be on topic but at least tell it to everyone bringing up mk 9 and not just me specifically...

We are all new to a game at first not sure what difference this makes. People used multiple characters in other mk games too...

Any player can use any character with enough time, practice put in regardless of tourney level or not but we have to actually see these weaker characters win something if they're to be as viable as people claim them to be. That being said I'm sure majority not just on here but in general would agree that upgraded needs to be nerfed if nrs actually cares to have a balanced game.

 

[AREZ God of War]

Yeah but forever king and dizzy weren't as successful didn't use him nearly as much as pig was. FK used mostly Kabal, Cage from what I recall. Just so you know i was not the first user to mention mk 9 here, I noticed you didn't say anything to him....I was elaborating on the point. I was only using it as an analogy not so much a comparison of games...

I don't mind you wanting it to be on topic but at least tell it to everyone bringing up mk 9 and not just me specifically...

We are all new to a game at first not sure what difference this makes. People used multiple characters in other mk games too...

Any player can use any character with enough time, practice put in regardless of tourney level or not but we have to actually see these weaker characters win something if they're to be as viable as people claim them to be. That being said I'm sure majority not just on here but in general would agree that upgraded needs to be nerfed if nrs actually cares to have a balanced game.

Forever King was a Kung Lao player

 

[MKF30]

Forever King was a Kung Lao player

That's who I meant kung lao not kabal thanks lol. Getting my damn Ks mixed up.

 

[soulking]

How many low or mid tier characters beat top tier characters in fighting games in general? Not that I am familiar with Jacqui's match up chart, but very few, I would presume.

As Crimson Shadow has already pointed out, BioHazard defeated a couple of the best Jacqui players in an online tournament a couple of weeks ago, and Kano is universally regarded as a mid tier character. To paraphrase BioHazard's Tweet, if you put in the work and effort, you can win.

By the way, Jueks has just lost 20:5 to Dragon's Cetrion on stream with the "most broken Mortal Kombat 11 character in history that needs to be deleted".

There are two people in this forum - those who play the game and provide constructive feedback and those who do nothing but criticize the game, which includes making baseless assertions that are not based on reality. So unfortunately while I appreciate your respect, you belong in the latter category.

I DISAGREE.... Cetrion is top 3-5 char, Dragion is Great no matter what he plays. how many top players play Cetrion any way?

 

[Darth Mao]

Topics like this are fun to follow because they generate some real gems

I think that nobody in their right mind really wants her to be deleted from the game, a person who thinks like that shouldn't be considered in a debate. Based on this, I think there is a consensus that she needs adjustments. Either she, or the whole game. If any character has something that limits a large part of the general resources of several characters, this should be reviewed. Maybe the way is to improve the tools of other chars so that they deal with her mixups, I don't know, but something needs to be done. This "leap characters case" remind me a lot of the case of Akuma in Tekken. Demon Flip isn't a common thing, so it took time for the community to adapt to something different like deal with a jump move in a 3D game.

Arguments like "pro players who spend 10+ hours playing the game can handle this, so it's fair" help as much as pumping motor oil in place of own blood. Without saying the "practice more, then you can talk about" argument as if all the practice in the world was going to change the fact that there might be something wrong (this one in particular really made me laugh because the fact that I practice and have less difficulty dealing with her doesn't changes the fact that they need to do something). I understand that our community in particular has a serious problem with aversion to the Practice Mode and the use of this tool really really needs to be encouraged, but it wouldn't be more productive for everyone if some material was made to show how to deal with it instead of just "git gud bruh, she's fine" since you are ok with having a special that leads to 5+ mixups?

Furthermore, instead of naming pros, why don't you show some of your matches for us so we can see how easy it is to deal with even if you don't are a pro? I believe it will be of great help. Especially because the only reason we don't have a "Leroys crisis" is because the players don't want to use her, not because she's ok.

(Anyway, forgiveness for any grammatical error, english isn't my native language)

 

[CrimsonShadow]

but it wouldn't be more productive for everyone if some material was made to show how to deal with it instead of just "git gud bruh, she's fine" since you are ok with having a special that leads to 5+ mixups?

We listed all this stuff in the Jacqui thread weeks ago.

And then it's been posted in to various threads when people ask. I know that I've posted info myself in at least 2-3 different threads. There are Youtube videos as well.

And then you have people playing this MU in tournament, on stream, dealing with it.. So if people couldn't get it from taking 5 mins to browse the Jacqui forum, or from any of the other threads, they could just watch some VOD.

