EVERYONE play as Liu Kang!

[SOULWARRIOR 71K]

Remember I destroyed you with A list in MKX?

I don’t remember you at all.

 

[NaCl man]

Show us where the bad man hurt you.

 

[SwiftEagle]

I don’t remember you at all.

You ruined the joke. But yea, you beat me several times in ranked in MKX with Takeda. Not recently, like 1 or 2 years back.

 

[cavemold]

Everyone want lui kang fighting fast lighting ! Ya! Everyone lui Lang fighting ! Sing long guys

 

[cavemold]

Show us where the bad man hurt you.

Right in my F4!!

 

[cavemold]

Lets nerf Liu Kang so we can move on to another character and bitch about so it gets nerfed too.

Right when inj3 come out

 

[Edmund]

you know NRS kinda has it rough because WB will probably tell them to cater to casuals, but NRA clearly wants to make a more competitive game, so they have to find away to remove the things that seem unfair to most people who don’t understand what’s happening. It happened to scorpion’s teleport, but they didn’t compensate in other areas to make up for it


To be honest it’s probably really difficult for them to please everyone

 

[kcd117]

Imo all of the 9 frame mids kinda break the game.

The simple fact that the characters that have one don't go through the same mind game the others have to to take back their turn makes it way easier for them to apply their games.

NRS has to decide if they are gonna slow all of them down to 11-13 range or gonna nerf the half-functional-brain-cell-tier -2ish pokes and staggers to make everyone play MK11 effectively. This change alone would normalize the top tier and buff the low tier more than any specific buff to their kits ever will.

Liu happens to have two 9 frame mids that are basically 50/50 confirmable staggers (one is an advancing normal that KBs), a +3 auto shimmy advancing 7 frames high string that recovers on whiff at the speed of light, two KB throws (and one of them loops), low hitting fireballs for guaranteed chip, fast advancing special, ridiculous wave dash speed and huge dmg on every touch with guaranteed oki.

Very few characters can compete with him from far, no character can compete with him up close.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Completely agree, MKX Liu was broke AF, MK11 liu not so much just very strong in this meta and has safe options for everything but footsie.

To show what is actually broke is NinjaKilla using MKX kang:

The neutral in MKX looks so wacky compared to MK11. Makes you realize how much stuff you could throw out just because you could cancel it on block or get in instantly with a run button.

 

[scrubjesus111]

F4 needs to be 13+ frames. Take away his amplify on both low and high Fireball.
Pressure character doesnt need to have all the tools in the game and to be best in pressure and best in zoning. Take something away from his Flying Dragon Kick.
He also not need KBs on throws.
His FB needs to be balanced as well.
And give him something, so he is proper balanced.

Haha you’re tripping man

 

[thlityoursloat]

The only stupid thing about LK is that he has a KB on both grabs and that his hitboxes are deceptively gigantic. 12 and f43 need to have their hitbox area to not be a giant dome around him, that's it. Do that and I'm happy.
He also has no business zoning this well but whatever.

 

[scrubjesus111]

I say just make his F4 -10 on block keep F43 -7 and turn F4 from 9f to 10/11 frame startup.

I don't think the +3 on 12 is broke, they are both highs and has to press follow up within 3f to jail into a poke and 1f to jail into F4/B1 if it was changed to 11f F4 there would be a 1f gap for 7f starters To interrupt even if kang did it in a just frame.

Just making F4 unsafe and slower will force LK's to use all of his tools instead of always relying on F4 mix and reduce layers from it as well.

The most needed Nerf to kang imo is not the F4 its his hurtbox after throw/fireballs making him nearly invulnerable because he leans back. So when you make the read and go to D2 him after throwing some character wiff and get punished for punishing. But I have no issue with F4 being nerfed to 11f but I wouldn't like 12 getting a Nerf. I use WSL as of two weeks ago after the buffs and that would hurt that variation in many ways. I use F4 but not as often as 12/B1/F3/B3 & 212.

Everyone should pick up WSL because after the Nerf to F3333 and buffs to Wu Shi he gets great damage off every string with fire buff and there are great setups for it notibly B124(canceled on 2) is safe ish on block -9 and other reliable safe options on knockdown.
I also think all of his corner combos not working on females sucks and hope they fix hitboxes across the board. Almost every character has hitbix issues that I know of.

I’m not sure you understand the jailing issue with Kang. If his d1 hits (not blocked) then opponent is forced to stand-block the 12 which is plus 3 on block. This adds immensely to his pressure to keep his turn and keep you blocking/guessing.

Annoying to me personally is that the 12 is effortless to jail off of down 1 which has above average hit advantage for a d1 at 12f, so LK players’ lives are even easier. Take other chars like Johnny into the lab and try to jail off of his d1 to see the difference

EDIT: nevermind I saw your godlike post on countering Liu Kang you obviously understand it lmao

 

[lordlosh]

The only stupid thing about LK is that he has a KB on both grabs and that his hitboxes are deceptively gigantic. 12 and f43 need to have their hitbox area to not be a giant dome around him, that's it. Do that and I'm happy.
He also has no business zoning this well but whatever.

He also has no business aving 2 throw KBs, that each do 310 damage, which is completely ridiculous and broken. And the requirement for his KBs are joke easy.
He also has no business to have the best mid, with great range, insane hitbox range, he will hit you even if you jump, and its a f**** 9f. And the moment his bar drop below 30%, its over for you, no matter how much of a life lead you have over him.
There isnt any other character that can steal so many round with his FBs. Its 415 unbreakable damage if he touches you just once. And if you somehow manage to stay alive, he push you 10 meter away, and he will zone your a** to death. And you cant do a sh*.

At Pro Level its just not fair for the opponent.
In terms for the opponent to win, he needs to outplay you completely, otherwise its uphill battle.
Its the way the character its build.
Lets land this FB and steal the round. In that time you need 1 combo, to trigger 2 out of 3 amplified Bicycle Kick and you need 1 more combo, to trigger 310+ damage on your next Bicycle Kick. But if this was his only KBs, it wouldnt be a problem. But he need just a wrong guess of a throw and hop 310 damage on his both throws. His other Kbs in his F4 its landing on will.
At worst for him he will land atleast 3 KBs and a FB. And at high level this is a completely uphill battle for your opponent.
Other character with good Kb and FB is Jax. But Jax zoning is bad, and his string outside of his KB do insanely low damage.
Cassie for example was a strong character before the balance patch, but she doesnt have anything overpowered about her. She was the definition of a strong, but balanced character, that require huge skill to shine at top level. She had like 1 useful KBs, that was a solo move with not much damage on it, and a bad FB in terms of landing.
Most Pro players complain about Liu Kang high Damage and that everytimes he touch you, no matter how its 220+ damage. And obviously insanely amount of easy to set KBs and FBs.

I also think FB as a whole needs to be reworked. The idea right now its pretty st*. You are punishing the player, that doing better in the round and drop opponent life bar. This is pretty dumb. Just as KBs on throw for escape failed. You are punishing a player, for doing fast reaction and teching a throw. How dumb is that?

 

[Inzzane_79]

…………………. This is pretty dumb. Just as KBs on throw for escape failed. You are punishing a player, for doing fast reaction and teching a throw. How dumb is that?

If you see "escape failed" it means you did NOT tech the throw btw

 

[lordlosh]

Escape failed mean you tech the throw, but you got the wrong direction .... Just like what i said you get punished for being fast in reaction and tech the throw. Yep you guess wrong and you are F*.

 

[M2Dave]

Cassie for example was a strong character before the balance patch, but she doesnt have anything overpowered about her. She was the definition of a strong, but balanced character, that require huge skill to shine at top level. She had like 1 useful KBs, that was a solo move with not much damage on it, and a bad FB in terms of landing.

Pre-patch EX up glow kick, a safe special move that switched sides and created massive push back on block, was better than any move Liu Kang currently has. I recall an early tournament set between Gross and DJT in which Gross zoned DJT the whole match. DJT would corner Gross, sometimes even multiple times a round, but he would simply reverse sides and continue zoning. There is a very good reason Sonic Fox won EVO with this character and why NRS nerfed the EX up glow kick dramatically.

To remain on topic, I think Liu Kang is obviously a top tier character. However, something just as obvious is that the community needs a boogie man and someone to complain about, which is why I find lots of comments in this thread and all over social media absurd and hyperbolical.