And then one of the best known Upgraded players streams multiple days a week, every week. I turned on his stream 5 mins ago and the first three sets were him losing to an Erron main, and then losing to Getreked's Lao, then Chap's Frost. I mean at some point, people have to take what's right in front of them, or just admit that they're lazy and don't want to learn the MU.

 

[Darth Mao]

We listed all this stuff in the Jacqui thread weeks ago.

And then it's been posted in to various threads when people ask. I know that I've posted info myself in at least 2-3 different threads. There are Youtube videos as well.

And then you have people playing this MU in tournament, on stream, dealing with it.. So if people couldn't get it from taking 5 mins to browse the Jacqui forum, or from any of the other threads, they could just watch some VOD.

And then one of the best known Upgraded players streams multiple days a week, every week. I turned on his stream 5 mins ago and the first set was him losing to an Erron main. I mean at some point, people have to take what's right in front of them, or just admit that they're lazy and don't want to learn the MU.

Ok, again: learning how to play the matchup changes the fact that something needs to be done about it?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Ok, again: learning how to play the matchup changes the fact that something needs to be done about it?

People blew NRS up for 'kneejerk' nerfs in all the previous games; so now, it's time for everybody to mature a bit. Anyone who doesn't know the MU shouldn't be complaining -- they should be in the lab.

And we should be collecting info on how this plays out once most people know the MU. That will show whether nerfs are needed, and if so, to what extent.

People who don't know the character functions saying "just wreck the character she's broke" aren't really contributing helpful information.

 

[Darth Mao]

People blew NRS up for kneejerk nerfs in all the previous games; so now, it's time for everybody to mature a bit. Anyone who doesn't know the MU shouldn't be complaining -- they should be in the lab.

And we should be collecting info on how this plays out once most people know the MU. That will show whether nerfs are needed, and if so, to what extent.

People who don't know the character functions saying "just wreck the character she's broke" aren't really contributing helpful information.

I'm not "blewing" anything or anyone and you aren't answering me. As I said before, I practice (rn, for example) and the fact that I practice doesn't magically change the game and all characters start to have tools to deal with something... Uncommon.

Yes, I agree that the more you know the better you will find out what really needs to be done. But this isn't the debate, but that something needs to be done. So I really don't understand this "GIt GuD bRuH, lEaRn ThE mU. SoNiC sPeNdS 12 hOuRs LaBiNg HoW tO dEaL wItH So YoU" argument when there is a consensus that there is something that deserves special attention

 

[XxSYNDROISxX]

@M2Dave
Completely off topic but to this day I still watch your Freddy videos you seriously were a standard with that character

 

[Roy Arkon]

Here is a video by Mitsuownes showing how you can deal against Jacqui in an actual match by beating this Jacqui player 3-0. Also check out the 08:00 mark in particular, this is most likely gonna shock you.

 

[Darth Mao]

"how you can deal against Jacqui in an actual match"

Leap attempts - (punished - full combo punished)
1st fight: 13(2-0)
2nd fight: 14(2-0)
3rd fight: 15(1-0)

Really good stuff, now we learn how to not punish -14 and -17 moves in an actual match (or punish with a powerful single jab) and let our opponent super abuse a tool the whole set.

Thank you for your effort

 

[thlityoursloat]

Here is a video by Mitsuownes showing how you can deal against Jacqui in an actual match by beating this Jacqui player 3-0. Also check out the 08:00 mark in particular, this is most likely gonna shock you.

LOL I actually just beat this guy with Jax yesterday,
Will upload the match.

 

[Hellbringer]

LOL I actually just beat this guy with Jax yesterday,
Will upload the match.

With jax?? Didnt this character need buffs with all his reactable staggers?

 

[Roy Arkon]

"how you can deal against Jacqui in an actual match"

Leap attempts - (punished - full combo punished)
1st fight: 13(2-0)
2nd fight: 14(2-0)
3rd fight: 15(1-0)

Really good stuff, now we learn how to not punish -14 and -17 moves in an actual match (or punish with a powerful single jab) and let our opponent super abuse a tool the whole set.

Thank you for your effort

He still won 3-0, and you clearly skipped the Fatal Blow-Ground Pound part at the 08:00 mark like I've mentioned earlier. Here is a punish for ya.

 

[Darth Mao]

He still won 3-0, and you clearly skipped the Fatal Blow-Ground Pound part at the 08:00 mark like I've mentioned earlier. Here is a punish for ya.

What? ROFL. Yeah, he still won 3-0 without doing anything special like... Punishing -17~-20 moves.

Bro, just to know if we're on the same page, do you know what a punish really is? If the answer is "yes", then explain to me how he managed to punish -17 with a 20f FB? I'm curious why the game showed only "Reversal" instead of "Reversal Punish".

Please explain