 

[Wigy]

Liu's KBs are a case example of how NRS did not put enough weight into them for balance.

If you're playing devil's advocate you can maybe say Liu kangs normals specials etc are the same balance wise as other characters. But those characters often have 1 or 2 viable KBs not like 5.

At that point balance is off and it will fly under the radar cause it's not his base tools.

 

[Juggs]

Liu Kang is very strong, but he doesn’t need to change. We don’t need anymore nerfs, just buffs. Make everyone great again.

But that is a long way away. Hopefully no more balance patches for the rest of the year.

 

[Wigy]

Liu Kang is very strong, but he doesn’t need to change. We don’t need anymore nerfs, just buffs. Make everyone great again.

But that is a long way away. Hopefully no more balance patches for the rest of the year.

For real?

Why would you want that? Legitimately.

What would be wrong with a patch at the end of the month? Aside from a few characters it didn't change much with the last and we waited 4 months. You think this game will survive with patches that small and staggered

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I’m not sure you understand the jailing issue with Kang. If his d1 hits (not blocked) then opponent is forced to stand-block the 12 which is plus 3 on block. This adds immensely to his pressure to keep his turn and keep you blocking/guessing.

Annoying to me personally is that the 12 is effortless to jail off of down 1 which has above average hit advantage for a d1 at 12f, so LK players’ lives are even easier. Take other chars like Johnny into the lab and try to jail off of his d1 to see the difference

EDIT: nevermind I saw your godlike post on countering Liu Kang you obviously understand it lmao

I'm glad you liked it. Yeah his jailing from D1 is very similar to Scorpions 21 which also jails from pokes and is plus 2 on block and plus 19 on hit. Its definitely good and powerful but on block there is a 3f window to jail into D1 and 1f window for the kang to jail into F4/B1 to stop a 7f starter.
If I'm not mistaken he had it before the patch it was just harder to do now it has a 5f window to jail into 12 from D1 which is fairly easy its the follow up that has to be tight.

 

[Juggs]

For real?

Why would you want that? Legitimately.

What would be wrong with a patch at the end of the month? Aside from a few characters it didn't change much with the last and we waited 4 months. You think this game will survive with patches that small and staggered

Because it doesn’t need one. And yes the game will be perfectly fine. The people who complain constantly don’t stick around anyway, regardless of how many patches there are.

 

[deathstroke187]

Because it doesn’t need one. And yes the game will be perfectly fine. The people who complain constantly don’t stick around anyway, regardless of how many patches there are.

wait you think the pros doesnt complain about balance and wanting pathces ? i guess you never went on their discords.

 

[Vhozite]

We don’t need anymore nerfs, just buffs. Make everyone great again

Has this ever happened in any FG video game that you know of?

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Because it doesn’t need one. And yes the game will be perfectly fine. The people who complain constantly don’t stick around anyway, regardless of how many patches there are.

I agree we don't need any nerfs any time soon but I would like hitboxes and hurtboxes fixed across the board. Besides moves wiffing when they shouldn't I don't like certain characters being immune to punish after throwing (Liu Kang) or JIKs wiffing through body on crossover on specific characters.
Kitanas Highborn is obviously good but razors should work on both sides.
Raiden's F1 shouldn't wiff through opponents heads.
Moves shouldn't wiff crouch blocking opponents (highs/mids)
Certain auto shimmy's/specials lean the character back making them invulnerable to punish for example Shangs 11 makes Cassie F4 wiff.
I hope stuff Like that Is fixed. Maybe way down the road it might be nice for struggling characters to get some help though (Kano, Raiden, Kotal etc)

 

[lordlosh]

Pre-patch EX up glow kick, a safe special move that switched sides and created massive push back on block, was better than any move Liu Kang currently has. I recall an early tournament set between Gross and DJT in which Gross zoned DJT the whole match. DJT would corner Gross, sometimes even multiple times a round, but he would simply reverse sides and continue zoning. There is a very good reason Sonic Fox won EVO with this character and why NRS nerfed the EX up glow kick dramatically.

As good as Cassie was, Liu Kang outzone her with easy. And he can outzone almost anyone. And Cassie was pretty well balanced mixed character. She has drawback, like her FB and lack of high dmg easy to land KBs.

While you cant said the same for Kang.